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  #61  
Old 12-08-2014, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
..and your point is?
Well let's start with the biggie

Jordan never bought the ground. Though i'll concede he claimed to have done and there were T-shirts printed that said he did. Did you buy one?
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Last edited by Adlerhorst; 12-08-2014 at 05:59 PM.
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  #62  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:06 PM
Crozzy71 Crozzy71 is offline
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
No.

SJ's best ever piece of business was to buy the ground from Noades so when CPFC2010 bought the club out of administration, the assets included the stadium. They've also purchased the training ground so Crystal Palace as a business now has considerable tangible and intangible assets plus cash in the bank, which makes us a much different proposition than when Mark Goldberg blew his fortune back in the day.

I know Noades has his fans but I always thought he was a bit of a crook who took out more than he put in.
I think you've forgotten the fact that once we entered administration the ground and club were owned by different administrators. The reason being SJ hocked himself to Paul Kemsley and when he failed to pay ownership went to Kemsley.

When Kemsley's Rok company went tits up CPFC2010 had to negotiate with both administrators separately to buy both assets.

Brighton have gambled on promotion big style. The reason being they're in the fortunate position of having a wealthy owner who was willing to bankroll it.

In equal measure to being fortunate they are vulnerable to being entirely dependant on one person and we've seen how that can work or fail.

The fact Bloom has structured ground ownership into a Propco / Opco structure is merely a standard protection mechanism should the club fail (or he choose to out them into administration or receivership) so he can let them go and the ground remains protected.

The admin costs do look high but without a breakdown all we can do is speculate (probably incorrectly). Not sure where one poster got a figure of 6m from as being associated with ground costs. The other post of annual rent of 1m pa looks about right and is comfortably covered by catering income of 1.7m. This is why CPFC2010 are so keen to develop Selhurst.

I don't confess to understand the finite details of FFP, but clearly the are now having to cut their cloth to meet the restrictions. Unfortunately for them it's come at exactly the wrong time.

I wasn't able to view the link to the full accounts but I would be intrigued to see the balance sheet. I assume the accounts were signed off on a going concern basis with a statement that the owner will continue to fund the club for the next 12m. That still gives Bloom a get out should he decide enough is enough, but rent of 1m a year should help.

All in all with income pretty much maximised (likely to decline ?) their main hope is for a promotion season this year or I can see them scaling back on all fronts.

I did envy them for a couple of years, but looking at it now, no thanks.
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  #63  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Crozzy71 View Post
I assume the accounts were signed off on a going concern basis with a statement that the owner will continue to fund the club for the next 12m.
Without question.

Here's one to ponder over, so were ours even after we had been promoted.
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  #64  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:16 PM
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Without question.

Here's one to ponder over, so were ours even after we had been promoted.
There are very few (Arsenal, Man Utd) English clubs that are are entirely sufficient on football business alone.
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  #65  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Crozzy71 View Post
There are very few (Arsenal, Man Utd) English clubs that are are entirely sufficient on football business alone.
I know.

But at that precise moment in time we were one of the few clubs who certainly should have been. I get the feeling you know are probably aware what evidence is needed by the auditors to not seek shareholder support on going concern. I find it exceedingly odd that we didn't or couldn't present that.
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  #66  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Well let's start with the biggie

Jordan never bought the ground. Though i'll concede he claimed to have done and there were T-shirts printed that said he did. Did you buy one?
Nope. Nevertheless, the ground was taken off Noades and is now in the ownership of CPFC2010 along with the club.

I think SJ has to be accorded some credit whatever the shenanigans that took place along the way.
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  #67  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
Nope. Nevertheless, the ground was taken off Noades and is now in the ownership of CPFC2010 along with the club.

I think SJ has to be accorded some credit whatever the shenanigans that took place along the way.
I can see one bit, just one in the whole sorry fiasco that Jordan actually deserves credit for and that's allowing the CVA to go through as it did.

The rest, even if it ultimately ended up with CPFC2010 getting a good deal when it acquired the club and the ground, was not remotely Jordan's intention, so I don't see on what grounds he should be given credit for it.
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  #68  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
I can see one bit, just one in the whole sorry fiasco that Jordan actually deserves credit for and that's allowing the CVA to go through as it did.

The rest, even if it ultimately ended up with CPFC2010 getting a good deal when it acquired the club and the ground, was not remotely Jordan's intention, so I don't see on what grounds he should be given credit for it.
Simply because Noades didn't continue owning the ground. Goldberg went broke buying the club without its single biggest asset, which Noades owned. Bringing it back into the club, however convoluted the story, is pivotal to where we are today.
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  #69  
Old 12-08-2014, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
I know.

But at that precise moment in time we were one of the few clubs who certainly should have been. I get the feeling you know are probably aware what evidence is needed by the auditors to not seek shareholder support on going concern. I find it exceedingly odd that we didn't or couldn't present that.
Think I've missed something, we're our accounts qualified ?
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  #70  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:14 PM
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Think I've missed something, we're our accounts qualified ?
Not qualified. Emphasis of matter disclosure, continued support and all that jazz.

I just find it odd, that given the audit opinion was signed in October 13, when we hadn't spent a shit ton of money but did have a shit ton of income coming in and would have clearly been forecast to make a profit (see the DTA recognition for that), that the Auditors felt that they needed to obtain comfort that there would still be support from shareholders.

It's just bizarre.
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  #71  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
Simply because Noades didn't continue owning the ground. Goldberg went broke buying the club without its single biggest asset, which Noades owned. Bringing it back into the club, however convoluted the story, is pivotal to where we are today.
That the club and the ground are reunited was obviously crucial for CPFC2010.

Though why Jordan should receive the slightest credit for this is beyond me. He left the ground in the hands of a propertry developer. Dumb luck is why Palace were in a positon that CPFC2010 could acquire the ground for **** all. No credit should be associated with dumb luck.
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  #72  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:25 PM
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That the club and the ground are reunited was obviously crucial for CPFC2010.

Though why Jordan should receive the slightest credit for this is beyond me. He left the ground in the hands of a propertry developer. Dumb luck is why Palace were in a positon that CPFC2010 could acquire the ground for **** all. No credit should be associated with dumb luck.
Well it should because otherwise the Noades family would have still owned the land and because of that CPFC2010 wouldn't have risked their money on buying Palace just to do a Goldberg.

So Selhurst Park would now be a housing development and AFC Crystal Palace would be in the Skrill premier division.
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  #73  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Not qualified. Emphasis of matter disclosure, continued support and all that jazz.

I just find it odd, that given the audit opinion was signed in October 13, when we hadn't spent a shit ton of money but did have a shit ton of income coming in and would have clearly been forecast to make a profit (see the DTA recognition for that), that the Auditors felt that they needed to obtain comfort that there would still be support from shareholders.

It's just bizarre.
In a way I can understand the auditors caution as we could have blown all the money in quick time. This is football after all !!

The audit firms have been (rightly) slapped for signing off audit reports without undertaking the appropriate due diligence so I do get it why they would add such comments.
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  #74  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
That the club and the ground are reunited was obviously crucial for CPFC2010.

Though why Jordan should receive the slightest credit for this is beyond me. He left the ground in the hands of a propertry developer. Dumb luck is why Palace were in a positon that CPFC2010 could acquire the ground for **** all. No credit should be associated with dumb luck.
Spot on.
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  #75  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:32 PM
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When are our accounts released?
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  #76  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:41 PM
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In a way I can understand the auditors caution as we could have blown all the money in quick time. This is football after all !!

The audit firms have been (rightly) slapped for signing off audit reports without undertaking the appropriate due diligence so I do get it why they would add such comments.
Then why allow the recognition of the DTA.

Though I suppose we should be realistic here. I forget who the auditors are, but it isn't going to be the best team a Big Four firm has to offer. You'd guess it would be a regional office of a smaller firm. You are going to get silliness.

Anyway, this thread is for laughing at Brighton.
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Last edited by Adlerhorst; 12-08-2014 at 07:44 PM.
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  #77  
Old 12-08-2014, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GorBlimey View Post
Well it should because otherwise the Noades family would have still owned the land and because of that CPFC2010 wouldn't have risked their money on buying Palace just to do a Goldberg.

So Selhurst Park would now be a housing development and AFC Crystal Palace would be in the Skrill premier division.
I am not going to try and change you mind any more. You want to give Jordan credit then it is up to you.

you are utterly mistaken though.

ps. When people evaluate based on outcome and ignore the process, they end up repeating bad processes that once (becasue of dumb luck) brought about a good result. If you do that in a business, eventually (and sometimes very quickly) you go bankrupt.
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Last edited by Adlerhorst; 12-08-2014 at 07:49 PM.
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  #78  
Old 12-08-2014, 08:23 PM
GorBlimey GorBlimey is offline
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I am not going to try and change you mind any more. You want to give Jordan credit then it is up to you.

you are utterly mistaken though.

ps. When people evaluate based on outcome and ignore the process, they end up repeating bad processes that once (becasue of dumb luck) brought about a good result. If you do that in a business, eventually (and sometimes very quickly) you go bankrupt.
I can't understand your issue. We are where we are because of Jordan buying the club. He may have gone broke in the process but otherwise the Noades family would have almost certainly flogged Selhurst Park for development at some point.

Goldberg was almightily shafted by Noades and, for someone who had made so much money, was extraordinarily stupid when he bought the club without the ground.

Jordan picked up the pieces and certainly had the goal of reuniting club and ground so he does at least deserve that recognition. Whatever part he played and whoever deserves the most credit is not at issue because, ultimately, the ground has been reunited with the club via CPFC2010.

Whatever way you want to present the history, this is the reality and thank God it turned out this way
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  #79  
Old 12-08-2014, 08:32 PM
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I can't understand your issue.
That much is abundantly clear.

Here's a final hint (and then I am leaving this because 1) it is doing you no favours and 2) this is supposed to be about Brighton). Your main beef appears to be with Noades. Because you are anti-Noades doesn't mean you have to be pro Jordan.
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Last edited by Adlerhorst; 12-08-2014 at 08:34 PM.
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  #80  
Old 12-08-2014, 08:39 PM
Crozzy71 Crozzy71 is offline
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Anyhow, brighton are pretty much fecked unless they go up this year !!
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