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  #9941  
Old 13-02-2017, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
That's the thing about a lot of the centrists and right of the party, they are stuffed full of careerists. Their hatred of the left and socialist politics defines them far more than their own politics, with hardly a principle between them.

Progress and the right in my CLP are stuffed full of upper middle class professionals and hipsters, and it's where Owen Smith got his main support base from.
You realise im from working class New Addington stock and an ex soldier ? Man you are so fu..ked up and brainwashed its almost funny ..I cant believe you have swallowed such a load of old shite.. The more diverse any party is the better it will be..Which is why your narrow mind will never expand beyond a 6th form common room and people like you will never get power. Blinkered assholes all of you..
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  #9942  
Old 13-02-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Head in the sand. Yeah failing centrist politics, the Tories would be shitting themselves
You're right, hold the current course. You've got the Tories right where you want them.

Oh.
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  #9943  
Old 13-02-2017, 11:41 AM
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Seriously, after Corbyn has rolled over and had his tummy tickled by May, how can anyone back this joke of a leader?
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  #9944  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by strolling bones View Post
You realise im from working class New Addington stock and an ex soldier ? Man you are so fu..ked up and brainwashed its almost funny ..I cant believe you have swallowed such a load of old shite.. The more diverse any party is the better it will be..Which is why your narrow mind will never expand beyond a 6th form common room and people like you will never get power. Blinkered assholes all of you..
And what? You come on here throwing insults about.

I'm also working class, started as an apprentice and my uncle is from Sunderland and in the army. But who gives a shit about your or my background and doesn't make you any less of a bell end.

I can't believe what a load of bull you've swallowed. Failing centrism yeah that's the way to go. The politicians you like in labour have a base in the party from upper middle class types, disproportionately in London. They are trying to piss up the wall the largest membership of any party in Europe. They want to destroy labour rather than do what the membership want and if they get their way will go the way of all the other centrist across Europe.

As for narrow minded take a look at yourself you c***
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  #9945  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
You're right on Benn and SDP timings damn it. Don't think it changes the nature of the Labour Party at the time, though. The individual policies in the 83 manifesto were mostly popular, a bit like now, and a bit like now, the attacks therefore came in the form of character assassinations, red scare lunacy, racism and organisational trickery. Plus the CIA.
I agree that the 83 manifesto did contain a number of popular policies, but then went into madness even more so given the times. Trident was just one example with the Cold War still raging it was self indulgent to include it in the manifesto however much it was believed to be the right thing. All the good policies were just going to fail on that alone. However the other side of the policies was funding them Labour had the bailout hanging over them from Callaghan (even if as latter it was proved the numbers were wrong) to put the idea that borrowing to fund the policies was the way forward was near impossible to sell to the electorate.
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  #9946  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
You're right, hold the current course. You've got the Tories right where you want them.

Oh.
No a party in civil war with the right doing all they can destroy it is unlikely to do well.
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  #9947  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
No a party in civil war with the right doing all they can destroy it is unlikely to do well.
you may not have noticed but the rest of the Labour Party have kept pretty quiet recently. They're letting Corbyn **** it all up without outside help.

If the Labour left had an ounce of sense what they would be doing right now (and pretty much since the last leadership election) is accepting Corbyn is as popular with the electorate as herpes and identifying a replacement who doesn't have the baggage. If they don't do that it's over for the Labour Left for another 30 years.
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  #9948  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
I agree that the 83 manifesto did contain a number of popular policies, but then went into madness even more so given the times. Trident was just one example with the Cold War still raging it was self indulgent to include it in the manifesto however much it was believed to be the right thing. All the good policies were just going to fail on that alone. However the other side of the policies was funding them Labour had the bailout hanging over them from Callaghan (even if as latter it was proved the numbers were wrong) to put the idea that borrowing to fund the policies was the way forward was near impossible to sell to the electorate.
You're never gonna agree with EMG or me. But I would still rather a right centrist Labour Party than a Tory one. In the current times I think it will do even worse though and give the door open to the right of the Tories and UKIP.

The biggest membership of any party in Europe could have been galvanised to make a massive difference. Instead the right launched a leadership election a year after Corbyn got in, undermined him at every turn and colluded with the press. They didn't even give things a chance.
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  #9949  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
You're never gonna agree with EMG or me. But I would still rather a right centrist Labour Party than a Tory one. In the current times I think it will do even worse though and give the door open to the right of the Tories and UKIP.

The biggest membership of any party in Europe could have been galvanised to make a massive difference. Instead the right launched a leadership election a year after Corbyn got in, undermined him at every turn and colluded with the press. They didn't even give things a chance.
It's always someone else's fault.

Corbyn's decision to side with the Tories over brexit will have far more detrimental impact on the activity of the new members who joined than the civil war did or will have.
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  #9950  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
you may not have noticed but the rest of the Labour Party have kept pretty quiet recently. They're letting Corbyn **** it all up without outside help.

If the Labour left had an ounce of sense what they would be doing right now (and pretty much since the last leadership election) is accepting Corbyn is as popular with the electorate as herpes and identifying a replacement who doesn't have the baggage. If they don't do that it's over for the Labour Left for another 30 years.
They haven't though, and the damage was already done. The leadership election and constant sniping. As said before Mays government would have fallen if her MPs had done the same.

I would have no issue with a socialist alternative leader, but the MPs are so stacked full of right centrists the pool to choose from is tiny. The right could well win and the Labour Party will be screwed. The Tories and UKIP will get on with their policies with a nodding dog and unpopular Labour Party.
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  #9951  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:21 PM
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And what? You come on here throwing insults about.

I'm also working class, started as an apprentice and my uncle is from Sunderland and in the army. But who gives a shit about your or my background and doesn't make you any less of a bell end.

I can't believe what a load of bull you've swallowed. Failing centrism yeah that's the way to go. The politicians you like in labour have a base in the party from upper middle class types, disproportionately in London. They are trying to piss up the wall the largest membership of any party in Europe. They want to destroy labour rather than do what the membership want and if they get their way will go the way of all the other centrist across Europe.

As for narrow minded take a look at yourself you c***
Must be lunchtime soon at trotsky community college ..so pop off to the tuck shop and buy yourself a wagon wheel . Then look up what a wheel is ..lets start you off slowly this week. Next week they might allow you some crayons and to look out of the window. Your introduction to reality cant be rushed.
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  #9952  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
It's always someone else's fault.

Corbyn's decision to side with the Tories over brexit will have far more detrimental impact on the activity of the new members who joined than the civil war did or will have.
Don't agree. I don't agree with all that Corbyn has done by any means. But the damage came well before this. The new members had already been given the cold shoulder by the centre right who have controlled nearly the whole apparatus.
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  #9953  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:23 PM
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Must be lunchtime soon at trotsky community college ..so pop off to the tuck shop and buy yourself a wagon wheel . Then look up what a wheel is ..lets start you off slowly this week. Next week they might allow you some crayons and to look out of the window. Your introduction to reality cant be rushed.
Repeating the same joke over and over. Come on, you can do better than that you bell end now off you go to your anger management class, you naughty boy you
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  #9954  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:28 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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And what? You come on here throwing insults about.

I'm also working class, started as an apprentice and my uncle is from Sunderland and in the army. But who gives a shit about your or my background and doesn't make you any less of a bell end.

I can't believe what a load of bull you've swallowed. Failing centrism yeah that's the way to go. The politicians you like in labour have a base in the party from upper middle class types, disproportionately in London. They are trying to piss up the wall the largest membership of any party in Europe. They want to destroy labour rather than do what the membership want and if they get their way will go the way of all the other centrist across Europe.

As for narrow minded take a look at yourself you c***
The trouble with your analysis is the new membership is highly favoured to the middle class urban sector
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The party is failing to attract those that has most to gain and worse many are being attracted to UKIP.
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  #9955  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:30 PM
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The trouble with your analysis is the new membership is highly favoured to the middle class urban sector
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bingo

Many of whom got out and voted for Corbyn in the last leadership election. Would they again, position on Brexit? Seems a a lot less likely to me. It won't come but a Clive Lewis challenge about now would be seriously interesting.
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  #9956  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:31 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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The trouble with your analysis is the new membership is highly favoured to the middle class urban sector
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The party is failing to attract those that has most to gain and worse many are being attracted to UKIP.
The Labour Party does need to pick up more working class members.

But let's not pretend. The centre right is far worse. Full of upper middle class types who backed owen smith who got a disproportionate amount of support from CLPs in London controlled by professionals.

If the right get their way in labour we will see how well they do against UKIP and the Tories. I think I know the answer.
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  #9957  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:35 PM
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The party is failing to attract those that has most to gain and worse many are being attracted to UKIP.
There are certainly individuals that once might have voted for Labour that are now voting UKIP, but please don't ever mistake these people as traditional Labour voters with traditional Labour values, they are not, and never have been.
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  #9958  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:37 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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It's sad to see people like SE25 disillusioned. The damage from the centre right has stacked up and up. Corbyns mistakes are amplified and the PLP making him as isolated as possible. I think he could have done differently with Brexit but Clive lewis has said he was in a rock and a hard place.
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  #9959  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:41 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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The middle class centre left are interested in Labour because they are the group with interests to protect. Labour needs to find a reason to get the working class in Stoke, Wolverhampton, Medway and Harlow to reconnect with the party. I''m not hearing anything from the centre or centre left of labour that does that. They are hardly going to advocate redistribution when they are among the chief beneficiaries of the current system.
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  #9960  
Old 13-02-2017, 12:46 PM
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Repeating the same joke over and over. Come on, you can do better than that you bell end now off you go to your anger management class, you naughty boy you
Im a happy bellend , because I know you and yours are a busted flush, never to get anywhere the corridors of power. Nothing for me to be angry about, in fact I smile inwardly knowing this. I smile at that, but laugh my tits off at you losing whats left of your brainwashed mind on here . Heb wiped the floor with you ..and you've never recovered have you son ?
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