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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

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  #1  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:05 AM
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Financial Fair Play rules - transfer budget

Couldn't see another thread on this. Am I right in saying that the Club's ability to spend is now increased because we have now had significantly increased turnover in the last 3 years due to our 5 year stay in the division?

Previously, our turnover would have been dragged down due to turnover in the Championship, but we've now lost that constraint?
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Old 19-05-2017, 10:28 AM
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My question - how the hell are Bournemouth on crowds of 11k paying all this money on wages and transfers?
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Old 19-05-2017, 10:32 AM
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It is my understanding regarding the wage bill that it can only increase 10% year on year.
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Old 19-05-2017, 10:34 AM
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According the that (basic) table about transfer spend vs league position, Bournemouth have not spent too much after all. Relative to points particularly.

Yes the ground is small, but 70% of income in the PL comes from TV money, so corporate, tickets and merchandise are probably not a million miles apart from most of the more normal teams in the league.

On another note, when Howe signs big he tends to not get it too right, but to be fair he doesn't just keep playing the big money signings over someone else.
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Old 19-05-2017, 10:36 AM
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Given that most of the turnover increase is down to TV revenues which are excluded from the calculations, I can't see it having much effect.

As for Bournemouth, crowds of 11k don't generate that much less revenue than 25k, nothing that finishing a few places higher in the league than us won't solve. They can still spend up to the 67m limit on wages and amortised transfer fees without restriction.
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Old 19-05-2017, 11:43 AM
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To be fair to newly promoted clubs, the restrictions on limiting the % of increased tv revenue that you can use to increase your wage bill do not apply until total wage bill reaches a minimum threshold which I think is around 60m.
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Old 19-05-2017, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir.S.C Remembered View Post
According the that (basic) table about transfer spend vs league position, Bournemouth have not spent too much after all. Relative to points particularly.

Yes the ground is small, but 70% of income in the PL comes from TV money, so corporate, tickets and merchandise are probably not a million miles apart from most of the more normal teams in the league.

On another note, when Howe signs big he tends to not get it too right, but to be fair he doesn't just keep playing the big money signings over someone else.
Slight tangent to the thread, but interesting thoughts on Howe - but looking at it, he does have a far few misses in his transfer record, and ends up reverting back to tried and tested players. Didn't they spend 8m on Grabban??
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Old 19-05-2017, 11:56 AM
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Slight tangent to the thread, but interesting thoughts on Howe - but looking at it, he does have a far few misses in his transfer record, and ends up reverting back to tried and tested players. Didn't they spend 8m on Grabban??
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Old 19-05-2017, 12:08 PM
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This comes up every year. Surely someone can answer this conclusively or is it just that we don't what what feeds into the calculation? (Like the actual current wage bill).

Also, I think some people have suggested that ignoring some of these rules would be a viable option. Is there any truth in that.

I'm only asking as I am a financial dullard.
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Old 19-05-2017, 12:10 PM
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My question - how the hell are Bournemouth on crowds of 11k paying all this money on wages and transfers?
Quite simple, they are breaking the rules imo
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Old 19-05-2017, 12:33 PM
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This comes up every year. Surely someone can answer this conclusively or is it just that we don't what what feeds into the calculation? (Like the actual current wage bill).
The only thing that isn't really clear is whether transfer fees, spread over the length of the contract, are included in the 'player cost' calculations.

But that doesn't really matter as either way we have no way of really knowing if Palace are below, at, or above the limit as we can only guess at the wages and signing fees they get, nor the exact fees that were agreed. It would be great if it was like American sports where the terms of every deal and contract are made public.

What we do know is that without increasing our non-TV revenues by more than 7m (seems unlikely), that's the most we can increase our annual player costs in 2017-18, unless we were somehow below the limit this season.

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Old 19-05-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FourtyTwo View Post
Slight tangent to the thread, but interesting thoughts on Howe - but looking at it, he does have a far few misses in his transfer record, and ends up reverting back to tried and tested players. Didn't they spend 8m on Grabban??
Agree - seen the post someone pointed us to as well.

Indeed, the money has not really improved them much at all.

But there is no denying he has still done a good job there. Top half finish, playing good football.

But yes, he does deserve 2 criticisms:-
1. Wastes money when he has it to spend in big sums
2. No plan B/solid defensive approach

So think 1 is offset a bit by the fact he doesn't insist on playing the big money ones if they don't deserve to.

Am all for this sort of analysis against Howe, as long as consistently applied elsewhere to other managers like Rafa etc.

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Old 19-05-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by glaziers fan View Post
It is my understanding regarding the wage bill that it can only increase 10% year on year.
Your understanding is incorrect.
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Old 19-05-2017, 01:51 PM
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This comes up every year. Surely someone can answer this conclusively or is it just that we don't what what feeds into the calculation? (Like the actual current wage bill).
There are two sets of regulations:

1. FFP - relating to how much the club can lose.
2. Short Term Cost Control (STCC) - relating to how much the club can spend on wages.

Given the amount coming into clubs in TV revenue, it is unlikely any club will ever be caught under the regulations relating to 1. above. That allows a high amount of loss per year to be accrued by a club.

STCC is the more relevant factor. That allows wages to be increased, usually, by 7m per year unless the increase is funded by some sort of other revenue (such as increased sponsorship or commercial revenue).
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Old 19-05-2017, 01:52 PM
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It's unlikely FFP will have any effect upon transfer fees, given the manner in which transfer fees are recorded in the books. STCC has a more material effect for the wage increases, and may well be an issue even now.
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Old 19-05-2017, 01:54 PM
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Couldn't see another thread on this. Am I right in saying that the Club's ability to spend is now increased because we have now had significantly increased turnover in the last 3 years due to our 5 year stay in the division?

Previously, our turnover would have been dragged down due to turnover in the Championship, but we've now lost that constraint?
you can only increase wage bill by 7m from non TV money
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Old 19-05-2017, 02:04 PM
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There are two sets of regulations:

1. FFP - relating to how much the club can lose.
2. Short Term Cost Control (STCC) - relating to how much the club can spend on wages.

Given the amount coming into clubs in TV revenue, it is unlikely any club will ever be caught under the regulations relating to 1. above. That allows a high amount of loss per year to be accrued by a club.

STCC is the more relevant factor. That allows wages to be increased, usually, by 7m per year unless the increase is funded by some sort of other revenue (such as increased sponsorship or commercial revenue).
Regarding point 1 - you are aware that Brighton have been promoted to the Premier League? A more scandalous example of frivolous spending beyond their means I've yet to see
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Old 19-05-2017, 02:15 PM
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Old 19-05-2017, 02:26 PM
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But yes, he does deserve 2 criticisms:-
1. Wastes money when he has it to spend in big sums
2. No plan B/solid defensive approach
3. His team employs the 'rotational fouling' technique, to avoid picking up bookings.
4. Harry Arter should have been sent off more than he has.
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Old 19-05-2017, 03:00 PM
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Quite simple, they are breaking the rules imo
They're just paying the fine for breaching the FFP rules each season. Extra money for the FA isn't it?: To view the link you have to Register or Login
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