Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS Off Topic General Chit Chat

Notices

General Chit Chat Off topic conversations. Please do not post CPFC or sport related threads here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #6261  
Old 15-11-2016, 06:36 PM
Golf Boy's Avatar
Golf Boy Golf Boy is online now
I'm not divorced
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not Copenhagen
Age: 48
Posts: 29,687
Rep Power: 21474851
Golf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is here
Anyone else feeling sorry for landlords?

It's like feeling sorry for bankers.
Reply With Quote
  #6262  
Old 15-11-2016, 06:38 PM
Golf Boy's Avatar
Golf Boy Golf Boy is online now
I'm not divorced
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not Copenhagen
Age: 48
Posts: 29,687
Rep Power: 21474851
Golf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is hereGolf Boy Sam the man is here
If it's no longer profitable then landlords can sell their properties. Everyones happy.
Reply With Quote
  #6263  
Old 15-11-2016, 06:47 PM
ExCroydon_CPFC ExCroydon_CPFC is offline
Banned by Moderators
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Herts
Age: 36
Posts: 2,019
Rep Power: 21276906
ExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
They won't all be. The market won't accept it and people will be forced to sell or pay the SDLT to incorporate.

You'll get over it.

I am entertained by your suggestion of a legal challenge though. Massively
There already has been a legal challenge, albeit one that got over ruled. Still various other options to explore though, and landlords (rightly) won't be accepting this unfair tax without a fight.
Reply With Quote
  #6264  
Old 15-11-2016, 06:53 PM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Happy Felix Day!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 40
Posts: 57,433
Rep Power: 21474850
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCroydon_CPFC View Post
There already has been a legal challenge, albeit one that got over ruled. Still various other options to explore though, and landlords (rightly) won't be accepting this unfair tax without a fight.
property income has, in my memory at least, always been taxed as unearned income. Even back when it was Schedule A income.

In the main people don't get deductions for borrowings costs against unearned income. The fact that one was available at all for mortgage interest is the unusual position. So even on a first principles approach there is little argument to sustain a deduction if the government want to remove it.

This is different from furnished holiday letting income which is treated, and always has been treated, as earned income and a trade (hence why you are seeing a shift to that in central London).

I would be genuinely astonished if a legal challenege is upheld in the UK courts.

But of course you are welcome to throw away your money on such folly. Though you probably ought not to expect to maintain a tax deduction for those costs either.
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.

Last edited by Adlerhorst; 15-11-2016 at 07:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6265  
Old 15-11-2016, 07:04 PM
Zohar's Penalty Zohar's Penalty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Age: 33
Posts: 1,754
Rep Power: 21474838
Zohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is hereZohar's Penalty Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Anyone else feeling sorry for landlords?

It's like feeling sorry for bankers.
I feel sorry for recent first time buyers who have bought in the last few years, workingvthemselves into the ground to do so, and are mortgaged up to the hilt and now might face negative equity due to falling prices due to an increased supply available. Or have i misunderstood something?
Reply With Quote
  #6266  
Old 15-11-2016, 07:05 PM
ExCroydon_CPFC ExCroydon_CPFC is offline
Banned by Moderators
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Herts
Age: 36
Posts: 2,019
Rep Power: 21276906
ExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
property income has, in my memory at least, always been taxed as unearned income. Even back when it was Schedule A income.

In the main people don't get deductions for borrowings costs against unearned income. The fact that one was available at all for mortgage interest is the unusual position. So even on a first principles approach there is little argument to sustain a deduction if the government want to remove it.

This is different from furnished holiday letting income which is treated, and always has been treated, as earned income (hence why you are seeing a shift to that in central London).

I would be genuinely astonished if a legal challenege is upheld in the UK courts.

But of course you are welcome to throw away your money on such folly. Though you probably ought not to expect to maintain a tax deduction for those costs either.
Yes it is, but BTL is a lot different from other unearned income and the tax treatment should vary accordingly. To be honest I dont hold up much hope of s legal challenge being upheld, but I'm not worried and I'm sure most tax savvy landlords will find a way to manage their liabilities and finance, which will unfortunately but invariably include increased rents.

The government don't care about renters or helping people getting onto the ladder, it's just another way of increasing revenues by targeting landlords- an unfair stealth tax they know will face little public opposition over as they've done such a good job of demonising multiple property owners that no one really gives a ****.
Reply With Quote
  #6267  
Old 15-11-2016, 07:11 PM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Happy Felix Day!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 40
Posts: 57,433
Rep Power: 21474850
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCroydon_CPFC View Post
Yes it is, but BTL is a lot different from other unearned income and the tax treatment should vary accordingly. To be honest I dont hold up much hope of s legal challenge being upheld, but I'm not worried and I'm sure most tax savvy landlords will find a way to manage their liabilities and finance, which will unfortunately but invariably include increased rents.

The government don't care about renters or helping people getting onto the ladder, it's just another way of increasing revenues by targeting landlords- an unfair stealth tax they know will face little public opposition over as they've done such a good job of demonising multiple property owners that no one really gives a ****.
i am sure savvy landlords would have seen this coming and were not caught out. Well I tell a lie, I know plenty that did and planned accordingly, and were not caught out. The clue was when SDLT on corporates purchasing residential property was introduced at 2m.

Personally I got out of the property game some time ago as I was over exposed to property risk. Plus there was the chance some bastard would come along and disallowed interest deductions against rental income, which would have been annoying.
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.

Last edited by Adlerhorst; 15-11-2016 at 07:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6268  
Old 15-11-2016, 07:51 PM
sw16girl's Avatar
sw16girl sw16girl is offline
A Fish without a Bike
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Effingham
Posts: 12,756
Rep Power: 21474849
sw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is heresw16girl Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCroydon_CPFC View Post
This is just another lazy stereotype as all landlords being stingy, mega rich Scrooge like land barons, who need to be demonised and taxed to the hilt.

A BTL investment is a business and like all businesses, rising costs are invariably passed onto the customers, i.e. the tenant. Being taxed on revenue is ludicrously unfair as landlords will end up paying tax, even if their cost of financing and maintaining the property outweighs the rental yield.

It's just a way of the government scapegoating landlords to absolve themselves from their obligation to address the wages vs house prices disparity, and ultimately the additional costs will end up in higher rents. Stupid and counter productive move from the government as it will just mean those stuck in the rent trap will even worse off and even less likely to be able to afford their own home.
It's funny isn't it that, because you are incredibly selfish yourself it doesn't occur to you that any one who is a Landlord themselves might feel as I wrote.

I am not writing without considerable experience in this area and with a personal interest as well. BTW higher rents are what is being threatened - you can only get higher rents if people pay them saying rents will have to increase is a bit like a house owner saying they will have to sell their house at a certain price because they need that amount. rents will be what the market will bear and if people cannot afford it they will house share, rent rooms as lodgers or stay at home with family instead.

As far a lot of people are concerned BTL is not seen as a business it is seen as an investment - it provides capital growth as well as income and as such is not like any "normal" business.
__________________
Crystal Palace Supporters Trust
http://www.palacetrust.org.uk

A Trust is for life not just for Crisis
Reply With Quote
  #6269  
Old 15-11-2016, 08:35 PM
ExCroydon_CPFC ExCroydon_CPFC is offline
Banned by Moderators
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Herts
Age: 36
Posts: 2,019
Rep Power: 21276906
ExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietExCroydon_CPFC came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
i am sure savvy landlords would have seen this coming and were not caught out. Well I tell a lie, I know plenty that did and planned accordingly, and were not caught out. The clue was when SDLT on corporates purchasing residential property was introduced at 2m.

Personally I got out of the property game some time ago as I was over exposed to property risk. Plus there was the chance some bastard would come along and disallowed interest deductions against rental income, which would have been annoying.
Ah mr Nostradamus, if only we all had your amazing foresight and business nous ;p

Property is still a good investment though and whatever the tax man does, will still leave those who bought at the right time a healthy return,although I wouldn't advise any potential investor to move into BTL now, or at least not until this supposed price crash hits.

Last edited by ExCroydon_CPFC; 15-11-2016 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Removed personal question
Reply With Quote
  #6270  
Old 15-11-2016, 08:57 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,388
Rep Power: 21474847
Nth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is here
The government has been gradually increasing the tax attractiveness of equities over the past few years. With the increase in the annual ISA allowance, the increase in the range of funds and now the new 5k a year dividend tax allowance it is a better bet than before.
Reply With Quote
  #6271  
Old 16-11-2016, 08:20 AM
scro's Avatar
scro scro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Holborn
Age: 40
Posts: 13,512
Rep Power: 21474851
scro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is herescro Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Personally I got out of the property game some time ago as I was over exposed to property risk. Plus there was the chance some bastard would come along and disallowed interest deductions against rental income, which would have been annoying.
If you ever find yourself writing sentences like this and sharing them publicly kids. Do the world a favour and punch yourself in the face.

Reply With Quote
  #6272  
Old 13-12-2016, 05:01 PM
jaspercpfc's Avatar
jaspercpfc jaspercpfc is offline
Not again Wayne
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,000
Rep Power: 21474842
jaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by PalaceMonkey View Post
it was 8.5% under asking price.

and we'd already dropped the price 3.5% from when we first put it on the market, so 12% less than what we initially wanted.
Andy, that sadly doesn't belong to me!
Did you have any developments with this? I'm guessing the Southern debacle isn't helping matters.
__________________
People talk about the prestige of beating records but prestige never bought me dinner in a restaurant. It's winning games that does that. - Sir Steve Coppell
Reply With Quote
  #6273  
Old 05-12-2017, 06:31 PM
jaspercpfc's Avatar
jaspercpfc jaspercpfc is offline
Not again Wayne
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,000
Rep Power: 21474842
jaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is herejaspercpfc Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj4england View Post
Ultimately, as a 25 year old potential first time buyer over the next 12 months, am I likely to see anything that will be of joy to me over that period?
Did you get on the ladder?


Quote:
Originally Posted by PalaceMonkey View Post
it was 8.5% under asking price.

and we'd already dropped the price 3.5% from when we first put it on the market, so 12% less than what we initially wanted.


Andy, that sadly doesn't belong to me!
over a year on from this post, what was the outcome on this?
__________________
People talk about the prestige of beating records but prestige never bought me dinner in a restaurant. It's winning games that does that. - Sir Steve Coppell

Last edited by jaspercpfc; 05-12-2017 at 06:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6274  
Old 05-12-2017, 06:58 PM
mushroom's Avatar
mushroom mushroom is offline
sleep chaser
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Too far from where i wanna be.
Posts: 11,130
Rep Power: 21474849
mushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is heremushroom Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Anyone else feeling sorry for landlords?

It's like feeling sorry for bankers.
If landlords do sell up... a lot of people will be waiting for non-existent social housing. My tenant gets her rent (part) paid by benefits. Landlords have filled the gap created by a lack of social housing.
__________________
When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.