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View Poll Results: Who do you want to win in the UFC tonight?
Tito 'The Huntington Beach Badboy' Ortiz 3 60.00%
Ken ' The Worlds Most Dangerous Man' Shamrock 2 40.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 27-02-2006, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Halftime Gold
Shoguns injury looked nasty from the gif I saw, pretty routine leg takedown by Coleman but somehow while trying to break his fall Shogun's elbow badly twisted to the side. There was chaos after that aswell with Coleman pushing the ref away when he stepped in to stop it then Silva and Baroni getting into the ring with blows suposidly exchanged.

At least Pride seem to have found themselves a new top level heavyweight in Overeem. Will be interesting to see the match as like I said I think it was only his lack of condictioning that held him back at 205 and surely having to cut as much weight as he did at that level had to have an effect on that.
You would have thought Shogun would have had years of training in how to fall. He was just asking for an injury with the way he went down. (He almost did the same thing on the first slam) And Coleman is just a madman, throwing the ref around is a serious no-no. Not sure if he losing some cash for that one. That guy has serious blinders on when he fights. I guess Kharitonov hurt his shoulder at some point in this fight and had trouble getting a good defense in.
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  #82  
Old 27-02-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funk Butter
That guy has serious blinders on when he fights.
Roid rage.

And how about poor ol' Pedro Rizzo? Is he done?
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  #83  
Old 27-02-2006, 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by BringBackSasa
Roid rage.

And how about poor ol' Pedro Rizzo? Is he done?
Rizzo is definitely in trouble. I doubt Pride will have him back, I suppose he can go back to UFC, but I'm not sure how much he has left for them.
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  #84  
Old 27-02-2006, 04:14 PM
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Not many fights out there for AA (assuming he re-signs for the UFC). Eventually, they might have to dig up Ricco & Rizzo for rematches. The first AA v Rizzo was such a war (what a one-two!) I wouldn't mind seeing them go again, but it would be hard to justify another title shot for Pedro.
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  #85  
Old 27-02-2006, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BringBackSasa
Not many fights out there for AA (assuming he re-signs for the UFC). Eventually, they might have to dig up Ricco & Rizzo for rematches. The first AA v Rizzo was such a war (what a one-two!) I wouldn't mind seeing them go again, but it would be hard to justify another title shot for Pedro.
Well, the problem is Ricco Rodriguez is well over 300 pounds now and fighting on the fringes, don't look for him again.
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  #86  
Old 28-02-2006, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Funk Butter
You would have thought Shogun would have had years of training in how to fall. He was just asking for an injury with the way he went down. (He almost did the same thing on the first slam) And Coleman is just a madman, throwing the ref around is a serious no-no. Not sure if he losing some cash for that one. That guy has serious blinders on when he fights. I guess Kharitonov hurt his shoulder at some point in this fight and had trouble getting a good defense in.
I'v noticed Shogun does tend to fall a little awkardly sometimes however I'd say that 99 times out of 100 he'd not have injuried himself in that situation. I think you maybe right about Kharitonov, Overeems first takedown landed him right on his sholder(didnt he injury one of them verus Werdum?) and after that he didnt really make any atempt to escape the side mount. That maybe selling Overeem a little short I spose as when ontop he isnt easy to reverse and few if any fighters throw better knees from that position.
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  #87  
Old 01-03-2006, 02:34 PM
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Having seen a slowmo of the takedown Kharitonov definately looks like he injuried his sholder although Overeem can IMHO take alot more credit for that than Coleman can, he got an arm under his leg and drove him sholder first into the mat.
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  #88  
Old 06-03-2006, 12:50 AM
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BJ Penn losing to St. Pierre again shows the problem with the UFC judging if you ask me, not only is 15 mins far too short but the latter was able to win merely by being ontop on the ground dispite taking far more punishment and making no real atempt to finish the fight.
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  #89  
Old 06-03-2006, 01:56 AM
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I would agree but I won money from a mate on GSP (and Franklin). Puts me 3-0 with him after Chuck/Randy 3, he must hate me. And he's going to hate me even more after the Hughes/Gracie fight. He's picked Gracie.
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  #90  
Old 06-03-2006, 02:16 AM
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The problem is IMHO that their trying to judge to boxing style criteria in order to try and look more legitimate. The difference is that most point scoring in boxing does come from an effort to win the fight where as if you place such massive weight on the wrestling aspect you end up rewarding tatics that make no effort at all to do so.

Last edited by Halftime Gold; 06-03-2006 at 02:19 AM.
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  #91  
Old 06-03-2006, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Halftime Gold
The problem is IMHO that their trying to judge to boxing style criteria in order to try and look more legitimate. The difference is that most point scoring in boxing does come from an effort to win the fight where as if you place such massive weight on the wrestling aspect you end up rewarding tatics that make no effort at all to do so.
Here are the rules that come down from the Nevada State Athletic Commission:

13:46-24A.13 Judging

(a) All bouts will be evaluated and scored by three judges.

(b) The 10-Point Must System will be the standard system of scoring a bout. Under the 10-Point Must Scoring System, 10 points must be awarded to the winner of the round and nine points or less must be awarded to the loser, except for a rare even round, which is scored (10-10).

(c) Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense.

(d) Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear in (c) above, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.

(e) Effective striking is judged by determining the total number of legal heavy strikes landed by a contestant.

(f) Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active, threatening guard.

(g) Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler’s attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking ; taking down an opponent to force a ground fight; creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities.

(h) Effective aggressiveness means moving forward and landing a legal strike.

(i) Effective defense means avoiding being struck, taken down or reversed while countering with offensive attacks.

(j) The following objective scoring criteria shall be utilized by the judges when scoring a round;

1. A round is to be scored as a 10-10 Round when both contestants appear to be fighting evenly and neither contestant shows clear dominance in a round;

2. A round is to be scored as a 10-9 Round when a contestant wins by a close margin, landing the greater number of effective legal strikes, grappling and other maneuvers;

3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.

4. A round is to be scored as a 10-7 Round when a contestant totally dominates by striking or grappling in a round.

(k) Judges shall use a sliding scale and recognize the length of time the fighters are either standing or on the ground, as follows:

1. If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round on the canvas, then:
i. Effective grappling is weighed first; and
ii. Effective striking is then weighed

2. If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round standing, then:
1. Effective striking is weighed first; and
2. Effective grappling is then weighed

3. If a round ends with a relatively even amount of standing and canvas fighting, striking and grappling are weighed equally.

So let me take it individually:

(e) Effective striking is judged by determining the total number of legal heavy strikes landed by a contestant.
Total number I gotta give to GSP. Penn had the eyepoke and uppercut (opening up the nose) in the 1st round, but GSP had the most strikes landed.

(f) Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active, threatening guard.
Gets a little gray here. GSP wins big-time based on the 1st sentence. But the 2nd sorta contradicts the 1st. GSP had all the takedowns (but one), but they ended up with him in Penn's guard. So he had "legal takedowns" but didn't go from standing to mount.

(g) Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler’s attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking ; taking down an opponent to force a ground fight; creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities.
Gotta give GSP this as well. Penn seemed to lose interest in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. GSP had Penn up against the cage on multiple occasions and seemed to be in control when they clinched.

(h) Effective aggressiveness means moving forward and landing a legal strike.
I think GSP has a slight advantage here. This seems to be a little like the previous rule.

(i) Effective defense means avoiding being struck, taken down or reversed while countering with offensive attacks.
Well, this might go to Penn, but its close again. GSP sure didn't have effective defense in the first, but it wasn't a dominant round for Penn either.

All this adds up to exactly what happened, a split decision. Unfortunately, the eyepoke led to a nasty cut and GSP having problems in round 1. That's why he looked way worse than Penn at the end. I don't think its too much of a problem, if Penn sticks with UFC, he'll get the winner of Hughes/St Pierre.
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  #92  
Old 06-03-2006, 08:51 AM
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Yeah under those rules it makes sense although Penn dominated the first more than St, Pierre did the other two rounds for me. My point was that normal takedowns themselves generally(at events not called Pride 31) do not directly result in victory, neither does ground control or backing someone into the cage so they should carry much less weight that effective striking or submission atempts. Combine that with round by round scoring rather than complete fight scoring and your often going to have a winner who never looked like winning the fight any other way.

Last edited by Halftime Gold; 06-03-2006 at 09:02 AM.
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  #93  
Old 06-03-2006, 03:55 PM
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Overall, I prefer the UFC scoring system over pride's. I don't like Henderson/Ninja type results where a guy can dominate the first 15 minutes then loses just because Dan was closer to finishing the fight in the last 5 minute round.

Penn still has to fight Hughes, whatever route it takes. I think they should put him with Karo first (which I can't see him losing), then have the Hughes rematch whatever the result with GSP.

As a sidenote, weren't the fans as rubbish as ever? The USA v Canada thing was a terrible idea. Every time I hear "USA, USA" I can't help thinking 'Team America, •••• Yeah!'.
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Old 06-03-2006, 03:56 PM
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Old 06-03-2006, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BringBackSasa
Overall, I prefer the UFC scoring system over pride's. I don't like Henderson/Ninja type results where a guy can dominate the first 15 minutes then loses just because Dan was closer to finishing the fight in the last 5 minute round.
I'v not seen that much but I agree Pride isnt without its dodgy decisions although less so recently. The biggest problem I have with the UFC rules is that they encourage tactics that are only based on getting the decision not actually trying to beat the opponant, combined with the fear of being fired after a loss I think it results in alot of dull listless fights.
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Old 25-03-2006, 03:01 PM
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Don't know if this has been mentioned already but it's interesting that British fighter Lee Murray who's worked for UFC and was famously stabbed not so long back at some celebrity party in London is the man who is believed to be the mastermind behind the £53million heist the other week.

Lots of other smaller names from the British MMA scene are involved too apparently.
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Old 07-05-2006, 01:10 PM
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Anyone still interested in this thread? A few notable recent fights with Sylvia getting the supprize win verus Arlovski and the first round of the Pride Openweight GP last friday.
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  #98  
Old 07-05-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Halftime Gold
Anyone still interested in this thread? A few notable recent fights with Sylvia getting the supprize win verus Arlovski and the first round of the Pride Openweight GP last friday.
Me! Ive been away on holiday so havent been able to post much, the Arlovski result really suprised me!
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Old 07-05-2006, 09:41 PM
Halftime Gold Halftime Gold is offline
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Halftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietHalftime Gold came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally posted by Dirty Northener
Me! Ive been away on holiday so havent been able to post much, the Arlovski result really suprised me!
Indeed certainly supprized me aswell although he has shown a less than iron jaw in the past. Are you keeping yourself spoiler free for the Pride GP? Great shown I thought with alots of fights that looked like they could be dull or mismatchs really delivering.
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by Halftime Gold
Anyone still interested in this thread? A few notable recent fights with Sylvia getting the supprize win verus Arlovski and the first round of the Pride Openweight GP last friday.
Yeah, Arlovski got sloppy. He popped Sylvia and knocked him down, got a little too anxious, put himself in a bad position, then when they both popped up, Sylvia was able to give him a good strike to the dome.

The Pride show was the best they've had in years. Some overwhelming mismatches and some nice tete-a-tetes. Not one decision, every match was stopped before full time. I've never laughed so hard as when Kohsaka walked straight at Mark Hunt with his hands down and screaming at Hunt to hit him. What a nut.
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