Birmingham City Administration.

[Windsor_Eagle]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

Agilo had the same deal over Fonte's sale and how much did Agilo get? Nothing. The money went through the FL or FA and there it stayed, paying off our football creditors. I forget which club had made a complaint due to failed payment.

So as you say Agilo had a charge over all the assets of the club (which for us was pretty much just the players) a position which allowed them to bring in administrators. So the following day a judge was going to hear that we owed £2m and he was going to ask how that was going to be paid. No-one was going to lend a debt ridden club who already have a charge on their assets any money, SJ was clearly not going to throw the money in there so the answer was simple. We had no way to pay our tax bill, even if we sold a player the money might never reach the club with football creditors still outstanding a little. Agilo have first dibs on that money and if they give it up to HMRC where would they get their return?

I have little doubt that we were in real danger of being wound up the following day, that putting us in administration was Agilo's only chance of realising any return on their loan. They also funded administration to the tune of £1m to keep us in business - crucial in the history of the club. They made money from their deal with Palace and that is what they are in business to do and they only achieved that by the administration order.

The sad fact is that Agilo for all the abuse they get on these boards saved the club, only for a time until CPFC2010 came in, but saved it none the less.

Isn't that the same point I was making? I concede that one or two of my assertions may not have been totally accurate - but Agilo took a decision which could have killed the club but ultimately benefitted us longer term. I understand fully why they did what they did.

However, had they not done this and the winding up order was served we cannot know exactly what would have been said or done in the courtroom or how much money that they financially might have made from liquidation compared to what they ultimately recieved. They were a hostile creditor, but I do understand their actions. They prioritised their potential return over possible death of a football club* (because it would keep in tact their status as preferential creditor) - and as far as they were concerned that was in their best interests.

*That is not to suggest that the alternative would not have resulted in the death of a football club

[100% Palace]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

I forget which club had made a complaint due to failed payment.

Charlton

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by Windsor_Eagle

However, had they not done this and the winding up order was served we cannot know exactly what would have been said or done in the courtroom or how much money that they financially might have made from liquidation compared to what they ultimately recieved.

Unless you can come up with an explanation as to how £2m was about to be found without the sale of players (as that money could have been stopped by the FL, and Agilo had first dibs they were not going to waive) then what choice would a judge have given the company was unable to pay its debts.

The way the club was run at the time the end was inevitable, as it is for many other clubs at the moment, it is more a matter of when than if. A club can only make sustained losses for a certain period of time, and so many are in that position. Football is IMO slowly imploding.

As for how much Agilo would have made had we been liquidated, i beleieve they lose preferred creditor status in liquidation (stand to be corrected) but the player registration would revert to the footballing Authorities and so without their sale what money would have been made from any liquidation?

It is only a matter of time before a club is liquidated, we only just survived and the likes of Pompey and many others are very close to that point. Forest have a potentially big issue now, as to Birmingham. Bolton could be in big trouble along with Blackburn and Wigan if they come down. All are making losses and have budgets based on premiership income and don't have crowds to support the spending they make. They have players on huge contracts and unless they have relegation reduction clauses in there will struggle to pay them.

[elgin eagle]

Originally Posted by 100% Palace

Charlton

Was it not ipswich concerning a payment for alan lee? We probably responded that he was priceless

[Cjbear]

Originally Posted by elgin eagle

Was it not ipswich concerning a payment for alan lee? We probably responded that he was priceless

Yes it was Ipswich over the Alan Lee transfer

[917L]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

The sad fact is that Agilo for all the abuse they get on these boards saved the club, only for a time until CPFC2010 came in, but saved it none the less.

They ended up creating a situation where 2010 stepped in

They had no interest in the club and dint care if we went to the wall, so saying 'they' saved it is disigenuous to say the least

Their actions created a situation from which the club was saved, eventually, but it was by accident, not design

[PalaceSi]

Originally Posted by PeterK

Din't wish it on any team....and nor should you

Surely you make an exception with Birmingham

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Dave

really?

Yes.

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by 917L

They ended up creating a situation where 2010 stepped in

They had no interest in the club and dint care if we went to the wall, so saying 'they' saved it is disigenuous to say the least

Their actions created a situation from which the club was saved, eventually, but it was by accident, not design

Not saying saving the club was their intention but had they now taken the action they did, i have no doubt that we would have been wound up the following day.

It may have been a by-product of their self interest but their actions were crucial in our survival.

[917L]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

Not saying saving the club was their intention but had they now taken the action they did, i have no doubt that we would have been wound up the following day.

It may have been a by-product of their self interest but their actions were crucial in our survival.

Looking back I dont think anyone seriously believed we would be wound up the next day

[GreatGonzo]

Looking back Michael Fish said there wasn't going to be a storm.

I am not sure at the time we all had a clear picture of what was happening. A lot of facts became apparent after the fact but would have played a part.

I guess the question you have to answer is on what basis would a judge have not wound the club up? To answer that you surely have to find a way that the club were going to pay the tax bill. I cannto see any way they could do that, given a) Agilo were not prepared to give up their preferered status (understandable from their point of view) and b) SJ was not going to put any more money in.

What could have been said in court to stop the winding up order being granted?

[AJ]

Birmingham v Pompey tonight...ironic!

[The Ferret]

It can only be a matter of time before one of the bigger non prem clubs goes to the wall, a Forest fan at work says that they are losing 12 mil a year.

[cranesparkeagle]

Makes me think Chris Hughton, A guy I have great respect for with his Newcastle record as well is doing a heck of a job in the circumstances

[wedgetail]

Originally Posted by cranesparkeagle

Makes me think Chris Hughton, A guy I have great respect for with his Newcastle record as well is doing a heck of a job in the circumstances

How can you respect him when he signed King.

[LiamCPFC]

Originally Posted by wedgetail

How can you respect him when he signed King.

I'm sure it was Alex McLeish that signed him before he jumped ship to Villa? Literally a week or two before maybe?

[foxinthebox]

Originally Posted by LiamCPFC

I'm sure it was Alex McLeish that signed him before he jumped ship to Villa? Literally a week or two before maybe?

yeah think this correct

[kolinkins]

Originally Posted by cranesparkeagle

Makes me think Chris Hughton, A guy I have great respect for with his Newcastle record as well is doing a heck of a job in the circumstances

both there and Newcastle he inherited Premier League quality squads which should both coast back up. He's doing the least he should be doing.

Think a weaker squad, and he will be exposed.

[GreatGonzo]

He has one of teh best 2 squads in teh league that is for sure.

Fixture congestion, playing less league games and huge travel commitments early on in the season had them in a false position.

A win tonight and i think they are 3rd.

West Ham and Brum will take the top 2 spots IMO.

[New LP]

Originally Posted by kolinkins

both there and Newcastle he inherited Premier League quality squads which should both coast back up. He's doing the least he should be doing.

Think a weaker squad, and he will be exposed.

I accept that with Newcastle he had a squad who it would of been criminal not to get promoted as champions, a little like us in 1994. Is this really true of Birmingham though? He lost most of his key players in the summer or during the first half of the season; Foster, Dann, Johnson, Gardener, Ferguson, Larsson, Jerome, Bowyer. He's had to replace most of them with kids or bargain basement buys. On top of that he had to contend with loads of extra games in the Europa League and the owner being arrested and facing severe financial problems. I was sceptical about how good he was when he was at Newcastle but he seems to be more than performing there right now for me.