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  #21  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
They, like now, had stds, so not intentional genocide

Also, not Protestant
Fair enough.
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  #22  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:01 PM
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Jews killed Jesus

Fact
daft racist.
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  #23  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
They, like now, had stds, so not intentional genocide

Also, not Protestant
So because the Spanish conquest of Americas and the crusades in Europe and Asia where Catholics ... their atrocities do not count?

Wow just unbelievably wow.
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  #24  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evvo111
For killing the largest percentage of their own population I think Pol Pot must be close to the top (or bottom) of the pile.
Sophie Chapman: [Picking out a T-shirt with Mao Tze-tung on it] What about this?
Mark Corrigan: You do know who that is, don't you?
Sophie Chapman: Yeah, it's Chairman Mao, isn't it?
Mark Corrigan: Exactly, the man was responsible for the deaths of 60 million people. I don't want him on my chest.
Sophie Chapman: 60 million, that's more than Stalin, isn't it?
Mark Corrigan: It's not a competition, Soph. Although if it was, Mao would probably win.
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoot
Wow just unbelievably wow.
It's OK, Hitler was a Catholic, just like Dave.
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  #26  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:19 PM
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What I struggle with in terms of what happened in World War 2 is that Germany was, in many ways, perhaps the most civilised European nation of the time.

I can remember my old history teacher, who was a full on Trotskyist, saying that in terms of Empire building the Germans had been the only people who actually lost money due to the way they built roads and schools and so on in the lands they colonised.

For them to seemingly get so behind a murderous regime in the way they did is perhaps an enigma that even now I guess people struggle with. I suppose you could blame the chaos that engulfed the country after WW1 and so on but even then it beggers belief.

I love modern day Germany. During my trips there I have found them to be a charming, friendly and incredibly civilised people and yet there is still something about just how ordered everything is, at least on the surface, that creeps me out. Ditto with what I hear about Switzerland.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:19 PM
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Communism killed far more in the 20th Century than Fascism - a scary thought. The peculiar evil of the Nazis was the industrial death camp.
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
The problem with the 20th century was that more mechanized ways were developed for killing people. On the Nazis, I've visited Munich and having been to the Bavarian mountains and also to Dachau, it was hard to reconcile such an area of natural beauty with the origin of such human cruelty.
The un-mechanised Chinese managed to despatch around 20 million people during the Taiping Rebellion, so they could claim to be the winners, the cruel heathen devils.
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:27 PM
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I am quite surprised Dave got so many people to bite on that.
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  #30  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglejez
Just watching a program on Hitler. I've seen and read loads on WW2 and Hitler etc but it absolutely melts the brain that anything like that could have happened especially under 80 years go. The Ghettos, (184 calories per person per day), the extermination of disabled, Jews etc etc.

The mind truly boggles. Such hatred and cruelty (and complete madness !!)

Can there ever have been a worse period in human history ?
Probably Stalinist terror during the 30's or Mao's great leap forward, estimated around 100 million died under those two tyrants, either by forced starvation, execution, torture just to fill quotas, and on top of that there were plenty of cases of family members resorting to eating their own kids, however for some strange reason we hear little about that compared to the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany. The 20th century was for sure the most systematically cruelest century ever, hopefully the 21st will be a lot tamer.
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  #31  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC
What I struggle with in terms of what happened in World War 2 is that Germany was, in many ways, perhaps the most civilised European nation of the time.

I can remember my old history teacher, who was a full on Trotskyist, saying that in terms of Empire building the Germans had been the only people who actually lost money due to the way they built roads and schools and so on in the lands they colonised.

For them to seemingly get so behind a murderous regime in the way they did is perhaps an enigma that even now I guess people struggle with. I suppose you could blame the chaos that engulfed the country after WW1 and so on but even then it beggers belief.

"I love modern day Germany. During my trips there I have found them to be a charming, friendly and incredibly civilised people and yet there is still something about just how ordered everything is, at least on the surface, that creeps me out. Ditto with what I hear about Switzerland.
Its true, both interesting and disturbing how advanced the Nazis were in the 30's in terms of infrastructure and technology. I found this transcript on a politics forum, which probably explains one of the reasons why Germans supported Hitler apart from the brainwashing and anti semitism

'Our social welfare system is so much more than just charity. Because we do not say to the rich people: Please, give something to the poor. Instead we say: German people, help yourself! Everyone must help, whether you are rich or poor! Everyone mut have the belief that there's always someone in a much worse situation than I am, and this person I want to help as a comrade."

The inter war period was a crazy time, the whole first half of the century gave birth to such evil.
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  #32  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Jews killed Jesus

Fact
Pilate was an Italian,
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  #33  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooz182
Probably Stalinist terror during the 30's or Mao's great leap forward, estimated around 100 million died under those two tyrants
Much, much less than British imperialism, according to the Irish.
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  #34  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wedgetail
Pilate was an Italian,
Hey, Pilate wanted to let him go.
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  #35  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz
Much, much less than British imperialism, according to the Irish.
fewer, Maz.
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  #36  
Old 11-04-2012, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GodstoneEagle
fewer, Maz.
Isn't it only 'fewer' if the number is inexact?

Dave has the exact number. Written down on a post-it note.
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  #37  
Old 11-04-2012, 05:04 PM
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Perhaps this thread needs this quote from Jean-Paul Sartre....

Fascism is not defined by the number of its victims, but by the way it kills them.
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  #38  
Old 11-04-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Jews killed Jesus

Fact
Wrong it was the Romans
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  #39  
Old 11-04-2012, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooz182
Probably Stalinist terror during the 30's or Mao's great leap forward, estimated around 100 million died under those two tyrants, either by forced starvation, execution, torture just to fill quotas, and on top of that there were plenty of cases of family members resorting to eating their own kids, however for some strange reason we hear little about that compared to the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany. The 20th century was for sure the most systematically cruelest century ever, hopefully the 21st will be a lot tamer.
I think the reasons the Nazi's are seen as worse was they set out to eliminate an entire race/ religon where as the deaths that occured in the Gulag were a by product of the camps not the explicit aim
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooz182
Probably Stalinist terror during the 30's or Mao's great leap forward, estimated around 100 million died under those two tyrants, either by forced starvation, execution, torture just to fill quotas, and on top of that there were plenty of cases of family members resorting to eating their own kids, however for some strange reason we hear little about that compared to the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany. The 20th century was for sure the most systematically cruelest century ever, hopefully the 21st will be a lot tamer.
History is written by the victors, as we all know.

The whole of the west is scared to criticise Mao as to not offend everyones favorite trading partners.
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