A moment of realism on transfers

[Martin H]

Rather than clog up the RMcC thread further I thought I would muse on the reality of where we will be when the season starts.

We got off to a good start with Wilbrahim, Ward and Aaron Martin and these were followed by a flurry of interesting/exciting names and I for one started to get carried away with it. The reality is that we do have to make every penny count. On top of that we have lost our top 2 in the scouting system (I can't imagine we have a lot more than that anyway!) and this must impact our assessments and insights. Add to this a naturally cautious manager who has lost one of his trusted advisors (Poppy) and nothing will happen quickly.

So Doog is turning to scientific assessment of fitness and will I suspect look to cut deals that have loans wih option to purchase. All of this driven by a desire to avoid he risk of a mistake. Tbh, it reflects what we have seen in Doogie's rein to date. So expecting 3 or 4 permanent signing is very unlikely? A couple of loans are more likely. Maybe one full season that is expected to go back and a couple of short termers with a view to buy/sign. These will come later. We will likely start the season short of depth.

[Steve RJS]

How can we build a team for the future with loan signings ?

Madness

[Markluke]

Originally Posted by Steve RJS

How can we build a team for the future with loan signings ?

Madness

Understand your frustration but many teams have gained promotion with loan signings. Remember Ashley Cole ? Was he a bad idea.

[Dave]

Promotion. Really?

[Markluke]

Originally Posted by Dave

Promotion. Really?

I don't mean they gained promotion as a result of loan signings but certainly including a number of them in team. QPR, Norwich, Swansea and Blackpool all had loan signings in their promotion teams did they not ?
It's just a financial reality in the Championship.

[jobiinthelastmi]

poor window so far

Started off well, but we've lost key players and as it stands we are much weaker than last season.

[sincil palace]

Apparently we have no money or very little,so what do you expect,anyone would have thought we have sold some players and pocketed the money.

[Gerry from Sussex]

I'm as guilty as the next bloke of getting over-excited about transfer rumours. It's only natural as the triumph of hope over expectation is the essence of being a footy fan!!

After I stepped back a bit though I did think we should not read too much into what SP and co have said about our "substantial" transfer budget. It's all relative. For a loss making club recovering from a decade of mismanagement even a million pounds is probably a substantial budget and I reckon Dougie must have spent half of that already. I don't know but am also guessing that SP was hoping to have got a decent amount for Clyne without having to wait for the tribunal. If so, that would have counted towards the "substantial" budget talked about - but now may or may not materialise and Dougie can't spend what he hasn't got yet.

Even so, given that I have spent every summer since 1968 making myself believe that this season is going to be great I can't stop now. So, I'll convince myself that it's still possible that what looks like a weaker squad on paper actually turns out to be stronger simply because the players we have now will work better as a unit. You never know, it may even turn out to be true!!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Markluke

I don't mean they gained promotion as a result of loan signings but certainly including a number of them in team. QPR, Norwich, Swansea and Blackpool all had loan signings in their promotion teams did they not ?
It's just a financial reality in the Championship.

What has promotion got to do with Palace, July 2012? Why bring it up?

[exiledeagle]

Always find it strange that transfers are left so late ? You would think that during the latter part of season 2011 -2012 , we would have identified / made tentative enquiries about players we have an interest in . It seems the same during January transfer window , panic moves on the last day .
The above doesnt just apply to us as it appears most clubs are the same . The problem we have is that our squad is just so short of depth , that we realy need 4 solid signings to avoid a season of struggle . Maybe there is a cash flow issue with no income from gate receipts during the summer , thus the sales of Ambrose , Scannell and Clyne ? For the record i have no issue with those sales , just hope that we get 3 permanent and maybe 1 loan before season starts .

[Penstone Eagle]

Originally Posted by jobiinthelastmi

poor window so far

Started off well, but we've lost key players and as it stands we are much weaker than last season.

Careful, you'll be called a 'glass half full' person, being realistic is often confused with this

[CPFC_DAVE77]

We need to be shrewd, which we are trying to be. The fact is that many clubs in our division are in the same financial position, the ball is in the selling club/players' court. This window I predict to liven up a bit close to the end. We will not start the season with all our signings in place.

[Markluke]

Originally Posted by Dave

What has promotion got to do with Palace, July 2012? Why bring it up?

I'm not sure I understand your question.
My response was to a post complaining about loan signings.
I don't think Palace will go up this season if that is what you are suggesting but that does not have any baring on the validity of loans.
I would like to see signed players but like many others I could be disappointed.
Lets see what happens before we judge.

[Dave]

Because you say that loan signings are good in the context of teams getting promoted are you also saying they are good for teams in the bottom half struggling to stay up?

[LLCOOLSTEVE]

Originally Posted by Penstone Eagle

Careful, you'll be called a 'glass half full' person, being realistic is often confused with this

glass half empty you mean?

[pauldrulez]

Originally Posted by jobiinthelastmi

poor window so far

Started off well, but we've lost key players and as it stands we are much weaker than last season.

Key...

Clyne replaced by Ward
Gardner replaced by Martin
Ambrose doesn't fit.
Scannell is barely a Championship quality player.

Wilbraham looks talented.
Williams is returning from injury.
The young players are a year older.

And there's still 5 weeks left of the window...

[Markluke]

Originally Posted by Dave

Because you say that loan signings are good in the context of teams getting promoted are you also saying they are good for teams in the bottom half struggling to stay up?

Depends on who you loan. Like any signing, it's the proof of the pudding.
A good Premiership loan could be better than a cheap or free player from league 1, or not.

[Dave]

I give up

[elgin eagle]

Sad as it is, the fact is the fans won't come back in numbers until we are promoted and/or have a new ground like brighton.

they have seen their attendances rise from 6000 to over 20000 in just 2 years. Its quite feasible our attendances could rise much higher than that seeing as we already have a base of 14000. We have to hope that the owners vision for a new stadium isnt just that. The hard fact is, to go forward the club needs investment either in the infrastructure or on the playing staff, or the club will simply stagnate, as brighton did for many years.

i believe we are heading for sub 10,000 attendances if something isn't done very soon about the tactics, therefore it is vital for the management to identify players that will be able to get us a shot at the play offs, if they are not looking or are unable to increase the fan base by investing in a new stadium.

I think we are definitely going forward as a club in general otherwise, the academy is great and the owners are the best we've ever had. I just think that simply aiming to survive in this division year after year isn't really taking us forward. A lot of clubs have gone down to league 1 and come back stronger in recent times, i'm sure we wouldn't take that route out of choice, but without a creative, goalscoring side thats the direction we are going, make no mistake.

When i first started going to palace in the late seventies, there was a feeling about the place that we were a massive sleeping giant. We had huge crowds, owing to the large stadium, cheap entrance prices, and bright young manager and good young squad. We may have lost a large part of the stadium and certainly the cheap entrance prices have gone, but we do still have another bright young manager and the basis of a good team for a good few years to come.

We all like to joke about how many plastic fans brighton have gained since moving to the gaymex, but arent we just as guilty of something similar, whenever we go up, even staying at selhurst we always gain 6000 by promotion and lose them following relegation.

I really hope the owners are able to fulfil their intention to give dougie a stronger squad in the short term, and the club a bigger, better ground in the long term. We have to be realistic, we are no longer that massive, sleeping giant, but we do need to get into the top league before things will start to go forward. To do that, we have to have a squad that is capable of creating chance after chance for 90 minutes, and be relentless at it, like southampton last season. We have to hope that investment will be made available to dougie to go out and get these forward thinking players, instead of fielding sides that are only able to stifle the opposition and then try to nick a goal.

[Martin H]

For my part I wasn't expressing a view on the status being either right or wrong, but rather concentrating on seeing what is happening for what it really IS rather than being disappointed daily that RMcC hasn't signed yet.
I suppose, in a way, I am using the post to reset my own expectations and de-stress a little. Theraputic!

I do think that an outcome of this 'approach' will find us short at the beginning of the season and far too reliant upon our youngsters who instead of playing cameo roles and the odd game at the eof season, will find themselves pushed into the team far too often this side of Xmas and then disappointed in the second half once we have redressed things. It's all supposition but a real risk. Interestingly didn't Burley go because he hadn't got players in despite having budget etc. ?

So having relaxed by re-setting expectations I can now stress about the inadequacies of our squad and getting off to a poor start! You just have to love supporting Palace huh?