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  #81  
Old 08-07-2006, 02:58 PM
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I concur with the eagle's statement above.

Mclaren cannot be any worse, for that we should be grateful.

At times I would say we have been unlucky as a nation at football. But you do make your own luck and usually get what you deserve. Under Sven we deserved nothing in two World Cups and one Euro. Simple as.

We hate El Tel, but at least he seemed to motivate a team.

The worst of the bunch was Graham Taylor, no doubt. To not qualify for 1994 was a disgrace, being 2-0 up at home against Holland and throwing it away was the disaster that cost us.
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Last edited by PeterH; 08-07-2006 at 03:07 PM.
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  #82  
Old 08-07-2006, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
I am puzzled by the inclusion of Waddle in so many lists. He was a serial failure for England, despite being one of Robson's Geordie favourites, given dozens of chances.
He had a 2-3 year Indian summer in French football, but did nothing for our national team - pretty much like John Barnes who became a regular for years on the basis of being a Liverpool player, and 'that' goal.
I don't understand this thing about Waddle.
He contributed an average of about ten goals a season at Spurs and at Newcastle, from the wing, was capped sixty times and played regularly better for England than Joe Cole has ever done. As joyce the voice points out, he was our best player against Germany in 1990 and that was the biggest game England have played in the last 40 years. He was only criticised by people who don't like wingers and, perhaps, because Sir Bobby lacked the nerve or the gumption to play him, Barnes and Hoddle all together, which meant fans had to choose.
He's staying in my team.
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  #83  
Old 09-07-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seagullette
Where's Geoff Hurst - a hatrick in a World Cup final and yet not in anyone's team?
It's people's best teams since 1982.
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  #84  
Old 09-07-2006, 11:05 AM
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  #85  
Old 09-07-2006, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Omen
Oh come on. Hargreaves has one good game and one excellent game and then makes the greatest England team since 1966....!
I think one and a half good games is enough.
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  #86  
Old 09-07-2006, 11:36 AM
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This was a good thread but should it not be broken down into votes for the best 4-4-2 team. ie. GK, LB, RB, CH etc.

Just a thought.
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  #87  
Old 09-07-2006, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Aguila
I don't understand this thing about Waddle.
He contributed an average of about ten goals a season at Spurs and at Newcastle, from the wing, was capped sixty times and played regularly better for England than Joe Cole has ever done. As joyce the voice points out, he was our best player against Germany in 1990 and that was the biggest game England have played in the last 40 years. He was only criticised by people who don't like wingers and, perhaps, because Sir Bobby lacked the nerve or the gumption to play him, Barnes and Hoddle all together, which meant fans had to choose.
He's staying in my team.
Anyone who critcises Waddle knows nothing about football. What a great player he was. Pity for him he was English. The same goes for Hoddle.
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  #88  
Old 09-07-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PeterH
I concur with the eagle's statement above.

Mclaren cannot be any worse, for that we should be grateful.

At times I would say we have been unlucky as a nation at football. But you do make your own luck and usually get what you deserve. Under Sven we deserved nothing in two World Cups and one Euro. Simple as.

We hate El Tel, but at least he seemed to motivate a team.

The worst of the bunch was Graham Taylor, no doubt. To not qualify for 1994 was a disgrace, being 2-0 up at home against Holland and throwing it away was the disaster that cost us.
Drawing and losing to Norway cost us it.
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  #89  
Old 09-07-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Golf Boy
Anyone who critcises Waddle knows nothing about football. What a great player he was. Pity for him he was English. The same goes for Hoddle.
Really ? Thanks, that must be me then.

One paced, poor for England (one or two good games I grant you), chronically inconsistant (like Gerrard), grossly overhyped on the basis of his spell in France and Hoddle talking him up.

B.T.W. (just to remember) : Hoddle had numerous chances for England and never really performed. Excellent skills, poor psychology, no tactical discipline. Hoddle 'n Waddle did great in the less demanding French League.

Last edited by Celestial Empire; 09-07-2006 at 11:55 AM.
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  #90  
Old 09-07-2006, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
Really ? Thanks, that must be me then.

One paced, poor for England (one or two good games I grant you), chronically inconsistant (like Gerrard), grossly overhyped on the basis of his spell in France and Hoddle talking him up.
I don't remember him being one paced -- he didn't have a problem getting good crosses in. Just because he always looked knackered doesn't mean he was one paced. He scored goals, and made them. His was adored in Marseille ( but we all know that England doesn't appreciate good football ).

The problem the English have with skilled players is that if they produce moments of magic they are called inconsistent because they can't single handedly win every game. Also skillful players are expected to run more than the donkey runners and tacklers otherwise they are called lazy. The strange thing is, no one ever ever criticised the tacklers for not being skillfull enough.

England have achieved nothing on the world stage -- we have had the players, but we don't like skill so they are vilified. In the 1980's the team should have been built around Hoddle but we chose to build it around a tackler ( Robson ), whilst most of Hoddles appearances were as a sub

I think Jack Charlton summed it up best at the 1988 euro championship when he said that Hoddle was a genius and that he was amazed that he got in the England side at all.
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  #91  
Old 09-07-2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Celestial Empire

B.T.W. (just to remember) : Hoddle had numerous chances for England and never really performed.
The team should have been built around him. I maintain my original point
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  #92  
Old 10-07-2006, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Aguila
As joyce the voice points out, he was our best player against Germany in 1990
Gazza.
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  #93  
Old 10-07-2006, 02:02 PM
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You lot must have elephant memories.
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If we can beat the Germans with full employment (albeit, not with 11 men) then why can't we use those men to fight poverty and disease?
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  #94  
Old 10-07-2006, 02:09 PM
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Some of us can even recall Margaret Thatcher laying waste to the country.
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  #95  
Old 10-07-2006, 02:37 PM
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Well, yes, intrepretation is down to everything.

As far as I can remember of that 1990 World Cup, England was worse than useless in the group games, jammy as hell against Belgium and a Cameroon side missing 4 first choice players, only to produce the preformance of a lifetime against the Germans.

The way you lot are talking the team played Argentina did against Serbia last month, in every game.
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  #96  
Old 10-07-2006, 02:45 PM
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I've only picked three from that team? You were the one who chose "Platty".
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  #97  
Old 10-07-2006, 02:48 PM
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It's a fair point you make spf. In some ways the group games were similar to this time around and others too.

The difference was that England changed formation and Gazza emerged as perhaps the player of the tournament. A bit before the tournament, there was some doubt he would be in the squad and more doubt he would start and even more that if he started he'd contain his nuttier instincts.

Like the story of the ugly duckling turning into a swan. In 2006, the duckling stayed ugly.

Thse things are often on a knife-edge in football. It's hard to believe now that Steve Bull was the man many thought would be the emerging star. In the early games I had to endure pubs where everyone was chanting, "Bring out the Bull!" In another universe, Robson changed tactics to a long-ball game.
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  #98  
Old 10-07-2006, 03:01 PM
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The difference was that Robson had taken players who made that tactical switch possible, even obvious. Eriksson didn't really have that option because most of his reserves were just far less celebrated shadows of a first eleven which has been written in stone (by SGE but also by the "informed" football press) almost since they started calling them the "golden" generation. But then we knew Ericsson came with a fairly rigid shape or plan, and that was considered to be better than Keegan's innocence; and, of course, it was better, at that.
Bobby had been burbling on about 4-2-4 for years but the truth was that the midfield was always flexible (he would play one, two or no wingers, almost on a whim), and the defence became so during the World Cup because he had the players to do it. There was a lot more to Mark Wright and Paul Parker than there is to John Terry and Gary Neville.
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  #99  
Old 10-07-2006, 03:10 PM
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Gazza's emergence was definitely helped by Robson's injuries. Its such a same Arron Lennon did not get the same opportunity. Come 2010, provided the Premier League and the England team does not wreck him, he could be some talent.

The system demanded change in '90 and I am really sure that it did in '06, other than clearly the midfield was overstaffed with similar type players. And while I blame Sven for most of the problems, the glorification of the likes of Beckham is to blame as well. In that, if Sven dropped him and Lampard (as he should have done) and England played as badly as it did, can you imagine the grief he would have got?

So, I guess what I am saying is that he is to blame for not dropping Lampard and I am to blame for not stamping on David Beckham's foot on 7th June.
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  #100  
Old 10-07-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Golf Boy
The team should have been built around him. I maintain my original point
it would have been like Wales building their team around Koumas, (or Palace building around Glynn Hodges )
Skillful players all, but all also mentally fragile.
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