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  #121  
Old 20-05-2017, 09:23 AM
eaglejez eaglejez is offline
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Perhaps this clarifies the situation, although it is rather confusing
The proposal was kicked into the long grass
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  #122  
Old 20-05-2017, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by grand aigle View Post
So if you spend your entire life pissing up your money, gambling drinking etc etc when the time comes for retirement health care you pay nothing, as you have nothing! If however you've been careful, saved up your money, bought a house and generally scrimped and saved, then the good old government will take away anything over 100k...wow that sounds fair!! NOT!!
Same as every other means test - and also many benefit payments. If you take care of yourself and don't piss whatever money you have on non essentials , most won't need the state to bail them out later
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  #123  
Old 20-05-2017, 09:27 AM
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Comparing care homes fees is like comparing apples and oranges.

It'll vary hugely depending on the person's needs. Some elderly just need support with things like preparing meals, getting dressed etc...so care visits or even a live-in person might be sufficient. For the latter, you'll need a good spare room for the carer to live in, and providing their room and board as part of their package reduces the cost.

But if the elderly person also has medical needs or mental health issues such as dementia, they're then more likely to need a nursing home (cost in Surrey is £1,000+ a week).
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  #124  
Old 20-05-2017, 09:28 AM
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Something needed to be done and I think that attempting to tackle it is better than just kicking the can down the road. However, I agree i think the whole thing needs to be thought through. The huge changes in liability between North and south are a bit silly. Some of the concepts are semsible but it's all about undercooked.
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  #125  
Old 20-05-2017, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
Same as every other means test - and also many benefit payments. If you take care of yourself and don't piss whatever money you have on non essentials , most won't need the state to bail them out later
Are you means tested for medical support if you fall long-term ill in other age brackets?

Last edited by Yoda; 20-05-2017 at 09:33 AM.
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  #126  
Old 20-05-2017, 09:31 AM
Yoda Yoda is offline
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Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
The proposal was kicked into the long grass
When did that occur?

I haven't read anything to suggest it had been dumped by the Tories, until yesterday's manifesto.
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  #127  
Old 20-05-2017, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Are you means tested for medical support if you fall long-term ill in other age brackets?
the medical element of care home bills gets paid by the state irrespective of how much money you have. the logic is that it is the same as getting it on the nhs. the 'problem' is that dementia is not covered by the nhs, irrespective of whether at home or a care home
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  #128  
Old 20-05-2017, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
the medical element of care home bills gets paid by the state irrespective of how much money you have. the logic is that it is the same as getting it on the nhs. the 'problem' is that dementia is not covered by the nhs, irrespective of whether at home or a care home
It's not quite as simple in real life as you've described.

Our relative needed 24/7 medical support and the only way to get that was a nursing home, so she couldn't stay at home.

The nursing home cost £1,100 per week...only £100 paid by the state for medical care. Leaving her/family to fund the rest. In practice, I'd say much more than £100 of her bill was due to her needing medical, qualified support and her 'room and board' costs were considerably less than the £1,000 she was charged.

So the £100, whilst welcome, did feel like a token contribution.

I'd say her medical related costs were probably more like half the bill, and so the families are making up the difference over and above the state grant.

Last edited by Yoda; 20-05-2017 at 10:54 AM.
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  #129  
Old 20-05-2017, 11:00 AM
eaglejez eaglejez is offline
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
When did that occur?

I haven't read anything to suggest it had been dumped by the Tories, until yesterday's manifesto.
Delayed until at least 2020.
Still haven't found any clarification if the clock starts with the first member of the couple
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  #130  
Old 21-05-2017, 10:44 AM
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Andrew Marr putting questions to a Tory on this on his programme today.

Labour guy just came on and said they prefer the cap system, which had received support cross parties before. He agrees with the principle of pooled responsibility for health care, as per the NHS. So that no one, including the elderly, faces a health lottery about the cost of their care.

So elderly could pay up to about to a cap (probably £72K).

I think if this truly is Labour policy, they should immediately make much more noise about it because for many voters it'll be a significant contrast to the Tories one.

Last edited by Yoda; 21-05-2017 at 10:55 AM.
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  #131  
Old 21-05-2017, 10:50 AM
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I'm still unclear why they have rejected the Dilnot proposals, which are recognised as robust, soundly researched and enjoy broad cross party support for this lash up job.
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  #132  
Old 21-05-2017, 10:57 AM
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Nor have they clarified whether the £100k is per person or household.
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  #133  
Old 21-05-2017, 11:31 AM
eaglejez eaglejez is offline
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Andrew Marr putting questions to a Tory on this on his programme today.

Labour guy just came on and said they prefer the cap system, which had received support cross parties before. He agrees with the principle of pooled responsibility for health care, as per the NHS. So that no one, including the elderly, faces a health lottery about the cost of their care.

So elderly could pay up to about to a cap (probably £72K).

I think if this truly is Labour policy, they should immediately make much more noise about it because for many voters it'll be a significant contrast to the Tories one.
as I put on the other thread........

I agree with John McDonnell on Social Care policy
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  #134  
Old 21-05-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Andrew Marr putting questions to a Tory on this on his programme today.

Labour guy just came on and said they prefer the cap system, which had received support cross parties before. He agrees with the principle of pooled responsibility for health care, as per the NHS. So that no one, including the elderly, faces a health lottery about the cost of their care.

So elderly could pay up to about to a cap (probably £72K).

I think if this truly is Labour policy, they should immediately make much more noise about it because for many voters it'll be a significant contrast to the Tories one.
72K cap is the fairer way forward and that amount may encourage insurance companies to produce products to insure against the risk .
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  #135  
Old 21-05-2017, 11:41 AM
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I'm still unclear why they have rejected the Dilnot proposals, which are recognised as robust, soundly researched and enjoy broad cross party support for this lash up job.
I agree, this could grow into a big mistake by the Tories.

Andrew Marr put it well when he said that the govt had expressed an intention to reduce the healthy lottery of how much oldies might end up paying. ( For example, nothing if you pop off with a sudden heart attack, but potentially hundreds of thousands if you survive many years with dementia.)

This has now been ditched and become just raising the bar from £23k to £100k. That hardly addresses the actual issue at all, which is what they themselves were championing only a year ago.
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  #136  
Old 21-05-2017, 11:43 AM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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72K cap is the fairer way forward and that amount may encourage insurance companies to produce products to insure against the risk .
It's fairer overall but it means someone in a house in a terrace in Hartlepool (average terrace price there 72k Rightnove) would have to pay under the £72k cap system but not under Tories. So it still isn't perfect although it will be better for higher earners in say your area or mine.
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  #137  
Old 21-05-2017, 11:43 AM
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72K cap is the fairer way forward and that amount may encourage insurance companies to produce products to insure against the risk .
And that was the Tories proposal!
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  #138  
Old 21-05-2017, 11:54 AM
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And that was the Tories proposal!
I thought it was part of a joint think tank and enquiry commissioned proposal under Cameron .
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  #139  
Old 21-05-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
It's fairer overall but it means someone in a house in a terrace in Hartlepool (average terrace price there 72k Rightnove) would have to pay under the £72k cap system but not under Tories. So it still isn't perfect although it will be better for higher earners in say your area or mine.
Maybe it should be a percentage of your house value upto a maximum of 72k , So everyone pays something .
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  #140  
Old 21-05-2017, 12:19 PM
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Damian Green has said the Tories will not rethink plans to fund social care in England, amid warnings they will go down badly with core Tory voters.

The Work and Pensions Secretary said: "We have set out the policy, which we are not going to look at again."

The Tory manifesto says elderly people requiring care in their own homes would have to meet the cost - but would be allowed to keep £100,000.

But a Tory think tank says it could be the "biggest stealth tax in history".


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