Positive discrimination - encouraging Black and Asian supporters (split thread)

[Maz]

Originally Posted by eagle mart

I am still sort of sat here reading this, slightly bemused at the whole thread, though. It sort of is coming across as a ‘totally whole new concept’ from James. We’ve numerous community schemes, CPFC2010 have conducted research (I believe) and also the marvellous Ad campaign. This thread seems to almost totally undermine and ignore these initiatives.

I am totally confused. Given James' comments above how on earth does this thread undermine CPFC2010's achievements (which you are right to point out, but are only beginnings)?

[eagle mart]

It's just the feeling I get, this sort of thread does rear it's head every now and again. It was discussed at the Fans Forum last summer and on here also...

Maybe I just have a glass half full view on it, rather than a glass half empty?

[Maz]

Originally Posted by eagle mart

It's just the feeling I get, this sort of thread does rear it's head every now and again. It was discussed at the Fans Forum last summer and on here also...

Maybe I just have a glass half full view on it, rather than a glass half empty?

Fair enough.

But even I trust James enough (it hurts to write that) to believe that his motives are noble in raising it again.

[917L]

This isnt something confined to Palace, it appears to be a general sporting theme.

How many asian fans do Leicester or Bradford have for instance? etc

[DANGERMOUSE]

Some interesting stats in this Beeb article about the gentrification of football:

"We now have women making up 23% of crowds, 11% from black and minority ethnic groups and 13% of Premier League season ticket holders were under 16 last season.

The Premier League's annual survey of 45,000 fans suggests that those attending matches are not employed in elite occupations, with 10% working in manufacturing, 8% in financial services, 8% in construction and 8% in education.

Obviously that is the Premier League and not the Football League, but it raises two questions: (a) is the diversity of the Selhurst crowd much different to the P.L., and (b) what does James think about the latest P.C. term for coloured, 'black and minority ethnic'?

[Palace Rebel]

"11% from black and minority ethnic groups "

I imagine bumped up massively by friends and fmaily of the Man City owners and 80% of Old Trafford being Chinese tourists

[Conpalace]

Im sure it would be the same with every team in europe let alone england

[Maz]

Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE

(b) what does James think about the latest P.C. term for coloured, 'black and minority ethnic'?

'LAtest'?

It's been vastly out of date to use that rather offensive term 'coloured' for some time.

[Vince Hilaire's Afro]

Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE

Some interesting stats in this Beeb article about the gentrification of football:

Obviously that is the Premier League and not the Football League, but it raises two questions: (a) is the diversity of the Selhurst crowd much different to the P.L., and (b) what does James think about the latest P.C. term for coloured, 'black and minority ethnic'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...hnic_diversity
A quick glance at a list such as this perhaps suggest why it might be an important move for Palace to attract more people from ethnic minorities to the games, rather than clubs based in certain other cities.

Yes, our supporters travel to games from all over the country, but there's always plenty of comments about people not able to make weekday games due to travel, or going more and more sporadically due to the cost of travelling to games. Gaining more local support might see more consistency in gates, and increased ST sales.

[mrgins]

Originally Posted by James

1) Do others agree with me that there seem to be a disproportionately high number of white faces in the Palace crowd - given the cosmopolitan nature of the locality?
2) If so, why is this?
3) Is there anything new that can be done to encourage those individuals or groups who wouldn't normally consider coming to Selhurst to give it a try?

Bring a Jew with you?
Take a Gay to an away?
I started a thread a couple of years ago asking whether our fans reflected the same ratio of white/black as the team. Many people thought they did.
Take into account a couple of things:
1. Indians and Pakistanis in particular come from a cultural background of cricket rather than soccer. Of course it's hard not to live in England and avoid the national sport.
2. Many immigrants, and I'm assuming here, don't have the money to go to games. Of course with the unemployment, many whites can't afford it either.
James withdrew his "positive discrimination" remark, which is good. I'd rather change it to a marketing angle of "who is your target group?"
There are a lot of ways to entice/encourage/target/attract certain groups without making it so obvious we want to tap the minorities. I'd certainly respond to an old man's discount as it would make me feel like I'm saving money, however, I wouldn't go near there if it became a "bring a Jew with yew" type crusade, which is what this thread smells like.

[mrgins]

Originally Posted by Maz

'LAtest'?

It's been vastly out of date to use that rather offensive term 'coloured' for some time.

For blacks, yes, but for people other than whites it's pc to say people of color. I came to the US when blacks were black and proud so I always say black

[James]

Originally Posted by CPFC2010

Clearly we need to attract more local people to Selhurst, especially those from ethnic minorities who are rather under-represented in our fan base. We are working with local schools on this and as mentioned above will be having another family day v Ipswich.

I love our new Owners!

[Maz]

Originally Posted by James

I love our new Owners!

Smart fellas.

A bit of vindication for you, maybe. (Although, being a modest chap, you didn;t mention it).

[Sam Spade]

More fans or potential fans coming is nothing but good. If they come from the local area, even better,that will reflect all the hard work that CPFC2010 are doing so well. If more local people come then the proportion of ethnic minorities in that group would probably be greater than in a typical cross section of Palace match goers. Unless those who are from ethnic minorities are discouraged from coming, (as per the disgusting "ba ba black sheep" story above) then I don't see how the ethnic make up of the crowd impacts on the club.
I love and am proud to support Palace. I would feel horrified if any particular ethnic groups felt excluded from attending especially if this was due to a perceived lack of welcome or even outright abuse. CPFC2010 (and James, who started this thread with good will and in good faith) consider reaching out to ensure no one feels excluded is an important part of club ownership.
I agree, but more fans, bigger gates per se, with everyone equally welcome is different to " it would be nice to see a few more black faces."
The latter sentiment is patronising, strategically difficult to implement, hard to maintain without a general upturn in gates, and, without a general increase, of limited or no benefit to CPFC.
It may be that some people feel that there is a moral imperative on the club to encourage ethnic minorities specifically just because they are "under represented" (that will need to be quantified I suppose) and that in itself, that is "A Good Thing." Well, it may be, but by isolating it as a seperate issue and not seeing it as part of a general bigger gates initiative it will be come exclusive rather than inclusive which is the opposite of what is trying to be achieved.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Sam Spade

.
I agree, but more fans, bigger gates per se, with everyone equally welcome is different to " it would be nice to see a few more black faces."
The latter sentiment is patronising.

no, it really isn't. To want a more diverse and representative fan base can never be patronising. It should be normal.

What might be patronising are certain strategies that might be adopted to help make that wish a reality. James has already acknowledged that his initial idea for such a strategy was misplaced, so it's really time to move on.

[Sam Spade]

Originally Posted by Maz

no, it really isn't. To want a more diverse and representative fan base can never be patronising. It should be normal.

What might be patronising are certain strategies that might be adopted to help make that wish a reality. James has already acknowledged that his initial idea for such a strategy was misplaced, so it's really time to move on.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realise we'd finished.

[waddoneagle]

Originally Posted by Sam Spade

Oh, sorry, I didn't realise we'd finished.

It's only finished when the White middle class people say so

[James]

Originally Posted by Maz

no, it really isn't. To want a more diverse and representative fan base can never be patronising. It should be normal.

What might be patronising are certain strategies that might be adopted to help make that wish a reality. James has already acknowledged that his initial idea for such a strategy was misplaced, so it's really time to move on.

Thanks for the defence Maz, which is genuinely appreciated after the hammering I got from a few people yesterday, but I haven't acknowledged that my initial strategy was misplaced. I didn't have any 'initial strategy'!

It was never a 'strategy' as I said at the outset:

I know it couldn't be done for all sorts of reasons (discrimination - albeit positive - determining exactly who qualifies and the fact that it may be regarded as patronising or insulting to some of those who are targeted)

I have however acknowledged that even referring to such a scheme was a mistake, because so many people focussed on the fact that it was a ridiculous idea (and patronising etc) and thus missed the main point, which was that it would be great to encourage individuals and groups from all ethnic backgrounds to come and join the Palace family.

Anyway, I am delighted that CPFC2010 have acknowledged that this is a worthwhile aim and I live in hope that we may see some further progress in making this a reality.

[917L]

Originally Posted by James

Anyway, I am delighted that CPFC2010 have acknowledged that this is a worthwhile aim and I live in hope that we may see some further progress in making this a reality.

Its hardly like you've came up with some earth shattering revelation to suggest it would be nice to see more of the local ethnic population at Selhurst, its been discussed on here before.

However your suggestion was to positively discrininate to achieve that aim, which unsurprisingly was thought a rather bad idea to pout it politely

[Maz]

Originally Posted by James

Thanks for the defence Maz, which is genuinely appreciated after the hammering I got from a few people yesterday, but I haven't acknowledged that my initial strategy was misplaced. I didn't have any 'initial strategy'!

You're right. I accept the correction.