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  #41  
Old 06-07-2006, 04:56 PM
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I just looked that up, too. There appear to have been games when Shilton played one half, and Clemence the other, as well as one where Joe Corrigan and sunken eyed sexual deviant Jimmy Rimmer shared the gloves and eyeshade.
Gay, carefree times when you could watch the nine o'clock news without football being mentioned once.
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  #42  
Old 06-07-2006, 05:28 PM
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Wouldn't it be nice to have 4 English goalies of that quality today; even John Burridge was better than anything in the Premier league at the moment and he never got a look in?
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  #43  
Old 06-07-2006, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by selhurstparkflyer
Wouldn't it be nice to have 4 English goalies of that quality today; even John Burridge was better than anything in the Premier league at the moment and he never got a look in?
Dont forget Jacko! He should have gone to Mexico in 1970!
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  #44  
Old 06-07-2006, 05:37 PM
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Re: Re: Re: England's Golden Generation

Quote:
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
The reason for that was that the media's claim is that the current squad is the best since 66 and many of those players were still playing 4 years later.

Obviously I assumed that people would pick players while they were at their peak. It's an 18 year old, 1998 vintage Michael Owen that I want coming off the bench as the oipposition begin tire. Not the injury-prone liability we glimpsed this year.

Also, my motive isn't really to say what a great manager Sven was. Just what a load of bollocks this Golden Generation hysteria is. That comment from Alan Shearer above just beggars belief. People really have bought into this idea that football suddenly got twice as good because they renamed the top flight The Premiership and started broadcasting 2 matches live a week.

It's a surprisingly small pool of players that people have picked from so far. Reassuring to see that the massively over-rated Chelsea triumvirate of Terry-Lampard-Cole have mustered null points so far.
I have included both John Terry and Joe Cole. Terry is a fine centre half and has yet to reach his peak. Joe Cole has solved Englands wide left problem and scored the best goal for England this world cup-if he was a Brazillian the media would still be raving about it. He is the only English layer who is not afraid to take defenders on and runs with the ball stuck to his feet. He is the most improved player in the English game at present.
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  #45  
Old 06-07-2006, 06:20 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: England's Golden Generation

Quote:
Originally posted by screamingalice
Joe Cole has solved Englands wide left problem and scored the best goal for England this world cup-if he was a Brazillian the media would still be raving about it. He is the only English layer who is not afraid to take defenders on and runs with the ball stuck to his feet.
Absolute nonsense. Joe Cole stops, does his little step overs and scissors and then totally fails to go past anyone, meanwhile the defence has a nice little break to re-organise. When has he ever run past defenders for England?
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  #46  
Old 06-07-2006, 07:27 PM
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Shilton

A Cole
Ferdinand
Terry
Neville

Waddle
Gascoigne
Robson
Beckham

Lineker
Shearer


subs Seaman, Pearce, Adams, Platt, Owen.
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  #47  
Old 06-07-2006, 07:47 PM
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Good idea EaM. I only have one from the current squad:

GK: Shilton

FB: Sansom
FB: Parker
CB: Walker
CB: Ferdinand

MF: Barnes
MF: Coppell
MF: Robson
MF: Gascoigne

CF: Shearer
CF: Keegan

Subs: Seaman, Butcher, Hoddle, Ince, Lineker
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  #48  
Old 06-07-2006, 07:48 PM
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Stev Coppell should be the manager of this team, shouldn't he?
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  #49  
Old 06-07-2006, 08:06 PM
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GK Shilton
RB Neville
LB Sansome
CB Terry
CB Walker

RM Gerrard
LM Waddle
CM Robson
CM Hoddle

CF Lineker
CF Rooney

Subs Seamen, Ferdinand, A Cole, Gascoigne, Beckham, Keegan, Owen.

Good enough to win this world cup.... Unless Sven is boss that is!!
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  #50  
Old 07-07-2006, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by selhurstparkflyer
Stev Coppell should be the manager of this team, shouldn't he?
I'm seriously not joking when I say he'd be better than McLaren.
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  #51  
Old 07-07-2006, 07:50 AM
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GK: Shilton

FB: Pearce
FB: A. Cole
CB: Terry
CB: Ferdinand

MF: Waddle
MF: Beardsley
MF: Robson
MF: Platt

CF: Lineker
CF: Gascoigne

Subs: Seaman, Sansom, J. Cole, Coppell, Keegan
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  #52  
Old 07-07-2006, 08:24 AM
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This idea of golden generation I guess comes from how "well" English teams have fared in Europe in the past few years and the fact that age profile wise, some of our best players are reaching their optimim age (28?)*.

The Man Utd players won it all under Alex Ferguson (and Man Utd are no longer that force). Chelsea players have made semi's in Europe and have been recognised as world class players by Fifa rankings. Liverpool players won the Champions League last year. Arsenal players (well.. the English ones) seem to be quite well regarded. Beckham is a worldwide icon for a million reasons outside of football.

It was an era, but it's gone now. Time to give Boycie, McNuff and Benny Boy a look in**.


* I say 28, becuase that's my age.
** No, not the 80's kids magazine.
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  #53  
Old 07-07-2006, 09:00 AM
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Out of interest how can anyone of not selected Gazza in his pomp? Not talking about the bloated has been of later years but the Gazza of Italia 90?
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Old 07-07-2006, 09:22 AM
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subs Owen, Seaman, Sansom, Gerrard, Lineker
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  #55  
Old 07-07-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Simon Forrest
This idea of golden generation I guess comes from how "well" English teams have fared in Europe in the past few years and the fact that age profile wise, some of our best players are reaching their optimim age (28?)*.

The Man Utd players won it all under Alex Ferguson (and Man Utd are no longer that force). Chelsea players have made semi's in Europe and have been recognised as world class players by Fifa rankings. Liverpool players won the Champions League last year. Arsenal players (well.. the English ones) seem to be quite well regarded...
Since the post-Heysel European ban on our clubs was lifted in 1991, English teams have won the European cup twice and been runners-up once in 16 attempts. That's hardly a basis on which to claim that this is the best crop of English players in recent living memory (particularly when Englishmen are very much a minority in the first choice starting XI's of those successful clubs).

It's pretty hard to argue that Arsenal & Chelsea's relative success in recent European campaigns is a ringing endorsement of the quality of English players. Arsenal fielded 1 and while Chelsea's 3 are all regular England players, they're conspicuous by their absence in most people's all-time XI's above.

Compare that to the seasons 1977/78-1984/85. English teams won the European Cup in 7 of those 9 seasons and were losing finalists in one of the other 2. That was with squads that were more often than not, almost exclusively English. The possible exception being Liverpool's 4 winning campaigns when Scotish & Irish players were as equally well-represented as the English, but the teams were still almost exclusively British (Isles !).

Despite such over-whelming superiority (in an era when you actually had to win the League Championship to enter the European Cup rather than scraping home in 3rd place) I don't recall the media demanding that anything less than an unlucky semi-final exit should be considered abject failure. In fact, during that period of unprecedented success we failed to even qualify for the 1978 World Cup, were knocked out of the initial group stage of the 1980 European Championship, reached the 2nd group stage of the 1982 World Cup exiting undefeated and again failed to qualify for the 1984 European Championships.

The legacy of the managers responsible for that are that Ron Greenwood is seen as a loveable uncle from a happier distant past, the like of whom we won't see again while good old Bobby Robson was still being touted around as an emergency replacement for SGE by the same journalists that gave him the sort of merciless slagging while he was in office that set the precedent for any sense of perspective being jettisoned when judging the performance of England mangers. Eriksson, is of course the worst manager in the history of World football ... ever. Apparently.

Who had the better players to pick from ? Who had a bigger pool of International quality players to pick from ? Sod the FIFA rankings; we may as well evaluate players according to their marks out of 10 in Monday's Sun if that's the case.

Anyway; I hope more people will contribute their England XI's. So far, Rio Ferdinand seems like a popular choice at centre back. Very sporadic mentions for John Terry, Ashley Cole and Joe Cole. A surprising absence of support for Wayne Rooney while Owen & Gerrard seem like popular subs but rarely make the 1st XI.

Returning to FIFA ratings, wasn't Frank Lampard one of the top 3 this season ? He's nowhere to be seen here so far. Personally, I can't imagine how anybody could ignore Hoddle & Gascoigne when picking an all-time midfield, but there you go. I'd certainly rather watch them than Platt & Hargreaves but it's all about opinions I suppose.
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  #56  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:08 PM
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I agree with Spuff when he suggests that one of the reasons very few of the attacking players from the current team make anyone's best line up is because SGE plays a system which doesn't show them to their best advantage. He's not alone in that, though, is he? Nobody's talking about attackers in this World Cup - it's all midfielders and defenders and those have been the lines which have dominated.
I think Venables has been England's best manager in the time span mentioned, by quite a long way - but it's definitely the case that Robson did try to make teams which permitted the flair players like Waddle, Beardsley and Gascoigne to show their flair. I realise Hoddle is the exception to that - either because he thought it was more important to let Robson do his thang, or because he's just biased in favour of Geordies.
Bobby does get excited over the flair players, bless him. I remeber he used to cream himself on the touchline when he had a 19 year old Ronaldo scoring goals for fun at Barcelona.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis
Since the post-Heysel European ban on our clubs was lifted in 1991, English teams have won the European cup twice and been runners-up once in 16 attempts. That's hardly a basis on which to claim that this is the best crop of English players in recent living memory (particularly when Englishmen are very much a minority in the first choice starting XI's of those successful clubs).

It's pretty hard to argue that Arsenal & Chelsea's relative success in recent European campaigns is a ringing endorsement of the quality of English players. Arsenal fielded 1 and while Chelsea's 3 are all regular England players, they're conspicuous by their absence in most people's all-time XI's above.

Compare that to the seasons 1977/78-1984/85. English teams won the European Cup in 7 of those 9 seasons and were losing finalists in one of the other 2. That was with squads that were more often than not, almost exclusively English. The possible exception being Liverpool's 4 winning campaigns when Scotish & Irish players were as equally well-represented as the English, but the teams were still almost exclusively British (Isles !).

Despite such over-whelming superiority (in an era when you actually had to win the League Championship to enter the European Cup rather than scraping home in 3rd place) I don't recall the media demanding that anything less than an unlucky semi-final exit should be considered abject failure. In fact, during that period of unprecedented success we failed to even qualify for the 1978 World Cup, were knocked out of the initial group stage of the 1980 European Championship, reached the 2nd group stage of the 1982 World Cup exiting undefeated and again failed to qualify for the 1984 European Championships.

The legacy of the managers responsible for that are that Ron Greenwood is seen as a loveable uncle from a happier distant past, the like of whom we won't see again while good old Bobby Robson was still being touted around as an emergency replacement for SGE by the same journalists that gave him the sort of merciless slagging while he was in office that set the precedent for any sense of perspective being jettisoned when judging the performance of England mangers. Eriksson, is of course the worst manager in the history of World football ... ever. Apparently.
I'd agree our current performance in european club football isnt so much a golden era as a return to the level you'd expect.

One thing to consider is that both the WC(pre 82) and european championships(pre 96) were much harder to qualify for.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Halftime Gold
I'd agree our current performance in european club football isnt so much a golden era as a return to the level you'd expect.

One thing to consider is that both the WC(pre 82) and european championships(pre 96) were much harder to qualify for.
I have mentioned that before. In those days only 24 teams got into the World Cup and 8 into the euros.

And, dare I say, England has been very lucky with its opposition in recent qualifiers. It lost to a very very good Danish side in 1983 and in the 1978 World Cup we lost in qualifying to Italy. And its pretty well impossible to imagine Engalnd qualifying today from its 1994 WC group of Holland and the Republic of Ireland. Both sides would read us like a book.
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Old 07-07-2006, 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by selhurstparkflyer
I have mentioned that before. In those days only 24 teams got into the World Cup and 8 into the euros.

And, dare I say, England has been very lucky with its opposition in recent qualifiers. It lost to a very very good Danish side in 1983 and in the 1978 World Cup we lost in qualifying to Italy. And its pretty well impossible to imagine Engalnd qualifying today from its 1994 WC group of Holland and the Republic of Ireland. Both sides would read us like a book.
The WC has actually had around 14 european teams since 82 I believe(most of the extra spots when it jumped to 32 went to NA, Africa and Asia). While I'd say we would stand a good chance of getting though that 94 group you only have to compair it to the piss easy ones we've had for 04 and 06 to see Sven's record isnt really very impressive when it comes to getting us to major tournaments.
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Old 07-07-2006, 01:03 PM
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We qualified in 82 and 86 and 90 though...it was the 1970s when we didn't!!
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