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  #41  
Old 28-05-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy
Quite - See it for yourself... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18192375

When you watch that video and see those poor blokes getting a kicking then no help after it does make me think is it worth it over a sport ? So glad it's more or less gone out of our football, that vid alone makes me lose interest.
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  #42  
Old 28-05-2012, 01:58 PM
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As always lately - different issues getting blurred so the truth and logic gets lost.

1. There is a dreadful problem in the old Eastern Block with racism & general prejudice - not just in football but in society - I work a lot over there and the attitudes are like they were here 20 or more years ago.
2. There is a huge problem, widely reports with fan violence at old Eastern block matches, often racist and fascist, - again, well proven and documented time and time again with fines and bans
3. Ukraine (not Poland) had a very poor human rights record and probably UEFA should have thought twice about giving them the Euros, after all, the Beijing Olympics didn't suddenly liberate Chinese society and free the political activists?

All of those facts are not in dispute and Ukrainian police tazering violent fans is an issue for Ukraine and maybe even understandable given the level of violence at matches.

None of this is to do with "modern football" and if any Palace fans see this sort of behaviour as a beacon of how football was so much better in the 1970s then they should get their heads examined.

Protest about modern football's corporatism, bloated finances, disregard to fans with KO times etc etc

Set up enthusiastic fans groups to shout the team on etc, wave flags, bang drums

But please don't associate our club with the behaviour of the Ultras etc in Eastern Europe.
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  #43  
Old 28-05-2012, 02:08 PM
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I understand some of the sentiments from the native fans as I share probably similar views with regards to the Olympics in London.

However I can't help but get the feeling the media are feeding the racist scumbag's a bit too much, don't get me wrong the problems with racism are very well documented over there but the way the media are pouncing on it at the moment is very strange. Constant every day bombardment from every angle scaring fans from what would ultimately I imagine will be a very nice trip for those lucky enough to go.

Stick a camera in front of 10 guys who want to be 'hooligans' it's obvious what trash will come out their mouths.
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  #44  
Old 28-05-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switchboard
I understand some of the sentiments from the native fans as I share probably similar views with regards to the Olympics in London.

However I can't help but get the feeling the media are feeding the racist scumbag's a bit too much, don't get me wrong the problems with racism are very well documented over there but the way the media are pouncing on it at the moment is very strange. Constant every day bombardment from every angle scaring fans from what would ultimately I imagine will be a very nice trip for those lucky enough to go.

Stick a camera in front of 10 guys who want to be 'hooligans' it's obvious what trash will come out their mouths.

So you will be casually abusing and hitting passing back or Asian fans in Stratford? Strange.....

I like Poland a lot, and have good friends there, but racism is still engrained in society. Normal middle class professionals come out with things that would make most western European's blanche. Take that into the hard line working class and it becomes very unpleasant. It is being reported because the event is coming up, simple as that.
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  #45  
Old 28-05-2012, 02:20 PM
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So you will be casually abusing and hitting passing back or Asian fans in Stratford? Strange.....

Yes that is exactly what I meant
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  #46  
Old 28-05-2012, 02:27 PM
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These Nazi groups are a select amount of people, how dangerous they can be and what actions they will indeed take we'll sadly just have to wait until the tournament starts but they are just part of a number of catalogue of problems.

This goes a lot deeper than these groups, currently the media are only scratching the surface as to why there are such protests. When looking deeper into this you will find how the fans in Poland have been oppressed, where the media used to promote fan led actions in the stand using the use of their pyrotechnics, choreographies in their newspapers, then in the run up to the Euro the media together with the government have sought to highlight ultras as criminals, drug dealers, thieves and gang leaders away from football, in order to portray ultras as the biggest problem in the country, while the fans and ultra groups recognise that there is deeper problems within the country. This then led to many protests against the government, media and UEFA. (Click the link below, which is from last year)
http://www.ultras-tifo.net/photo-new...-03052011.html

The fans see this as a huge chance to embarrass their government and get some revenge, others of course see it as a chance to stamp their political agendas which is being vastly highlighted in the media at the moment.
However, there are many issues surrounding these nations and why there citizens are protesting against the Euro 2012 coming over such as the killing of stray dogs, feminists against the spread of sexual diseases, fans against modern football and of course the highlighted police brutality. Sadly, many of the issues will be overshadowed due to this nazi/racist hooliganism.

Questions have to be asked of that of the governments, UEFA and Polish/Ukraine FA are bringing the tournament to countries with such problems.
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  #47  
Old 28-05-2012, 02:42 PM
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Theo Walcott's and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain's families aren't going to the Euros because of racism fears. Can't John Terry just stay in another hotel?


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  #48  
Old 28-05-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentAssassin
The fans see this as a huge chance to embarrass their government and get some revenge, others of course see it as a chance to stamp their political agendas which is being vastly highlighted in the media at the moment.
However, there are many issues surrounding these nations and why there citizens are protesting against the Euro 2012 coming over such as the killing of stray dogs, feminists against the spread of sexual diseases, fans against modern football and of course the highlighted police brutality. Sadly, many of the issues will be overshadowed due to this nazi/racist hooliganism.

Think this paragraph is an excellent summary of the issues faced.

It is shocking to see some of the scenes out there and amazing how so many see them as acceptable. And I bet there is going to be huge trouble during the tournament yet so very little of it will actually be reported, if any.
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  #49  
Old 28-05-2012, 03:32 PM
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I'm looking forward to it. Proper summer of sport.
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  #50  
Old 28-05-2012, 03:46 PM
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Yes, euro 2012 will be very interesting this year I hope that everything will be peaceful.
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  #51  
Old 29-05-2012, 08:19 AM
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those Ukrainian and Polish Ultras on Panorama last night seemed like a nice bunch.

Unless you are Jewish, Black or Asian.
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  #52  
Old 29-05-2012, 10:48 AM
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I remember two years ago in South Africa, prior to the World Cup, the BBC & SSN done a similar sensationalist thing on crime over there saying they would be massive problems etc - What happened ? I do not remember anything being reported at all

Crime, poverty and racism are deep rooted, almost systematic problems in many societies, not just in Eastern Europe.

Complex problems that won't be solved by 30 minutes of a documentary. Perhaps given the reaction these seem to get, one wonders if this is BBC & SSN sticking the middle finger upto UEFA & FIFA for not awarding England the world cup hosting, perhaps that's being too cynical.

Anyway, I await a panorama/SSN show on the the social problems in working class areas of London, along with images of the riots etc before the olympics.
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  #53  
Old 29-05-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switchboard

Anyway, I await a panorama/SSN show on the the social problems in working class areas of London, along with images of the riots etc before the olympics.

Not in any way a relevant comparison. The rioting was (so far) a one off event which will be 12 months past by the time the Olympics starts and had no links to sport of any sort. Similarly, the program last night did not focus on social issues - except in the context of football. The program was about a football tournament and featured footage of football based violence, racism and antisemitism filmed over a recent two month period.

I am really not sure of your point here? Is the behaviour of those fans justified in your eyes in some way due to social issues or are you convinced it is pure scaremongering?

The S Africa example is also not relevant as again - the violence in SA (and there is a lot - I have visited several times and while it is a great country I was not allowed by my hosts to travel in other than company approved cabs and personal cars) is crime not football related. And it can be argued that the awareness raising before the WC did its job in keeping fans away from potentially dangerous situations.
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  #54  
Old 29-05-2012, 11:19 AM
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I have been to Poland on a stag do with a group of black/white lads and had no problems with anyone, complete opposite in fact great bunch of locals.

I was watching last night thinking could the same style film be shot in England, ring up EDL HQ follow them around at football, few beers flowing eventually they would slip up with some nazi salutes. You can probably catch a few racist comments around stadiums. On the pitch racism has been rife this season, off it a few news stories have incited racism is still in the stadiums.

I am not going to the Euro's, it saddens me to think Oxlade-chamberlains family aren't going out to watch him over fears of racist attacks, I just can't see on the big stage with the whole world watching fans would have the balls to do it, especially not attack a players family.
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Old 29-05-2012, 06:07 PM
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  #56  
Old 29-05-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palace Rebel
I have been to Poland on a stag do with a group of black/white lads and had no problems with anyone, complete opposite in fact great bunch of locals.

I was watching last night thinking could the same style film be shot in England, ring up EDL HQ follow them around at football, few beers flowing eventually they would slip up with some nazi salutes. You can probably catch a few racist comments around stadiums. On the pitch racism has been rife this season, off it a few news stories have incited racism is still in the stadiums.

I am not going to the Euro's, it saddens me to think Oxlade-chamberlains family aren't going out to watch him over fears of racist attacks, I just can't see on the big stage with the whole world watching fans would have the balls to do it, especially not attack a players family.


Neither is Walcotts family
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  #57  
Old 29-05-2012, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palace Rebel
I have been to Poland on a stag do with a group of black/white lads and had no problems with anyone, complete opposite in fact great bunch of locals.

I was watching last night thinking could the same style film be shot in England, ring up EDL HQ follow them around at football, few beers flowing eventually they would slip up with some nazi salutes. You can probably catch a few racist comments around stadiums. On the pitch racism has been rife this season, off it a few news stories have incited racism is still in the stadiums.

I am not going to the Euro's, it saddens me to think Oxlade-chamberlains family aren't going out to watch him over fears of racist attacks, I just can't see on the big stage with the whole world watching fans would have the balls to do it, especially not attack a players family.

Good point. In actual fact, the BBC themselves produced a documentary a few years back about the links between Chelsea Headhunters, the National Front and the neonazi skinhead group Combat 18. People are shocked about what these Poles are doing but there's nowhere near the same outrage about the chants to Spurs fans during London derbies about Hitler gassing them again?
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  #58  
Old 29-05-2012, 06:45 PM
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All trying to stir up tensions and sell papers and up ratings / figures.
You could produce the same type of story in any country.
As someone said remember all the warnings before the South Africa world cup with warnings of Kidnap, muggings, rape and murder and what happen....
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  #59  
Old 29-05-2012, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bonzo
All trying to stir up tensions and sell papers and up ratings / figures.
You could produce the same type of story in any country.
As someone said remember all the warnings before the South Africa world cup with warnings of Kidnap, muggings, rape and murder and what happen....

Yes I agree somewhat, but I do believe there are a number of Ukraine fans who will be relishing the game against England.

We have a reputation abroad (which I do not believe is true any more). However, other sets of fans who are 'up for it' will be out to prove themselves against us.

South Africa was the fear of what would happen to fans away from the games. This is a threat of violence at the games and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were a few incidents.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:19 PM
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waddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of minewaddoneagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mine
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