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  #1  
Old 02-12-2014, 11:03 PM
DAS PHANTOM DAS PHANTOM is offline
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Should we be afraid?

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This proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is starting to give me the creeps. Sounds like a lot of nasty deregulation to me and deregulation is probably the agenda I worry about the most when it comes to the Conservative party.

The EU has far stronger regulation than the US and although this will hamper business for people in certain trades, the overarching protection it provides is worth it in my opinion. The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership could potentially compromise EU legislation and make us more like the US.

In general I am not someone who is anti-capitalism or anti-corporation but recognise some of the faults we have in our system. Generally speaking I think it is down to the individual to fix their own problems but we still have to keep a watchful eye on the powers that be as their decisions do affect us all.

Has anyone else heard about this deal and what are your thoughts on the subject? If we could put the tedious partisan bickering aside for one minute and have a genuine discussion on this.
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  #2  
Old 02-12-2014, 11:10 PM
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Sounds like the plot from Continuum , corporations being able to sue governments because of regulation to protect the people is utterly terrifying.
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2014, 11:51 PM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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The key here is that this is being done on our behalf by the EU.

Now I am in no way saying that UKIP would oppose this agreement (sadly I think they would agree with much of it) but the principle of sovereignty is crucial here. This should be a decision for Westminster to make on behalf of the UK, not the EU.

I do not want EU civil servants/politicians negotiating trade agreements that impact on how things are done in the UK.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
The key here is that this is being done on our behalf by the EU.
Really?!?!? What has led you to believe this?

Agree with your point on UKIP, they'd love nothing more than broad-spectrum deregulation. I feel we are dealing with the dark side of the conservative party with regards to this new 'trade' agreement but ultimately I want know more about what we are dealing with here.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:19 AM
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This is a good watch. Now I know it's Russell Brand but the bloke he's interviewing makes some very good and rather disturbing points.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:36 AM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Originally Posted by DAS PHANTOM View Post
Really?!?!? What has led you to believe this?

Agree with your point on UKIP, they'd love nothing more than broad-spectrum deregulation. I feel we are dealing with the dark side of the conservative party with regards to this new 'trade' agreement but ultimately I want know more about what we are dealing with here.

Have you actually read the links you have posted ?

This from the first one (and it is the first sentence of the article proper)

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is a series of trade negotiations being carried out mostly in secret between the EU and US.


So maybe you should put the tedious partisan bickering aside for one minute first ?

This is an agreement between the US and the EU. If you want the UK to be in the EU this is what it is all about.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:37 AM
DAS PHANTOM DAS PHANTOM is offline
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Have you actually read the links you have posted ?

This from the first one (and it is the first sentence of the article proper)

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is a series of trade negotiations being carried out mostly in secret between the EU and US.


So maybe you should put the tedious partisan bickering aside for one minute first ?

This is an agreement between the US and the EU. If you want the UK to be in the EU this is what it is all about.
Basically you have taken the term 'EU' and have interpreted it as something seperate from ourselves. Unfortunately the opening statement from the Independent is somewhat vague so it's understandable. The main proponents of this trade deal include incumbants of the current US and UK governments (the UK is in the EU). The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is primarily an Anglo-American concoction (as most of these clandestine corporate ventures tend to be). Ofcourse there will be powerful figures in other EU countries that will be strong supporters of this but there will be strong opposition comming from the EU aswell.

The issue is not black and white, it is complex with far reaching consequences, it's important we learn more about it.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:47 AM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Originally Posted by DAS PHANTOM View Post
Basically you have taken the term 'EU' and have interpreted it as something seperate from ourselves. Unfortunately the opening statement from the Independent is somewhat vague so it's understandable. The main proponents of this trade deal include incumbants of the current US and UK governments (the UK is in the EU). The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is primarily an Anglo-American concoction (as most of these clandestine corporate ventures tend to be). Ofcourse there will be powerful figures in other EU countries that will be strong supporters of this but there will be strong opposition comming from the EU aswell.

The issue is not black and white, it is complex with far reaching consequences, it's important we learn more about it.

WTF ?

The EU is negotiating this with the US. All the details you list have been agreed by the EU including telling member states that it will cost them jobs.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:07 PM
DAS PHANTOM DAS PHANTOM is offline
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WTF ?

The EU is negotiating this with the US. All the details you list have been agreed by the EU including telling member states that it will cost them jobs.
Yes I understand all that mate, I'm not disputing it but you seem to be comming at it from the angle that this is something the EU is doing to the UK and our government is getting legged over because we're stuck in the bad old EU.

What I'm saying to you is that some over the most powerful figures in the UK government are the biggest proponents of this deal and in my view that's not a good thing.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DAS PHANTOM View Post
Basically you have taken the term 'EU' and have interpreted it as something seperate from ourselves. Unfortunately the opening statement from the Independent is somewhat vague so it's understandable. The main proponents of this trade deal include incumbants of the current US and UK governments (the UK is in the EU). The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is primarily an Anglo-American concoction (as most of these clandestine corporate ventures tend to be). Ofcourse there will be powerful figures in other EU countries that will be strong supporters of this but there will be strong opposition comming from the EU aswell.

The issue is not black and white, it is complex with far reaching consequences, it's important we learn more about it.
The French and the Germans are apparently having second thoughts. It seems this is very much being pushed by Cameron.
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  #11  
Old 03-12-2014, 02:13 PM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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The French and the Germans are apparently having second thoughts. It seems this is very much being pushed by Cameron.
If France and Germany are having second thoughts then you have nothing to worry about because they will simply veto this agreement. Problem solved.
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Old 03-12-2014, 03:40 PM
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The French and the Germans are apparently having second thoughts. It seems this is very much being pushed by Cameron.
Exactly
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Old 03-12-2014, 03:41 PM
DAS PHANTOM DAS PHANTOM is offline
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If France and Germany are having second thoughts then you have nothing to worry about because they will simply veto this agreement. Problem solved.
Is that how it works? Could you explain the process in more detail?
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:38 PM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Is that how it works? Could you explain the process in more detail?

Are you sure you know what the EU actually is ?
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:59 PM
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Are you sure you know what the EU actually is ?
Explain it to us...
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Old 29-05-2015, 04:30 PM
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There's been so little about this deal in the news that it's been difficult to post any updates.

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The bottom line is I'd rather have decent consumer protection and environmental regulation over a bit of extra chump change.

There's a lot of serious issues which need to be openly discussed with regards to TTIP, we've got to try and raise awareness over the whole thing as I feel it is important.
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Old 29-05-2015, 04:40 PM
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It's been so secretive that we have to be worried.
Cameron was very dismissive when I wrote to him to express well-founded concerns about TTIP, particularly giving corporations the ability to take actions against democratically elected governments when they made decisions that the corporations didn't like.
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Old 29-05-2015, 04:41 PM
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The section 'Beyond ISDS' is particularly important, the EU's safety standards are much higher than those in the US. TTIP would look to deregulate EU safety standards to be more in line with the current US standards. If this were to happen, it would in my view be very bad for people in the UK and continental Europe:

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Old 29-05-2015, 04:44 PM
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Old 29-05-2015, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Selhurst300 View Post
It's been so secretive that we have to be worried.
Cameron was very dismissive when I wrote to him to express well-founded concerns about TTIP, particularly giving corporations the ability to take actions against democratically elected governments when they made decisions that the corporations didn't like.
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