Pay and conditions of NHS staff to be cut

[saul1664]

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/n...hours/?ref=twt

A disturbing and divisive attempt to cut pay and conditions for NHS staff has been rearing its ugly head over the last few months. Someone has now leaked it to the press.

See the report above. Know the Swindon Advertiser isn't the paragon of objective journalism, but was leaked to The Telegraph first.

What it doesn't state is that the 19 trusts, took 10K each to break away (this was money that should have been earmarked for patient care) to try and change the terms and conditions agreed by Agenda for Change years ago.

Despite what they say about staff being informed, this is complete nonsense, what is quoted in the article is a cut and paste from their own intranet, there's been no consultation with staff, nor contact with unions either.

What they want to do and the most controversial thing is:

To cut unsocial hours payments (i.e. so you would get the same pay at your basic rate now for nights as days, and bank holidays and Christmas Day for example) - this would equate to a £300 a month pay loss for an average NHS employee on the nursing spectrum. This is on top of a 2 year pay freeze, further pay increases after the two years after that linked to below 1% and a doubling of pension contributions for less of a pension.

This obviously opens up a lot of implications for future care and the privatisation of core services.

[rhino_mik]

"We’re discussing this issue on a regular basis with our Employee Partnership Forum whose role it is to represent the views of staff and we’ll be keeping them closely informed of this work as it develops.”

lol

I can imagine the view of all staff is "Don't cut my pay!" and I'm not sure it will be represented!

[Crofty]

Originally Posted by saul1664

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/n...hours/?ref=twt

A disturbing and divisive attempt to cut pay and conditions for NHS staff has been rearing its ugly head over the last few months. Someone has now leaked it to the press.

See the report above. Know the Swindon Advertiser isn't the paragon of objective journalism, but was leaked to The Telegraph first.

What it doesn't state is that the 19 trusts, took 10K each to break away (this was money that should have been earmarked for patient care) to try and change the terms and conditions agreed by Agenda for Change years ago.

Despite what they say about staff being informed, this is complete nonsense, what is quoted in the article is a cut and paste from their own intranet, there's been no consultation with staff, nor contact with unions either.

What they want to do and the most controversial thing is:

To cut unsocial hours payments (i.e. so you would get the same pay at your basic rate now for nights as days, and bank holidays and Christmas Day for example) - this would equate to a £300 a month pay loss for an average NHS employee on the nursing spectrum. This is on top of a 2 year pay freeze, further pay increases after the two years after that linked to below 1% and a doubling of pension contributions for less of a pension.

This obviously opens up a lot of implications for future care and the privatisation of core services.

Yet more cowardly Tory Bullshit...they will crash and burn

[saul1664]

Originally Posted by rhino_mik

lol

I can imagine the view of all staff is "Don't cut my pay!" and I'm not sure it will be represented!

It's nonsense. There is no staff representation on this forum and they don't answer questions and report on meetings. Interesting that "the confidential document" was drafted in January 2012 and yet they only put it on their website intranet a week ago, has been no staff consultation at all.

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by Crofty

Yet more cowardly Tory Bullshit...they will crash and burn

Cowardly Tory Bullshit how?

All trusts across the country are trying to save a lot of money as the NHS was financially spiralling out of control.

This is a specific Trust or set of Trusts making choices and decisions, rather than a national or political decision.

[Crofty]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

Cowardly Tory Bullshit how?

All trusts across the country are trying to save a lot of money as the NHS was financially spiralling out of control.

This is a specific Trust or set of Trusts making choices and decisions, rather than a national or political decision.

Gonzo my man...you should know by now that I am tired of even attempting to debate things with you. Trying to base wages on regional pay rates within the NHS is just ONE more attack by the Tories on the NHS. Please feel free to be the BBS's Cowardly Tory Bullshitter de nos Jour but don't try to drag me into your stinking right wing mire. OK?

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by Crofty

Gonzo my man...you should know by now that I am tired of even attempting to debate things with you. Trying to base wages on regional pay rates within the NHS is just ONE more attack by the Tories on the NHS. Please feel free to be the BBS's Cowardly Tory Bullshitter de nos Jour but don't try to drag me into your stinking right wing mire. OK?

You see i disagree with you because i think this is a very serious situation, that the NHS is under pressure and that there are a lot of problems.

Your petty political motivations belittle what was going to be an issue no matter who was in power as you party of choice have also admitted changes were needed.

The way they are talking about making changes in the South West has wide ranging ramifications across the NHS about how other Trusts might follow suit. Regionalised pay rates already exist in effect with London weighting, and they actually make a lot of sense if someone can find a way of implementing it properly.

In South London Trusts have been merging, services are being taken out of some locations and they are saving money in other ways. This is the direct attack on pay and conditions and the outcome of it will be important.

I think there will be a lot of downward pressure on pay within hospitals, however this will only be a case of following the trend from Primary Care where that pressure has been going on for several year already. This has lead to an issue with Doctors wishing to go into Primary Care or Secondary/Tertiary where pay has not suffered the same.

However to look to dismiss and rehire the same people is outrageous. I suspect some will look to pressurise changes in Agenda for Change as well.

[saul1664]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

You see i disagree with you because i think this is a very serious situation, that the NHS is under pressure and that there are a lot of problems.

Your petty political motivations belittle what was going to be an issue no matter who was in power as you party of choice have also admitted changes were needed.

The way they are talking about making changes in the South West has wide ranging ramifications across the NHS about how other Trusts might follow suit. Regionalised pay rates already exist in effect with London weighting, and they actually make a lot of sense if someone can find a way of implementing it properly.

In South London Trusts have been merging, services are being taken out of some locations and they are saving money in other ways. This is the direct attack on pay and conditions and the outcome of it will be important.

I think there will be a lot of downward pressure on pay within hospitals, however this will only be a case of following the trend from Primary Care where that pressure has been going on for several year already. This has lead to an issue with Doctors wishing to go into Primary Care or Secondary/Tertiary where pay has not suffered the same.

However to look to dismiss and rehire the same people is outrageous. I suspect some will look to pressurise changes in Agenda for Change as well.

They are trying to change the whole contract that was agreed in Agenda for Change as a national agreement by breaking away and changing terms and conditions as they feel fit. This is why it is a contentious issue.

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by saul1664

They are trying to change the whole contract that was agreed in Agenda for Change as a national agreement by breaking away and changing terms and conditions as they feel fit. This is why it is a contentious issue.

Indeed, i can see Agenda for Change coming under pressure nationally the way things are going, but what they are doing in basically tearing up contracts is terrible.

Agenda for Change has done a lot of good but it may not still be 100% right nowas times have changed a little.

[CallMeBernard]

I have been told that they may start introducing performance related pay to staff. God knows how that will work.

Apparently as well band 8's will have gateway appraisals for every yearly increment, rather than the current top & bottom agreement.

[rhino_mik]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

Indeed, i can see Agenda for Change coming under pressure nationally the way things are going, but what they are doing in basically tearing up contracts is terrible.

Agenda for Change has done a lot of good but it may not still be 100% right nowas times have changed a little.

I am sure that making the NHS a less desirable place to work is not the way to drive up standards and lower costs in the long term.

[ChickenDipper]

People who work on the NHS deserve a lot more money than they currently get. Their pay is disgraceful for the things they have to do. I know binmen who are paid better.

[GreatGonzo]

Originally Posted by ChickenDipper

People who work on the NHS deserve a lot more money than they currently get. Their pay is disgraceful for the things they have to do. I know binmen who are paid better.

How much are people in the NHS paid and how much do you think they should be paid?

[saul1664]

The amount is an irrelevance, it's the steady and secretive erosion of agreed terms and conditions, would you continue to work in a job that despite all the shit you get, you work every xmas, every bank holiday, work at least 10 hours a week extra for no reward, no pay, no time back in lieu, and then someone then changes your pension so you pay in more and get less, and shafts you of at least 5K a year.

[saul1664]

This is the document from the cartel, note this has NOT been discussed with any staff.

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/...ges_1_27.pd f

[saul1664]

Page 5 sets out what they want to do.

In effect for shortage

1. Cut sick pay
2. Cut all unsocial hours payments
3. Reduce incremental pay rises on top of pay freeze
4. Reduce annual leave
5. Increase work hours.

[Heb 7:4]

Good ol Dave

[Crofty]

Originally Posted by Heb 7:4

Good ol Dave

Coc*sucking Motherfuc*ing heartless Tory Cu*t...what a ******* shower of *****!

[Crofty]

Originally Posted by GreatGonzo

How much are people in the NHS paid and how much do you think they should be paid?

Stop being a Tory apologist for the Right you coward.

[Crofty]

Originally Posted by Heb 7:4

Good ol Dave

How did so many voters in this country fall for that bullsh*t? Absolute lies masquerading as promises when all the time they knew that they wanted to do what Thatcher didn't dare. Destabalise and then dismantle / demolish the NHS. Heartless Tory millionaire Cun*s