Industrial action by Doctors - right or wrong?

[GreatGonzo]

Couldn't see this being discussed but for the first time in 40 years Doctors are taking industrial action on 21st June.

They are not going on strike, even though more than 2/3rds of those who voted voted for it, but they will cancel all routine work and deal only with emergency/urgent work. This action, short of a full strike, recieved 79% support and therefor 43% of all doctors agreed to it, with younger doctors in greater agreement.

Considering the BMA only agreed to pension reform 4 years ago and has not been properly consulted on the latest change and with the NHS pension scheme apparently running a £2bn surplus year on year are they right to take industrial action? For those not familiar with the detail, a doctor will be reuqired to work until 68 to get a full pension and will have to pay 14.5% of salary into it, about double a similarly paid civil servant would for the same pension.

[Pistol Knight]

Didnt thay have their wages doubled a few years back?

and they will already get a £68,000 a year pension!

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by Pistol Knight

Didnt thay have their wages doubled a few years back?

and they will already get a £68,000 a year pension!

Not quite no.

[pete eagle]

I think that given the times - people will find it hard to be sympathetic with their cause seeing as they well paid for what they do with very good pensions compared to most.

I see their point regarding the reform to civil service pensions but strike action seems to be a really bad way of getting any sympathy.

[OscillateWildly]

Originally Posted by Pistol Knight

Didnt thay have their wages doubled a few years back?

and they will already get a £68,000 a year pension!

They are some of the brightest and best of every generation.

When you consider that some city boys would regard that salary as an insult it is a fair wage.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by OscillateWildly

They are some of the brightest and best of every generation.

When you consider that some city boys would regard that salary as an insult it is a fair wage.

That's a fair point - but the question is about striking.

At what point is a privileged profession allowed to say we want more money when everyone else is tightening belts?

[Mat ov CPFC]

Mixed feelings on this one.

On the one hand I can see why they may want to take industrial action because the Government is messing them about.

But on the other, I feel that being a Doctor should be about more than just a job and conditions and as such would expect a 'good' Doctor to work on regardless.

[mushroom]

Originally Posted by Maz

That's a fair point - but the question is about striking.

At what point is a privileged profession allowed to say we want more money when everyone else is tightening belts?

I don't think "everyone" is tightening their belts.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by mushroom

I don't think "everyone" is tightening their belts.

In the public sector they are.

And in much of the private sector as well.

So pretty much everyone, yes.

[bourne man]

A worthy profession, who deserve to be treated fairly
Just because they get a good pension does not mean they, or any of us should have it reduced because the banks f##ked up and the countries got no money
None of us should have to endure a drop in living standards purely to pay back the tax used to keep corporate greed afloat

[adrenalin john]

Have to say Doctors have every right to be aggrieved about changing the goalposts. However labour ridiculously over-increased their salaries for no return

[adrenalin john]

Originally Posted by mushroom

I don't think "everyone" is tightening their belts.

Sadly not me, been putting weight on hand-over-fist

[Pistol Knight]

Originally Posted by bourne man

A worthy profession, who deserve to be treated fairly
Just because they get a good pension does not mean they, or any of us should have it reduced because the banks f##ked up and the countries got no money
None of us should have to endure a drop in living standards purely to pay back the tax used to keep corporate greed afloat

Without massive tax increases Pension are unsustanable for everyone

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by adrenalin john

Have to say Doctors have every right to be aggrieved about changing the goalposts. However labour ridiculously over-increased their salaries for no return

Not sure many doctors would agree with that. When their pay went up lots of targets came in, lots at hospital and even more for GP's. The majority of teh pay increase came through QOF which means GP's do far more preventative medicine and call patients in to check them rather than relying on the patient to initiate contact.

A lot of that pay increase also goes on the costs of providing that increased level of service.

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by Pistol Knight

Without massive tax increases Pension are unsustanable for everyone

The point being made by the BMA is that the NHS Pension scheme since the 2008 changes IS sustainable and currently runs at a surplus.

[OscillateWildly]

Originally Posted by adrenalin john

Have to say Doctors have every right to be aggrieved about changing the goalposts. However labour ridiculously over-increased their salaries for no return

I think that's a fair point. Labour did not cover themselves in glory on this and their wages were put up by far too much.

But these contracts have only recently been agreed.

Also, once again we face a race to the bottom. "my pension is shit so everyone else's should be."

Private sector pensions have been brutally cut while the top bosses have seen their pay and benefits rise and rise. That's what people should be angry about.

[OscillateWildly]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

A lot of that pay increase also goes on the costs of providing that increased level of service.

Speaking of service I do think GPs in particular should be far more flexible when it comes to working patterns. All surgery should open late and on weekends with doctors on a rota covering these hours.

[Maz]

lol@bosses.

Like being back in the 1970s.

[adrenalin john]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

Not sure many doctors would agree with that. When their pay went up lots of targets came in, lots at hospital and even more for GP's. The majority of teh pay increase came through QOF which means GP's do far more preventative medicine and call patients in to check them rather than relying on the patient to initiate contact.

A lot of that pay increase also goes on the costs of providing that increased level of service.

I'll take your word for it GG, you work in this area do you not. If labour's reforms were effective then that is good to hear.

Obviously the billions upon billions spent on computerisation has been a dreadful failure.

I understand the PCT's who do most of the 'purchasing' are now running pretty well but Lansley is completely removing them so as GP's can become businessmen as well as Doctors.

I would love to know more. As an occassional patient/observer the NHS seemed to improve immensely under Labour, as a businessman I would love to properly study and understand its organisational structure.

My main concern is to remain a patient rather than a cost centre.

Have to say I have never been 'called-in'

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by OscillateWildly

But these contracts have only recently been agreed.

GP Contract was in 2004, pension agreement in 2008.

There will be a new GP contract from next April.