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  #9981  
Old 13-02-2017, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Comres poll yesterday

CON 41%, LAB 26%, LDEM 11%, UKIP 11%, GRN 4%.

All voters of course.

As to working class, the definition is a bit woolly, and these days would include people in the middle class. The old cloth cap disappeared a long time ago.

What is important, is the hard core of traditional Labour voters, whatever class someone wants to put them in, and that has always been historically around 30%. Some of this group may have drifted, but I don't think they have drifted to UKIP in any meaningful numbers.

Someone just sits in their office chewing on a pen and make those figures up don't they? Whose going to say otherwise? Until the election of course when it becomes clear that pollsters don't know their arse from their elbow anymore.
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  #9982  
Old 13-02-2017, 07:06 PM
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The whole austerity argument,cuts to public services,basically the arguments over everything the Tories have dismantled were lost in the last 2 elections.Corbyn and his team can do a lot better but he would need to work miracles to win those arguments again.The reason they were lost before was because Labour accepted that austerity was ok.It has allowed the Tories to get away with murder and no matter who is in charge there is no coming back from it.They've also managed to lose the immigration argument as well,although I've seen very little effort ever go in to a positive case for immigration from anyone within Labour.Corbyn and the left and socialism is the only hope but it's only a glimmer.
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  #9983  
Old 13-02-2017, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Can I come back to this was looking at the YOUGOV numbers it appears that Labour have now fallen below UKIP in working class voters, thats into third position the Tories lead on 39% Ukip 24% Labour 20%......
Labour now third most popular party among working class voters, poll reveals Corbyns Labour is fecked.

Labour is now the third most popular party among working class voters, a new poll has revealed, as the party faces a close-run battle with Ukip to hold on to one of its key seats in the north. Research undertaken by YouGov found that Labour ranks behind Ukip and the Conservatives among lower-income voters for what could be the first time in the party's history. It came as one of Jeremy Corbyn's closest allies called Ukip voters in Stoke "toe-rags ... who nick your bike" ahead of a by-election vote later this month.

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  #9984  
Old 13-02-2017, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
The whole austerity argument,cuts to public services,basically the arguments over everything the Tories have dismantled were lost in the last 2 elections.Corbyn and his team can do a lot better but he would need to work miracles to win those arguments again.The reason they were lost before was because Labour accepted that austerity was ok.It has allowed the Tories to get away with murder and no matter who is in charge there is no coming back from it.They've also managed to lose the immigration argument as well,although I've seen very little effort ever go in to a positive case for immigration from anyone within Labour.Corbyn and the left and socialism is the only hope but it's only a glimmer.
Corbyn is a numpty heaven help us if anybody is foolish enough to think him and his cronies can run the country well be even more in bloody debt tan we are now they couldn't run a piss up in a brewery
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  #9985  
Old 13-02-2017, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
Corbyn is a numpty heaven help us if anybody is foolish enough to think him and his cronies can run the country well be even more in bloody debt tan we are now they couldn't run a piss up in a brewery
Being even more in debt is a million times better than the current situation with the NHS in crisis,care for the elderly being privatised and a shambles,social care in a mess,education underfunded,emergency services underfunded,councils being underfunded,banks running the country,tax avoidance being off the scale,poverty on the increase,homelessness on the increase,prisons overcrowded and a refusal to take refugees from war torn countries that we've helped create and arm.Good times.
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  #9986  
Old 13-02-2017, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
Being even more in debt is a million times better than the current situation with the NHS in crisis,care for the elderly being privatised and a shambles,social care in a mess,education underfunded,emergency services underfunded,councils being underfunded,banks running the country,tax avoidance being off the scale,poverty on the increase,homelessness on the increase,prisons overcrowded and a refusal to take refugees from war torn countries that we've helped create and arm.Good times.
The problem is simple... even if Labours policies are credible, Corbyn is not.

So either find someone who can actually lead the party whilst delivering those same policies or find policies that do appeal to the electorate that are compatible with Labours values
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  #9987  
Old 13-02-2017, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
The problem is simple... even if Labours policies are credible, Corbyn is not.

So either find someone who can actually lead the party whilst delivering those same policies or find policies that do appeal to the electorate that are compatible with Labours values
This is the heart of it for me.
Corbyn is simply not seen as credible by huge swathes of the electorate. He can't even taken many loyal Labour Party members with him.
His is hugely popular with students, people still fighting the battles of the seventies and various yoghurt knitters. He has zero appeal for Basildon man, or Mondeo man, or whatever the stereotype is these days. They just see him as mumbling old tramp, with little relevance to their lives.
He's got to go, if Labour is in anyway serious about returning to power.
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  #9988  
Old 13-02-2017, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post

Corbyn represented a real shift, hope for people. In my CLP I see right centrists banging on that labour policies don't affect "us" (they mean then), we are here to help others. It shows the bubble they live in where they are so privileged they don't know anyone in need on a personal level.

Now hate Corbyn all you want, but if the right centrists win it will smash that hope, leave labour unelectable and see them help push society further and further to the right. Be careful for what you wish for.
Corbyn's been hanging around pedalling his low level agitation for f*cking decades. He's not new. He wasn't even new when he was new.
Oh, for a charistmatic socialist leader. It's sure as f*ck not Corbyn.
He quite clearly hasn't caught the imagination of the wider public, and he was never going to. McDonnell is Corbyn's Bannon, and people know it.

By all means champion socialism, but not with this hopeless donkey as figurehead. It does not advance your cause, which is the cause of ordinary working people. The longer he is there, the longer they suffer.
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  #9989  
Old 13-02-2017, 11:57 PM
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Again talk about not seeing the wood for the trees. The centrist right of labour will attempt to destroy any socialist leader and discredit them. The media, by and large, will be on side to assist them.

The alternative currently in labour is more failed right centrism.
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  #9990  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Again talk about not seeing the wood for the trees. The centrist right of labour will attempt to destroy any socialist leader and discredit them. The media, by and large, will be on side to assist them.

The alternative currently in labour is more failed right centrism.
Do you think you might attract a little more support on this thread if you weren't so f*cking patronising?
You don't really even bother to read the posts of others. Even if they are members of your own party.
You seem to think you're the only person in the world that's in on the media bias.
It's exactly why a strong and charismatic leader is needed. If anyone's being defeatist, it's you, coming out with stuff like that.
Corbyn needs to be put out to grass. He's been persevered with, but he's clearly not the answer. If you want to spend the next decade pissing in the wind, go ahead. You're giving the Tories a free ride.

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  #9991  
Old 14-02-2017, 12:39 AM
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This is like Damo thread - a lot of heresay leading to a witch hunt against an honorable and decent player

If I was under 35, I would vote Corbyn - change is needed and much better than a UKIP protest vote. He's 3 years younger than Trump but the media redicule him as a dinosaur
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  #9992  
Old 14-02-2017, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
Do you think you might attract a little more support on this thread if you weren't so f*cking patronising?
You don't really even bother to read the posts of others. Even if they are members of your own party.
You seem to think you're the only person in the world that's in on the media bias.
It's exactly why a strong and charismatic leader is needed. If anyone's being defeatist, it's you, coming out with stuff like that.
Corbyn needs to be put out to grass. He's been persevered with, but he's clearly not the answer. If you want to spend the next decade pissing in the wind, go ahead. You're giving the Tories a free ride.
So who is this strong and charasmatic leader you're talking about?
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  #9993  
Old 14-02-2017, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
So who is this strong and charasmatic leader you're talking about?
Why don't you go look for one?

I'll start you off... it's not Corbyn and it's not Abbott. You can work your way through the rest
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  #9994  
Old 14-02-2017, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
Why don't you go look for one?

I'll start you off... it's not Corbyn and it's not Abbott. You can work your way through the rest
I'm not the one saying Corbyn has to go. I have said though that due to decades of Kinnock and Blair and their like, the pool of socialist MPs is tiny. At present, due to leadership PLP rules and the rights control of the apparatus the choice is between Corbyn and right centrism.
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  #9995  
Old 14-02-2017, 09:34 AM
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His is hugely popular with students, people still fighting the battles of the seventies and various yoghurt knitters.
poor CR and Cdm
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  #9996  
Old 14-02-2017, 09:54 AM
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poor CR and Cdm
I'll knit your yoghurt
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  #9997  
Old 14-02-2017, 11:31 AM
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I'm definitely still fighting the battles of the 70s. Just need a student for the set.
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  #9998  
Old 14-02-2017, 11:41 AM
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So who is this strong and charasmatic leader you're talking about?
Keir Starmer seems to speak well ...
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Old 14-02-2017, 11:49 AM
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Keir Starmer seems to speak well ...
Blimey, you're brave.

Looking forward to the Keir Starmer isn't a Socialist rant.
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Old 14-02-2017, 11:54 AM
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