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  #61  
Old 24-12-2013, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
Maybe.

But when you made the silly comparison to Miliband's rather modest proposals in your opening post, I think most people saw where you were going, yawned and dug into the Quality Street.
It's not a modest proposal or a silly comparison, a 2 year price freeze is a serious deal. The principal is the same, some unscrupulous capitalists are overcharging people so we must put on price controls.
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  #62  
Old 24-12-2013, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Stinger1 View Post
It's not a modest proposal or a silly comparison,
Let's open the After Eights and have a Baileys
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  #63  
Old 24-12-2013, 09:56 PM
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Let's open the After Eights and have a Baileys
I forgot to buy some Baileys. Have to get some for New Year.
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  #64  
Old 24-12-2013, 09:57 PM
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TBF. Forget comparisons; Venezuala is worthy of its own thread.
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  #65  
Old 24-12-2013, 10:46 PM
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This sentence is factually incorrect. The people are better off.
Thanks for that. I assume you went to Venezuela both pre and post-Chavez?
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  #66  
Old 24-12-2013, 11:22 PM
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radiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietradiomike came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Yes of course it has serious shortages as businesses heavily backed by Caprilles' USA backed opposition are doing their best to sabotage any attempt to stand up to the US tyranny of its neighbours. As for defining the Guardian as a left-wing paper, it is a multi-million pound capitalist enterprise admittedly to the left of the right wing rags that infest the newstands but hardly a radical publication to challenge the establishment.
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  #67  
Old 25-12-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ExeterEagle View Post
Thanks for that. I assume you went to Venezuela both pre and post-Chavez?
No I used the UN's HDI. Sorry, I should've used your anecdotal evidence instead. My bad.
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  #68  
Old 25-12-2013, 06:05 PM
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No offence Mustafa, but your Dave Spart schtick is even more tedious than your previous WilliamHagueToryBoy persona.
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  #69  
Old 25-12-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by radiomike View Post
Yes of course it has serious shortages as businesses heavily backed by Caprilles' USA backed opposition are doing their best to sabotage any attempt to stand up to the US tyranny of its neighbours. As for defining the Guardian as a left-wing paper, it is a multi-million pound capitalist enterprise admittedly to the left of the right wing rags that infest the newstands but hardly a radical publication to challenge the establishment.
When Muduro won the election, there was no fraud. But Kerry refused to recognise the result. The US is not interested in democracy, they just want to maintain their empire - especially in South America which they regard as their 'back yard'.

Therefore is is no surprise there are shortages, the Americans will do everything in their power to make sure that comes about. Luckily, Muduro has used the state's power for the benefit of the people. If only our government would do the same for us...
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Old 25-12-2013, 07:05 PM
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Maduro is the spelling.
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  #71  
Old 25-12-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Far East Eagle View Post
When Muduro won the election, there was no fraud. But Kerry refused to recognise the result. The US is not interested in democracy, they just want to maintain their empire - especially in South America which they regard as their 'back yard'.

Therefore is is no surprise there are shortages, the Americans will do everything in their power to make sure that comes about. Luckily, Muduro has used the state's power for the benefit of the people. If only our government would do the same for us...
You have to be pretty deluded to believe all of that. Kerry waited to acknowledge the result because it was extremely close so there was a possibility of a recount and also allegations of election fraud.

I think you'll find it's Maduro and the Venezuelan government who are not interested in a democracy with their relentless suppression of the media and persecution of journalists that dare report the facts.

If the US was really interested in creating shortages they could just stop exporting to them. How you can fail to see that Venezuela is making the same mistakes communist China and Russia made is beyond me. They've expropriated well run private businesses and run them into the ground because the bureaucrats have no clue how to run a business.

Saying Maduro used the state's power for the Benefit of the people is just empty statement, you didn't even give an example and you can't because there are none.
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  #72  
Old 25-12-2013, 10:13 PM
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Yes, Venezuala has made mistakes. So have we all, even me.

Tell me Stinger1 how many mistakes were made in the US that made it need $3trn of free money, whilst inequality soared?
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  #73  
Old 25-12-2013, 10:14 PM
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No offence Mustafa, but your Dave Spart schtick is even more tedious than your previous WilliamHagueToryBoy persona.
None taken, Aled.
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  #74  
Old 25-12-2013, 10:21 PM
Stinger1 Stinger1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selhurstparkflyer View Post
Yes, Venezuala has made mistakes. So have we all, even me.

Tell me Stinger1 how many mistakes were made in the US that made it need $3trn of free money, whilst inequality soared?
Loads, the whole reason they had to print the $3trn was because of distortions created by government sponsored entities and the central bank.

The point is Venezuela is actively pursuing policies in which many of the left would like to see instituted yet fail to recognize their failure when they happen.
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  #75  
Old 25-12-2013, 10:25 PM
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Loads, the whole reason they had to print the $3trn was because of distortions created by government sponsored entities and the central bank.

The point is Venezuela is actively pursuing policies in which many of the left would like to see instituted yet fail to recognize their failure when they happen.
Nothing to do with the rabid financial deregilation of the '90s and 00s, of course.

You overgeneralise to your own demise, young man. If you want to debate the pros and cons of individual policies and outcomes that's fine but sweeping statements like yours are futile.
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Last edited by selhurstparkflyer; 25-12-2013 at 10:28 PM.
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  #76  
Old 25-12-2013, 10:40 PM
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Yes, Venezuala has made mistakes. So have we all, even me.
I'm sure your folks bailed you out though.
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  #77  
Old 25-12-2013, 10:48 PM
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Nothing to do with the rabid financial deregilation of the '90s and 00s, of course.

You overgeneralise to your own demise, young man.
It had a small part to play but ultimately it was caused by Greenspan cutting rates to 1%. Look at a chart of median income vs house prices, for 20 years they were perfectly correlated until 2001 and then took off, completely breaking the correlation. Coincidence that was when Greenspan was cutting rates? I don't think so.

I'm not sure what you mean by overgeneralise but do I think socialist policies lead to a net welfare loss over time? Yes. That's an accurate generalisation based on historical fact and will be proven true in the future. The fact that Venezuela is a complete basket case and yet is above criticizm and actually defended by you and the rest of the left-wing posters shows you're blinded by ideology.
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  #78  
Old 25-12-2013, 11:02 PM
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Old 26-12-2013, 04:15 AM
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You have to be pretty deluded to believe all of that. Kerry waited to acknowledge the result because it was extremely close so there was a possibility of a recount and also allegations of election fraud.

I think you'll find it's Maduro and the Venezuelan government who are not interested in a democracy with their relentless suppression of the media and persecution of journalists that dare report the facts.

If the US was really interested in creating shortages they could just stop exporting to them. How you can fail to see that Venezuela is making the same mistakes communist China and Russia made is beyond me. They've expropriated well run private businesses and run them into the ground because the bureaucrats have no clue how to run a business.

Saying Maduro used the state's power for the Benefit of the people is just empty statement, you didn't even give an example and you can't because there are none.
Let's not throw around insults, and let's stick to the facts. In the 2013 election, Maduro won by over 200,000 votes. A large margin. When taken against Western democratic results, the 2000 US election came down to a few hundred 'hanging chads' in Florida and the 1992 British election was just 15,000 votes over key constituencies. To not recognise a 200,000 vote margin shows an attempt at mischief on the part of the Americans.

The British government has imposed a Tory as the head of the BBC, and Jeremy Hunt has threatened the BBC with having their funding cut if they show political 'bias'. Our government is forcing the state broadcaster to toe the government line. As is happening in Australia where Murdoch is pressuring the government to cut funding to ABC. Therefore, Venezuela is not alone in censoring the media, if indeed that actually is what its doing.

As I mentioned, the Venezuelan government has on numerous occasions used state power for the betterment of the people. Under Chavez, they re-nationalised oil, putting billions of pounds into healthcare and education. Under Maduro this has continued. I'll give two examples, when a private electronic goods company was seen as using their dominant market share to over charge customers, the government nationalised it, and reduced prices. To view the link you have to Register or Login Another example followed toilet paper shortage. Although this story recieved international attention, the solution to the problem, did not. To view the link you have to Register or Login The government stepped in, and secured supplies. But the company remained in private ownership, hardly a communist dictatorship.

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  #80  
Old 26-12-2013, 04:20 AM
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Let's not throw around insults, and let's stick to the facts. In the 2013 election, Maduro won by over 200,000 votes. A large margin. When taken against Western democratic results, the 2000 US election came down to a few hundred 'hanging chads' in Florida and the 1992 British election was just 15,000 votes over key constituencies. To not recognise a 200,000 vote margin shows an attempt at mischief on the part of the Americans.

The British government has imposed a Tory as the head of the BBC, and Jeremy Hunt has threatened the BBC with having their funding cut if they show political 'bias'. Our government is forcing the state broadcaster to toe the government line. As is happening in Australia where Murdoch is pressuring the government to cut funding to ABC. Therefore, Venezuela is not alone in censoring the media, if indeed that actually is what its doing.

As I mentioned, the Venezuelan government has on numerous occasions used state power for the betterment of the people. Under Chavez, they re-nationalised oil, putting billions of pounds into healthcare and education. Under Maduro this has continued. I'll give two examples, when a private electronic goods company was seen as using their dominant market share to over charge customers, the government nationalised it, and reduced prices. To view the link you have to Register or Login Another example followed toilet paper shortage. Although this story recieved international attention, the solution to the problem, did not. To view the link you have to Register or Login The government stepped in, and secured supplies. But the company remained in private ownership, hardly a communist dictatorship.

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