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  #81  
Old 14-10-2013, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
An irrelevance, seeing as the police also said that the window in Maddie's bedroom could be opened from the outside.
Is it the original story was they used the front door to do the check, which then changed it meant the kids were locked in the apartment with no means of escape, they then admitted it was the patio door that was used. There is something else regarding the window but I forget now. It is the trouble with the case the stories were never consistent, in terms of the parents the positive side is they knew the reaction to the parenting skills would hinder the search, so made the storyline to protect themselves and gain support. However it has also had the negative side that has played out since.
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  #82  
Old 14-10-2013, 08:52 AM
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The whole world is expected to be moved to tears with compassion for this woman, this mother, because she’s lost her child, but where my sympathy lies is with a little girl who was left alone in a room, taken by a stranger, and then who knows what happened to her? The fact that that little girl was probably crying for her parents, frightened, and then has potentially been through the most unbearable ordeal subsequently, is a tragedy. When I saw Kate McCann crying on the news, clutching Madeleine’s cuddly cat, I didn’t feel moved; I felt revulsion. Then again its a fine line between sympathy and condemnation
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  #83  
Old 14-10-2013, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Is it the original story was they used the front door to do the check, which then changed it meant the kids were locked in the apartment with no means of escape, they then admitted it was the patio door that was used. There is something else regarding the window but I forget now. It is the trouble with the case the stories were never consistent, in terms of the parents the positive side is they knew the reaction to the parenting skills would hinder the search, so made the storyline to protect themselves and gain support. However it has also had the negative side that has played out since.
I don't think that theory holds too much credence personally. In the heat of the moment it is far too easy to forget certain details or confuse events and scenarios with other timelines in previous days.
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  #84  
Old 14-10-2013, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
If Madelaine was murdered, there was too little time elapsing for dogs to smell the issues emanating from a cadaver in the holiday apartment.
The dogs smelt death I was just pointing out the explaination to an earlier poster .

Last edited by racehorse-80s; 14-10-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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  #85  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Is it the original story was they used the front door to do the check, which then changed it meant the kids were locked in the apartment with no means of escape, they then admitted it was the patio door that was used. There is something else regarding the window but I forget now. It is the trouble with the case the stories were never consistent, in terms of the parents the positive side is they knew the reaction to the parenting skills would hinder the search, so made the storyline to protect themselves and gain support. However it has also had the negative side that has played out since.
But then crucified the Portuguese police who originally had only the McCanns and the Tapas 7s inaccurate timelines and other evidence to go on.
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  #86  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:03 AM
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Case solved by the BBS. Page35.
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  #87  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
The dogs smelt death I was just pointing out the explaination to an earlier poster ?
The dogs are trained to smell the gases of decomposition of dead bodies, "on the breeze". They follow this scent to the source of the smell, and hopefully then find the material evidence.

There was a case in America cited by the McCanns lawyers, based on evidence provided by "cadaver" dogs that was thrown out as unreliable. In both the American and the McCann's cases, no bodies or any human remains were found, which apparently have to be present for any evidence to be seen as conclusive. In other words, the dogs are an aid to detection, but not a means to convict.
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  #88  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:07 AM
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These are the photo fits
The Metropolitan Police have today released two new e-fit images, believed to be of the same man, seen in the Portuguese town of Praia da Luz at the time of Mad...eleine McCann's disappearance. The authorities want to question the suspect in the images, which were created from speaking to two people who were in the town on the night Madeleine vanished in 2007. Read the full story here: To view the link you have to Register or Login
If those two photofits are both supposed to be the same guy, I'm not sure they're going to be very helpful.
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  #89  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:09 AM
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The photofit on the right looks a lot like card magician I saw on Friday night
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  #90  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:09 AM
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If those two photofits are both supposed to be the same guy, I'm not sure they're going to be very helpful.
The man on the Right is Richard Keys, Case solved
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  #91  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:13 AM
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This is a highly emotive case in which people will fill in the gaps in the facts or evidence with speculation which itself is often derived from an inherent cynicism within people. As soon as a few days and weeks passed and there was no tanglible movement on this case where it was unclear if / how an abduction took place; when there were few or no suspects and there wasn't a clear motive it almost became an overwhelming sense that sooner or later the finger of blame was to be pointed at the McCann's and as soon as that happened, short of Madeleine returning, that was never going to wash away entirely.

Without any shred of evidence or proof that they were involved in their daughter's disappearance (and subsequent cover up) how on earth can people adopt a position of anything other than sympathy for them? I have debated long with people who criticise the leaving of the children in the first place, and I certainly share that to a certain extent (and as a parent I wouldn't dream of going on a family holiday and not 'sacrificing' adult time in the pursuit of being with my family - suffice to say that'd I'd have made very different decisions to them) but because they made different decisions it doesn't mean that they are any less deserving of my sympathy whilst it still appears to be a missing child / child abduction case.

I've read through many, many conspiracy theories on this case and I've also followed the official lines of investigation with interest and I suppose the most striking thing of all is that none of the hypothesised sequence of events makes a great deal of sense. There is no clear motive for her to be abducted. There is no clear motive for the parents to have performed (let alone cover up) the direct / indirect 'murder' of their child. When these awful cases come up which seem to defy logic and make the wider population feel uneasy about 'wow, that could have been any of us' it also comes with a type of witch hunt and finger pointing at those who've lost the most to make us all feel better and safer about ourselves and that is deeply disappointing. For what it is worth - the only sequence of events that could make some sense to me is that a dreary Madeleine awoke to find her parents not there and she somehow got herself out onto the street where she was picked up. It seems to fit more profiles of 'random abductions' than someone waiting until a specific time to enter an apartment that was clearly visible from the street and then abduct not the youngest child(ren) that are more common targets, but the oldest one and then slink off without alert.

Perhaps this latest investigation will shed some light on it all, but I fear that too long has passed now. However, fair play to the family for continuing to fight. In the absence of there being any credible evidence that the McCann's have played everyone for fools - they'll continue to have my support.

One thing I certainly do agree with, however, is that had this been a poorer family in a more 'working class' type of holiday resort the press would have vilified the family far more than the McCann's have been such is the vile nature of the tabloid press.

Last edited by Windsor_Eagle; 14-10-2013 at 09:18 AM.
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  #92  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
The dogs are trained to smell the gases of decomposition of dead bodies, "on the breeze". They follow this scent to the source of the smell, and hopefully then find the material evidence.

There was a case in America cited by the McCanns lawyers, based on evidence provided by "cadaver" dogs that was thrown out as unreliable. In both the American and the McCann's cases, no bodies or any human remains were found, which apparently have to be present for any evidence to be seen as conclusive. In other words, the dogs are an aid to detection, but not a means to convict.
Fair point but these dogs are very helpful and the Dog used in the McCann case was rumoured to be the best and earning £200.000k a year.
This article is worth a read To view the link you have to Register or Login it explains the dogs accuracy and ability to smell death after the victims body has been only been exposed to a carpet tile for 10 mins in 98 % of cases but also explains their limitations .

Last edited by racehorse-80s; 14-10-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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  #93  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
The McCanns have always aroused this reaction on the BBS. It doesn't show us in a good light.

Just the BBS? I think it's a general thing.

Personally, as I've said before, I still think there are some odd things about it all. Why happily use the creche service during the day and then not use the babysitting service in the evening, in a resort set up for families, for example? It's just odd. But oddness doesn't equal guilt, which is something a lot of people seem to overlook.

I can only imagine that the parents have spent a lot of time in private going over how they would have done things differently, and blaming themselves/each other for leaving their children alone. I certainly don't envy them the hell they must have been through, and I'm sure being middle class and educated has helped them in keeping a high media profile for the case. I don't doubt that all such cases should get more attention.

But come on....if it was your child wouldn't you do everything you could to keep the awareness levels up in the hope that your child might still turn up?
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  #94  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
Fair point but these dogs are very helpful and the Dog used in the McCann case was rumoured to be the best and earning £200.000k a year.
This article is worth a read To view the link you have to Register or Login it explains the dogs accuracy and ability to smell death after the victim has been deceased only 10 mins in 98 % of cases but also explains their limitations .
But then you've got to marry that against the fact that the apartment had been let between the McCann's leaving it and the dogs being sent there. You've also got to then prove that any blood or trace of a dead body belongs to that of Madeleine. With both of those factors in mind, the reliability of those dogs showing that the McCann's were involved in their daughters disappearance is heavily undermined.
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  #95  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
The dogs are trained to smell the gases of decomposition of dead bodies, "on the breeze". They follow this scent to the source of the smell, and hopefully then find the material evidence.

There was a case in America cited by the McCanns lawyers, based on evidence provided by "cadaver" dogs that was thrown out as unreliable. In both the American and the McCann's cases, no bodies or any human remains were found, which apparently have to be present for any evidence to be seen as conclusive. In other words, the dogs are an aid to detection, but not a means to convict.
The American case the McCanns used to back up their dissing of the dogs was that of Eugene Zapatta. His wife disappeared in 1976 and her body has never been found. Police had long suspected he was involved somehow but it wasn’t until they brought in cadaver dogs in 2004 that he was eventually charged with murder.

After a long protracted trial, he eventually pleaded guilty and was sentenced to five years in prison.

That doesn’t in itself having any bearing on the innocence or guilt of the McCanns, but I just thought I’d let you know.

Cheers
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  #96  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:23 AM
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I don't think that theory holds too much credence personally. In the heat of the moment it is far too easy to forget certain details or confuse events and scenarios with other timelines in previous days.
Yes maybe but the problem people have is that the story had various issues . I looked up the other part of the window story.

'Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.

He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'

"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage."

However this was latter proved to be a lie the window shutter was not broken the patio door was unlocked. Which Kate would have known, I can understand why they wanted a different story on the parenting skills in doing it though they in my opinion made the whole case worse. I will be honest I dont buy the heat of the moment they forgot got confused with previous days.
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  #97  
Old 14-10-2013, 09:27 AM
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Of course there were inconsistencies.

It would be more suspicious if there were not.
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Old 14-10-2013, 09:28 AM
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But then you've got to marry that against the fact that the apartment had been let between the McCann's leaving it and the dogs being sent there. You've also got to then prove that any blood or trace of a dead body belongs to that of Madeleine. With both of those factors in mind, the reliability of those dogs showing that the McCann's were involved in their daughters disappearance is heavily undermined.
I think it is reasonable to say the dogs findings are reliable and McCanns explaination viable .
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Old 14-10-2013, 09:29 AM
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I think what grates a lot of people in part, myself included, is 'Team McCann'.

In hindsight the McCanns might wish they had done things differently, I think.
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Old 14-10-2013, 09:33 AM
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Of course there were inconsistencies.

It would be more suspicious if there were not.

True. I'm sure any event would have inconsistencies if revisited later and looked at from different viewpoints.
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