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Where does free speech end and crime begin?
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  #1  
Old 12-10-2012, 10:05 AM
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Where does free speech end and crime begin?
Following from the shocking sentences handed out for tasteless humour on twitter.

It appears we are now jailing people for wearing offensive T shirts.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/anti-police...132134587.html

Only a fool would be unable to understand why this man caused grave offense to other people's sensibilities, but ultimately so what?

I am disgusted by many public utterances, pretty much on a daily basis, but people have to be absolutely free to express their opinions and sense of humour however disgraceful they may be.

Let's not forget the oral and written word is only the public manifestation of people's thoughts. Do we really want to legalise how people think?

This is far from being a free country
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2012, 10:11 AM
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:13 AM
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I don't want to legalise how people think, but there is clearly a limit as to how we should be allowed to express those thoughts in public. The people might think that God has killed a parents child to show his disapproval of societies acceptance of homosexual behaviour, but I don't know that I want the people to be able to go to that child's funeral, with banners and placards heckling the mourners.



So, where is the boundary? I'm not sure, but I doubt this guy would have been jailed if he wasn't already on a suspended sentence. He was being a deliberate cock, having previously gotten a warning for doing something else cockish, and it's hard to have too much sympathy even though I recognise that the boundaries of free speech are important.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:17 AM
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Strictly speaking he did not go to jail for the T-Shirt. Because he was already being sent to prison for another breach, he could not be fined or given community work according to the guidelines that exist.

So the judge had no choice - if he wanted to punish him for the T-Shirt - to make it custodial. That's a detail point, I guess, since the real question is whether or not what you wear should constitute a crime. (Fashionistas gag coming up?)
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:18 AM
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I tend to find myself agreeing with Heb for once on this sort of thing. There does have to be a line drawn in the sand with regards to what you can do in public.

Express a view on something like Facebook or Twitter, then as far as I am concerned people make a choice to view or use such a medium so therefore anything goes.

But walking down a street or a road, you should be able to do so with a degree of protection from things that are deemed offensive. And whilst I would agree that this is open to debate in terms of the definition, this particular t-shirt was very nasty and as such I have very little sympathy with the man being banged up.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:19 AM
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC
I have very little sympathy with the man being banged up.
His lawyer claims he has a mental health problem.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz
His lawyer claims he has a mental health problem.


Will he be struck off?
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:37 AM
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Those people who like Victoria Coren might like this - "It's easy for us peaceable western liberals to make a fuss when a likeable musician or poet is censored in a faraway country. But when it's a revolting moron being offensive in our own country, the point is still the same: you can't start sending people to prison for saying something you don't like."
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:46 AM
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The more this happens, the less we are shocked, the less we will complain.

It is highly offensive, but the guy should be ridiculed at every opportunity, not jailed for it. Jailing him gets other nutters, to take up his 'cause' and justify his anti police/justice stance.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:08 AM
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We can't walk down a street naked even though that is our natural state, so there is nothing new about restrictions of public behaviour.
Sending someone to prison for such an act is another matter. I don't know the statistics for sentencing for such offences historically but I would suggest that removing the person from the street and giving them a warning would be sufficient. Perhaps a fine for a repeated misdemeanours.
I would hate to see a country where freedom of expression was slowly eroded but would advocate a common sense approach to offending public displays.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling
It is highly offensive, but the guy should be ridiculed at every opportunity, not jailed for it.

I agree with this.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:08 PM
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I find this chaps attire offensive and antagonistic. As police monitor these boards could they please arrest him
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
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I find this chaps attire offensive and antagonistic. As police monitor these boards could they please arrest him


Christ it's the Halifaxman in Brighton Garb!!! Note Halifaxman's picture spitting image of the Scum fan.

Even wears the same glasses.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:36 PM
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I believe that punishment should always fit the crime.
So, if someone is wearing a T shirt saying what this T shirt did, the punishment should be that this man is not allowed to use the police services, and it should be publicised. Justice must, after all, be seen to be done.

Then, after/ if something unfortunate happens to this chappy, and he needs the police force to get an crime number for his nicked phone, or he gets in a pub brawl, or someone decides to burgle his house and the police response is 'tough' (or similar) he may well want to think about how useful it is to have a police force is, and that although the British version isn't perfect by any strectch, it's a damn sight better than many others and so much better than none at all.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:01 PM
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:05 PM
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I was going to say if it is worn to be antagonistic, then yes, but what if you wear a Palace shirt around London Bridge?
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeBernard
I believe that punishment should always fit the crime.
So, if someone is wearing a T shirt saying what this T shirt did, the punishment should be that this man is not allowed to use the police services, and it should be publicised. Justice must, after all, be seen to be done.

Then, after/ if something unfortunate happens to this chappy, and he needs the police force to get an crime number for his nicked phone, or he gets in a pub brawl, or someone decides to burgle his house and the police response is 'tough' (or similar) he may well want to think about how useful it is to have a police force is, and that although the British version isn't perfect by any strectch, it's a damn sight better than many others and so much better than none at all.

That's a magnificently barmy idea.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehalifaxman


I find this chaps attire offensive and antagonistic. As police monitor these boards could they please arrest him
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:41 PM
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Free speech in the UK isn't the same as Free Speech here in the US(this is one of the biggest difference I noticed when I moved here). In the US, you can express your view as you wish with no punishment(defamation aside). In the UK you can express your view with exceptions(for example hate/race/incitement etc is prohibited and can be punished).
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