Dark matter.

[Mat ov CPFC]

Here is one for you BBS science geeks out there.

I watched an Hoizon programe last night about how cosmologists have set out to 'map' the universe. Outside of being blown away by the claims that our galaxy has up to half a trillion stars in it and is only one of 170 billion galaxies what I struggled to comprehend was this.

Apparently one of the things that has totally stumped them is that the research has shown that the expansion of the universe is actually speeding up as opposed, if you take the normal laws of gravity into account, should be slowing up as it grows. They put this down to this mysterious 'dark matter' which they said makes up 5/6 of everything with claims that its actually anti-gravity which actually pushes things apart as opposed to causing them to attract (probably got that wrong but thats how I understood it).

Now with my slow and booze damaged brain chugging over I am guessing that if they can somehow identify this dark matter and harness it then in conjuction with gravity you could come up with perpetual motion and within that perhaps the ultimate energy force ? Or am I missing something fundamental ?

All explanations in big letters please. Ta.

[OscillateWildly]

Dark matter may not exist. It is hypothetical and is only needed because current understanding cannot account for all matter (or the vast majority of matter.)

The answer may not be dark matter at all.

The universe may really be not only queerer than we suppose but queerer than we can suppose.

[Oisin]

Good lecture on TED YouTube site on this. Google it.

[TheJudge]

Originally Posted by OscillateWildly

Dark matter may not exist. It is hypothetical and is only needed because current understanding cannot account for all matter (or the vast majority of matter.)

The answer may not be dark matter at all.

The universe may really be not only queerer than we suppose but queerer than we can suppose.

The universe is still expanding at an ever increasing rate and is probably infinite. There is not enough visible matter to explain the amount of gravity in the universe hence the necessary theoretical extra matter required is called "dark matter". With that amount of existing gravity the universe should be slowing down but is apparently doing the opposite which is still a mystery.

[OscillateWildly]

Originally Posted by TheJudge

The universe is still expanding at an ever increasing rate and is probably infinite. There is not enough visible matter to explain the amount of gravity in the universe hence the necessary theoretical extra matter required is called "dark matter". With that amount of existing gravity the universe should be slowing down but is apparently doing the opposite which is still a mystery.

Indeed.

But dark matter is a hypothetical solution to this problem which, while the best theory at the moment, could be wrong.

[TheJudge]

Originally Posted by OscillateWildly

Indeed.

But dark matter is a hypothetical solution to this problem which, while the best theory at the moment, could be wrong.

Yes, it is just a name for the theoretical missing matter which is predicted to exist.

[Mat ov CPFC]

Originally Posted by Oisin

Good lecture on TED YouTube site on this. Google it.

Thanks. Will look into that. Sounds like the sort of thing I would enjoy listening to on a car journey.

[delboy01]

I thought they said dark energy was the anti grav product.

Dark matter has gravity which should slow the acceleration of galaxies but they are getting faster the closer to the extremities of the known universe they are.

The other alternative was other universes which have their own gravatational force which is pulling the extreme galaxies faster.

This would make sense as well.

[Mat ov CPFC]

Originally Posted by delboy01

I thought they said dark energy was the anti grav product.

They might have. I was watching whilst laying on the sofa and feeling properly creamed after a busy bank holiday weekend on the back of flying back into the UK. It all made my head hurt a little hence this thread because me old crust has been trying to make sense of it all.

[Raggy]

Originally Posted by OscillateWildly

The universe may really be not only queerer than we suppose but queerer than we can suppose.

Are you calling the universe a puff?

[Patrick Dwyer]

Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC

Here is one for you BBS science geeks out there.

I watched an Hoizon programe last night about how cosmologists have set out to 'map' the universe. Outside of being blown away by the claims that our galaxy has up to half a trillion stars in it and is only one of 170 billion galaxies what I struggled to comprehend was this.

Apparently one of the things that has totally stumped them is that the research has shown that the expansion of the universe is actually speeding up as opposed, if you take the normal laws of gravity into account, should be slowing up as it grows. They put this down to this mysterious 'dark matter' which they said makes up 5/6 of everything with claims that its actually anti-gravity which actually pushes things apart as opposed to causing them to attract (probably got that wrong but thats how I understood it).

Now with my slow and booze damaged brain chugging over I am guessing that if they can somehow identify this dark matter and harness it then in conjuction with gravity you could come up with perpetual motion and within that perhaps the ultimate energy force ? Or am I missing something fundamental ?

All explanations in big letters please. Ta.

At a guess I would envisage that the Universe is already in perpetual motion anyway; just the same except changing 'form'. Just a guess mind you.

[MasterYoda]

Dark matter is what works to form the gravity that is keeping the universe in shape. Dark energy is what's keeping it accelerating.

Dark matter is almost certainly real and modern experimentation is starting to prove it backing up what the physics predicts.

The multiverse idea is a whole other kettle of fish but the 'bruised' CMB is the clearest indication that this theory might have legs

[Mat ov CPFC]

Originally Posted by MasterYoda

The multiverse idea is a whole other kettle of fish but the 'bruised' CMB is the clearest indication that this theory might have legs

You have to expand on that. In simple terms please.

[wedgetail]

Dark matter is physicists pixie dust that has whatever properties are required to make problems go away.

[matayusgiovanni]

Originally Posted by OscillateWildly

Dark matter may not exist. It is hypothetical and is only needed because current understanding cannot account for all matter (or the vast majority of matter.)

The answer may not be dark matter at all.

The universe may really be not only queerer than we suppose but queerer than we can suppose.

I knew it, the universe is gay and Dale Winton is god.

[TheJudge]

Originally Posted by MasterYoda

Dark matter is what works to form the gravity that is keeping the universe in shape. Dark energy is what's keeping it accelerating.

Dark matter is almost certainly real and modern experimentation is starting to prove it backing up what the physics predicts.

The multiverse idea is a whole other kettle of fish but the 'bruised' CMB is the clearest indication that this theory might have legs

As I understand it, the sentence I highlighted is incorrect.
The universe is expanding and excelerating despite gravitational forces which should, in theory, slow and eventually reverse the process. That is the mystery

[addopalace]

The point about it creating some kind of perpetual motion device is wrong as your suggestion involves two equal and opposite forces, namely gravity and dark energy. By this definition of a perpetual motion device, you could quite easily produce such a one by substituting dark matter for, say, solar energy or wind energy and even then, you wouldn't so much be assisted by the equal or opposite force in generating energy, you'd be impeded by it: it would make the whole system less efficient. And anyway, don't they just posit dark energy so as to get their calculations to work? Not entirely sure myself.

[richdeniro]

I think that there are lots of universes out there created by a big bang obviously billions and trillions of light years further out into space than our own observable universe.

They probably spin around each other much in the same way planets spin around stars systems and star systems spin around galaxies.

[TheJudge]

Originally Posted by addopalace

The point about it creating some kind of perpetual motion device is wrong as your suggestion involves two equal and opposite forces, namely gravity and dark energy. By this definition of a perpetual motion device, you could quite easily produce such a one by substituting dark matter for, say, solar energy or wind energy and even then, you wouldn't so much be assisted by the equal or opposite force in generating energy, you'd be impeded by it: it would make the whole system less efficient. And anyway, don't they just posit dark energy so as to get their calculations to work? Not entirely sure myself.

As I understand it. Dark matter is merely theoretical matter which cannot be seen directly as it emits no light. It has the same gravitational effect as observable matter.They do not work in opposition to each other but together create sufficient gravity to explain the observable universe.
Dark matter is the amount of matter that in theory is "missing" from the universal equasion.

[Raggy]

Dark matter is parallel dimensions and where they keep heaven and hell and all the dead souls and stuff.