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  #61  
Old 07-03-2015, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gazza2 View Post
You are right Martin H. Abnett played RB and Clyne LB. Clyne was relatively late developer. Egbo been considered a top prospect from young age.
Didn't Clyne start with Spurs? No-one mentioned loyalty when he switched from them to us. It's a word that's only used when players move in the opposite direction.

I remember Clyne's debut against Barnsley. He was only picked that night because we had so many injured full backs at the time. And he then proceeded to have a wonderful first match, which kept him in the first team squad from then onwards

That's the sort of luck Egbo needs. The problem is that we were prepared to take that sort of gamble in the Championship, but are much less inclined to do so in the Prem. If every right back on our books, except Egbo, was injured he probably still wouldn't get a game. We'd more likely do something like switch an experienced CB into that position rather than risk an untried youngster.
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  #62  
Old 07-03-2015, 11:59 PM
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Didn't Clyne start with Spurs? No-one mentioned loyalty when he switched from them to us. It's a word that's only used when players move in the opposite direction.

I remember Clyne's debut against Barnsley. He was only picked that night because we had so many injured full backs at the time. And he then proceeded to have a wonderful first match, which kept him in the first team squad from then onwards

That's the sort of luck Egbo needs. The problem is that we were prepared to take that sort of gamble in the Championship, but are much less inclined to do so in the Prem. If every right back on our books, except Egbo, was injured he probably still wouldn't get a game. We'd more likely do something like switch an experienced CB into that position rather than risk an untried youngster.
Rotherham seem to like our full backs. If they stay up and we were to loan him to them I'd bet he'd give a better account of himself than Fryers has by all accounts.
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  #63  
Old 08-03-2015, 08:05 AM
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According to Clyne his move from Spurs to Palace was driven by reduced travelling time and I doubt it had much to do with being attracted by our better facilities or being offeredmore cash and so it seems more acceptable somehow. Obviously it was the right way but there have been others I am sure from smaller clubs.

The hoovering up of talent by the big clubs with silly money that is emerging seems a problem but unless they standardise wage structures I think it's a bit like the tide and Canute. Even then the big clubs would find ways around it.

Palace have to compete on facilities though as we are well behind and I am sure the first contract process for the youngsters will end up like Uni selection with visits to the big clubs and we must look pretty poor.

Back to Egbo, does he train regularly with the first team?
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  #64  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:11 AM
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I remember reading an article from Issott about Clyne and he was saying that they used to categorise the players into two groups, group one and group two, one being Moses, Bostock etc, two being the rest. Clyne was never a group one player and his progress surprised everybody. As much as I despise him, Warnock deserves a lot of credit for the development of Clyne. Not all of it mind, by all accounts his attitude is brilliant, turning down Wolves etc.
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  #65  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by David Amsalem View Post
I remember reading an article from Issott about Clyne and he was saying that they used to categorise the players into two groups, group one and group two, one being Moses, Bostock etc, two being the rest. Clyne was never a group one player and his progress surprised everybody. As much as I despise him, Warnock deserves a lot of credit for the development of Clyne. Not all of it mind, by all accounts his attitude is brilliant, turning down Wolves etc.
Iircc i think the academy coaches told NW that Clyne wasn't ready but after watching him train/ play in academy game he decided to give him his chance and boy did he take giving a man of the match performance on his debut and you could instantly tell imo he'd play for England .
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  #66  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:28 AM
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Rotherham seem to like our full backs. If they stay up and we were to loan him to them I'd bet he'd give a better account of himself than Fryers has by all accounts.
Fryers was an unused sub for Rotherham yesterday. Certainly not fulfilling his early potential so far?
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  #67  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:36 AM
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Fryers was an unused sub for Rotherham yesterday. Certainly not fulfilling his early potential so far?
Not if the comments of the Rotherham fans are anything to go by, there's a thread in TT on him.
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  #68  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:49 AM
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Palace have to compete on facilities though as we are well behind and I am sure the first contract process for the youngsters will end up like Uni selection with visits to the big clubs and we must look pretty poor.
In my days of playing football, the only facilities you needed were a ball (tennis ball will do) and some mates. What is it with kids these days?
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  #69  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:54 AM
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In my days of playing football, the only facilities you needed were a ball (tennis ball will do) and some mates. What is it with kids these days?
A ball? Luxury, we used to make do lumps of masonry from bomb sites. Playing Wembley with a chunk of concrete sorts out the men from the boys I can tell you.
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Old 08-03-2015, 10:22 AM
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According to Clyne his move from Spurs to Palace was driven by reduced travelling time and I doubt it had much to do with being attracted by our better facilities or being offeredmore cash and so it seems more acceptable somehow. Obviously it was the right way but there have been others I am sure from smaller clubs.

The hoovering up of talent by the big clubs with silly money that is emerging seems a problem but unless they standardise wage structures I think it's a bit like the tide and Canute. Even then the big clubs would find ways around it.

Palace have to compete on facilities though as we are well behind and I am sure the first contract process for the youngsters will end up like Uni selection with visits to the big clubs and we must look pretty poor.

Back to Egbo, does he train regularly with the first team?
He trains with them from time to time but not regularly, no. He has been included in two matchday squads this season for experience.

Clyne lived in Stockwell I believe. Egbo is from Hackney.
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  #71  
Old 08-03-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
He trains with them from time to time but not regularly, no. He has been included in two matchday squads this season for experience.

Clyne lived in Stockwell I believe. Egbo is from Hackney.
The reason for asking is that one of the genuine reasons for moving could be regularly competing against better players. Training with the first team might compensate for not having the depth of quality of youth players at the club that say Man City etc might have. Personally I think that playing with and against older players rather than just against their own age group give one or two years is a massive learning advantage. Like anything it needs to be managed but I would hope they get a lot of exposure to the top professionals.
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  #72  
Old 08-03-2015, 11:03 AM
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Dunno how it works but can he be fast tracked from next year into the first team setup? That way if he signs a pro contract they can always find ways to get the financials right with the incentives for him to perform and earn them by breaking into the squad. What did Southampton do with their teenage players? They seem to have broken straight through into the first team bypassing the loan route.
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  #73  
Old 08-03-2015, 11:10 AM
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The reason for asking is that one of the genuine reasons for moving could be regularly competing against better players. Training with the first team might compensate for not having the depth of quality of youth players at the club that say Man City etc might have. Personally I think that playing with and against older players rather than just against their own age group give one or two years is a massive learning advantage. Like anything it needs to be managed but I would hope they get a lot of exposure to the top professionals.
I don't think that's as big a factor as it's made out to be. I've no doubt that they would rather be playing Cat 1 than Cat 2 and therefore against 'better' players but I'm not convinced it's a significant reason to move.

I agree on the latter and that's something being done more in the last six-eight months. They want to get players out on loan ASAP, see Inniss, JBW, Kaikai, Gray, Boateng, Chambers, Gregory, so they can develop their talent against older players. This in turn frees up space in the U21 side and then in the U18 side.

E.g. Victor Fundi made his U18 debut yesterday as a 16-year-old. Likewise did Levi Lumeka and Kian Flanagan who I think is 15, possibly 16, was on the bench and I was informed he would have come on if we were chasing the game (but all subs had been made by then). Bissaka is often in U21 squads - side note, one of the hardest working wingers I've ever seen, tracks back and defends brilliantly.

Egbo played 89 minutes on his debut for the 18s as a 15-year-old away at Fulham a couple of years ago, and was very composed.
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  #74  
Old 08-03-2015, 11:34 AM
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Iircc i think the academy coaches told NW that Clyne wasn't ready but after watching him train/ play in academy game he decided to give him his chance and boy did he take giving a man of the match performance on his debut and you could instantly tell imo he'd play for England .
That's precisely my recollection as well.

It's interesting people discussing the distance to train and matches as the recent Richard Shaw interview, who I believe is in charge of either the U16s and U18s said Palace wasn't his local team, but they made an effort to collect him etc.
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  #75  
Old 08-03-2015, 11:46 AM
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It's not just from personal experience (which is a dangerous thing sometimes) but also from observed behaviour, but playing with 'men' rather than with an Under this or that age group is completely different and forces a different performance from a player. Obviously I don't mean an 11 year old and build, personality and development come into the selection but as part of development it's a big step and good to hear that this sounds like it is being carefully managed. It does need active management because it's no place for retribution from an old pro for the cheeky youngster that's nutmegged him 3 times but you would hope that those days have gone. Mind you I reckon if you did that to TP in training once you wouldn't do it twice and if you did your third attempt would have to be on your one good leg
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Old 08-03-2015, 11:55 AM
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I don't think that's as big a factor as it's made out to be. I've no doubt that they would rather be playing Cat 1 than Cat 2 and therefore against 'better' players but I'm not convinced it's a significant reason to move. .....
It may not be the driver as cash and bright lights probably are but it probably is a genuine reason. I.e. A full back up against crap wingers each week in training simply won't develop the skills that allow him to dominate the best players until he plays in matches.

The tricky thing for the kids and their families is that they have to gamble on their lad's future success. Do they take the money now because so many fail without making it or do they stay where the player is comfortable and probably has better chances. Well that used to be the question until Palace were in the Prem at least. Now arguably by staying with us they have poorer facilities, low chances of first team break-through and lower chances of a loan spell it would seem (lower clubs are far more likely to take loan players from the top clubs).

Who would be a Palace Chairman eh? Tough stuff to sort out for those guys whole keeping us all happy too.
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:16 PM
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For a gamble to pay dividends you need to be bold and take a risk, as Southampton have done with the introduction of outstanding prospects brought into the First team squad.
The problem we have is the need to stay up for its financial rewards, which means we cant afford to gamble by introducing any youngsters in the squad let alone being played. We could have said the same about Clyne, but by taking that chance in being played for whatever the reasons, showed it can pay off and it did big time.
Hopefully if we can muster another 7 to 9 points which I think will see us safe, then we should introduce possibly Two of our outstanding youngsters like Egbo into the squad (obviously if good enough) and maybe if necessary give them say 20 minutes game time. That would tell us so much more of the persons ability and character to make the move up, and also the player a huge confidence boost, possibly in this case holding on to young Egbo as he sees the chance to progress with us.
That is why I have said in a previous post players like Innis and Jerome Williams and possibly One or Two others should be included in pre season with the senior squad to give them a much needed confidence boost, and then sent to a decent club on say an initial Six month loan.
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Old 08-03-2015, 12:53 PM
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I think another key factor with Southampton is the quality of their youth which has been stunning over recent years with the conveyor belt of Walcott, Bale, Ox, Lallana, and the rest being very impressive. You could say that's because they played them early but I think that would be a stretch - these lads always were outstanding. They do need a chance too though. I am not sure we have anyone of that quality close to the first team today but maybe in the future. I am pretty sure Parish etc. would understand the value of this though and expect the club to tackle it. We have such a large cachement area that surely we can tap into this rich vein.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:03 PM
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Unless Egbo signs a pro deal he won't play for our first team.

Re pre-season, only the best youngsters are included which is why Gray went on tour to Austria.
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Last edited by Woosie; 08-03-2015 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 08-03-2015, 01:09 PM
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Martin H Martin H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
Unless Egbo signs a pro deal he won't play for our first team.

Re pre-season, only the best youngsters are included which is why Gray went on tour to Austria.
Both comments make a lot of sense.

Definitely seems from comments on here that the feeling is that he won't be travelling - shame but s*** happens
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