whingers the lot of you

[joyce the voice]

Okay. Good first half, terrible defending at set-pieces, poor second-half display, but some positive signs.
Reaction: as usual moan moan moan. The same old whinging that goes on at Selhurst. Thread after thread on how crap Hargreaves is--but when he's played in position, and from the start, he plays well. Thread after thread about how crap Lampard is--but little on how well he linked up with Cole and Rooney in the first half.

England realy weren't that bad. I mean, did any of you see Italy v 9 men; or Holland (they really aren't that good), or Germany's defending against Costa Rica; or Brazil for two games now? We've started slow, we probably got a lucky break with poor old Owen's injury as now please God we'll play five across the middle, players like Cole and Robinson are out of form but could come good.

The second Swedish goal was inept--but it didn't matter. And, for Christ sake, Joe Cole played pretty well against Paraguay, remember? England will beat Ecuador, who were pathetic today, and they will beat Holland, if that's the way it works out, and I think they can beat Brazil too.

[Eagle El]

...but we still have Crouch!

[jone-zee]

This is a joke right?

[se1eagle]

I'll have some of what he's having

[Eagle El]

Yes, I know it is the lowest form of wit, but that other thread wound me up somewhat!

[jone-zee]

Originally posted by Eagle El
Yes, I know it is the lowest form of wit, but that other thread wound me up somewhat!

Not you mate The originator The one that revels in all failures English.

[joyce the voice]

Why do you think it's a joke? All I've read on the BBS is how bad Hargreaves is--but he played well today. Obviously we'll beat Ecuador. Were you really impressed with Holland? And why can't a five-man midfield with Rooney the lone striker give Brazil a game at least?
And why do you think I revel in England's failures? Because I don't agree with your 'fings-ain't-what-they-used-to-be' Daily Mail reading rubbish?

[David Amsalem]

Judging by the first half, I though we knocked it about nicely and looked comfortable.

Second half was a different story but we'll be able to cut out defending set-pieces.

There is a lot to be positive about.

[limited_edition]

Originally posted by joyce the voice
Obviously we'll beat Ecuador. Were you really impressed with Holland?

But Holland played in a much, much tougher group than ours.

[Lizzy]

I think you are right David - it simply can't be as bad as everyone is saying. It just can't be.

[David Amsalem]

It isn't. Fact is, we conceaded two soft goals. These were errors and occasionally in football this happens.

But bare in mind, we're also on the back of two clean sheets which is impressive. Mistakes like today can be worked on and ironed out. Its not like its been a constant problem.

[Sussex Eagle]

Originally posted by joyce the voice
Obviously we'll beat Ecuador.

Not at all obvious. It's assumed by all and sundry, but the facts don't back it up. The Ecuadorians' performances against Poland and Costa Rica vastly outranked England's against two sides of about the same standard in Paraguay and T&T. They then pretty much laid down for Germany today by resting most of their stars and treating the game as a nothing. Any of the defensive disorganisation we displayed tonight would be severely punished by a side who have looked far better in attack than Sweden. I really hope your stupid attitude (and that of most of the media) towards a side that has recently beaten both Brazil & Argentina in competitive fixtures is not pervading the players' camp, if so we are in real trouble.

[Sussex Eagle]

Originally posted by Lizzy
I think you are right David - it simply can't be as bad as everyone is saying. It just can't be.

And fairies and Father Christmas and God must exist because it would be just horrid if they didn't and just because! Screw reason!

[Lizzy]

exactly!! Do I have to have a reason or can I just not think its all that bad until we have actually been knocked out.

You just never know - it's a daft game. 'Owt can 'appen.

[Sick Bucket]

I missed the first 20 mins but most of what I saw was horrendous, I've been a believer generally but tonight I have my doubts, we're screwed up front, Crouch plus a bunch of knackered players and a 17 yr old.



Gerrald up front with Rooney/Crouch anyone?

[Sussex Eagle]

Originally posted by Sick Bucket
Gerrald up front with Rooney/Crouch anyone?

How about we let him play in his natural position for a whole game just once?

[AJ's right boot]

We were foking awful agaisnt a very very average sweden team! We are going to get hurt agaisnt a better side! end of!

[Lizzy]

guess they might as well all pack up and come home now then.

[AJ's right boot]

Originally posted by Lizzy
guess they might as well all pack up and come home now then.

Agreed!

Ok not really, but something needs to change!!!!!

[RDSdaEAGLE]

I wouldn't consider them very average. They're a good side. Lets be fair, they have a Champions League winning striker playing up front for them (scoring a goal against us in the process), they have Ljungberg who was also in the Champions League final. Two very talented players.

However, England's biggest problem is the ridiculous complacency that they suffer from, which is ultimately Sven's doing. By picking the same core defence, the same core midfield and the same strikers througout almost every friendly and competetive game, he's given the players little to fight for.

Is John Terry REALLY that bothered if he plays poorly? He won't get dropped for Campbell unless there's an injury.

Is Lampard REALLY that dissapointed with not scoring in 3 games from piss easy chances? After all, he's managed to get away with it for 3 games, its unlikely he'll get dropped now!

Beckham's marking at corners was atrocious vs. Sweden...does he fear for his place? Doubt it, he's England captain and is unlikely to get dropped because Sven's hardly ever done it before!

Owen said (before he got injured) that he wasn't going to change his game to compensate for England's midfield failures...would someone with other strikers breathing down his neck REALLY be saying such a thing?

To be fair, Sven has picked a few players who aren't part of this exclusive group of 'mates'. Lennon, Downing and Walcott have been selected in (IMHO) a vain attempt to show the world that Sven isn't just about favourites. Lennon is an excellent example because he completely changed the game for England against Trinidad & Tobago...he didn't even get a look-in vs Sweden. I also think that Sven picked Walcott in order to combat the possible media questioning he would have received had a vastly more experienced player been picked in his place. The media would have asked questions about the selection of his favourite Owen had it been Defoe or AJ sitting on the bench...but the same will not happen with Walcott because of his age.

However its not just a World Cup thing. Look at the way that Defoe took the news that he wouldn't make the squad. It was almost like he assumed he'd be in it...but why? He didn't play enough games for Spurs. The same went for Shaun Wright Philips...he has no-one else to blame for his failure to make the squad than himself and his seemingly selfish need for more money, yet it seems he assumed he'd make the squad.

It seems to me like the honour of playing in such a prestigious competition has gone out of the window. Some players know they'll make the squad no matter what and for as long as that is the case, England will always seem to take games in a lackadaisical manner.

It was interesting that David Pleat (I know, shocking to quote him...) mentioned that Spain's squad had managed to eliminate the cliques that have often been a problem for them. Now, in my opinion, the problem with the England squad at the moment is that it is one big clique, and that won't change even when McLaren gets in charge because after all, he has also had a big say on whom Sven has picked for this World Cup.

I hope England can prove me wrong though.