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  #41  
Old 02-07-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
I feel a bit for Zeki Fryers. Obviously we don't know what is or has been going on in his life but clearly he has some talent otherwise he wouldn't have been signed up by Manchester United or Tottenham.

I think last season we saw glimpses of what he can offer as an attacking full back. The trouble for me is that his positioning and ability to track back totally compromises him as he was far too often stuck 50 yards away from where he should be.

It's almost like he needs to play a position like Centre Back where he has to stay in one position otherwise he is always going to end up out of position.
I wouldn't feel sorry for a player who earned £25-30k per week for three years for doing fu*k all. He got lucky.
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Palace View Post
I wouldn't feel sorry for a player who earned £25-30k per week for three years for doing fu*k all. He got lucky.
I suspect maybe he has other issues outside of football that is why I feel sorry for him.
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
I suspect maybe he has other issues outside of football that is why I feel sorry for him.
Why do you assume that? He might just be lazy and not disciplined enough?

Anyway, everyone has issues and has to deal with crap. At least Fryers has earned several million pounds by his mid-20s and probably doesn't have to worry financially at least. Plenty more people I would feel sorry for than him.
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  #44  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Palace View Post
I wouldn't feel sorry for a player who earned £25-30k per week for three years for doing fu*k all. He got lucky.
Indeed. Imagine getting years of that for going to the gym every morning, playing football with your pals and knocking off at 1pm. I remember hearing him mentioned in an article about Bentley driving footballers who have hardly any appearances. The guy got lucky in life, and it's hard to begrudge it, but he clearly doesn't really care that much about 1st team football, just happy to pick up his wages.
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  #45  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
I suspect maybe he has other issues outside of football that is why I feel sorry for him.
For someone to earn a years wages in a week, I suspect there's a lot of people with more issues than him.. unless mo money mo problems is the issue...

Don't feel sorry for him, he's been given plenty of chances, he's just lazy and lacks hunger.

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  #46  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
I feel a bit for Zeki Fryers. Obviously we don't know what is or has been going on in his life but clearly he has some talent otherwise he wouldn't have been signed up by Manchester United or Tottenham.

I think last season we saw glimpses of what he can offer as an attacking full back. The trouble for me is that his positioning and ability to track back totally compromises him as he was far too often stuck 50 yards away from where he should be.

It's almost like he needs to play a position like Centre Back where he has to stay in one position otherwise he is always going to end up out of position.
Without starting conspiracy theories it has always seemed that there is something unspoken about his time with us - and credit to all concerned if that's been the case. There has been talk of low confidence and I guess when you debut and look good for ManU and then it all goes wrong it is a lot to take that in turn can lead you off course. As a youngster I saw a minor version of this with a school friend and he walked away from the game altogether.

As you say as a player he seems to have all of the fundamentals. maybe not blessed with electric pace but OK if his positioning and reading of the game were top notch but TBH they are all but non-existent at times. That element is confusing because he will have been coached well and has already played alongside some top players, Ferdinand, Vertonghen and Damo

I hope he does well but his time with us has obviously been a real disappointment for him and the club as both hoped for more I am sure. It seems a lifetime ago that he was leaving the training ground driving his Agent's Bentley and it looked like we had solved the LB problem. Having watched him at Palace I wonder if he would thrive as the left sided player in a back 3. Barnsley have a pretty good record for turning out top CB potential lately (Stones and Mawson?) and maybe we should have swapped Fryers for their defensive coach/scouts.
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  #47  
Old 02-07-2017, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
The Sako thing gets raised all of the time. As I understand it (sketchy at best)- out of contract players always negotiate a higher wage because the club doesn't have a transfer fee to pay. This has been the case for as long as I can remember.

I don't know what a transfer fee would have been for Sako but as he had just scored 15 goals in the Championship from the wing and it wouldn't have been cheap. So at say £5m he would have been cheap back then. But let's say he doesn't get all of that but instead gets £3m over a 3 year contract. That's worth about £20k per week. If it's £4m then that's £25k. The remaining £35k or £30k would be his 'normal wages as a goal scoring winger. (hindsight is wonderful but not available when negotiating contracts.

I don't know exactly how this works but to the club it still looks like a good deal on paper and probably better for cash flow otherwise they would pay it as a signing on fee. The point is you can't look at his wages and compare them directly to others without taking this into account. This is despite whatever you/we think about his ability/performance.

I had thought we paid for Fryers and so this wouldn't apply. But he was ex ManU, Ex Spurs, European competition experience and so on and wouldn't have helped. But I thought he was on £20k. So together they are on £75k. I don't think it helps your blood pressure but I did try (I am going by that Wisden of football the daily Star) To view the link you have to Register or Login
Whatever way you try to dress it up there can be no excuses for their lack of effort/performances that they have given to Palace (least said the better for the rewards they received, and that was the point i was making.
As for what that is, none of us would know the truth i was simply basing my comments on what i had read their salaries were Sako 65k p.w and Fryers 30k p.w, and people talk about fat cats bankers!
These players as you quite rightly pointed out came with high reputations and expectations were high, but what did we get in return?
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  #48  
Old 02-07-2017, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
Not disagreeing about Fryers and Sakho in particular, but to even it up a bit it is only the modern, successful footballer, who has reached near the the top, who are in a position to demand the big money, whereas there are thousands of very good players lower in the pyramid, but perhaps still "semi pro" level, who are forced to play at their cost, just to get a chance at the big time

So even if the likes of Fryers and Sakho are lucky to earn the money they do, there are thousands of players whom one could say earn much less than their talent perhaps deserves
You are quite right when you quote the "lower league players" and the parity of the two, and this is where these guys should realise how fortunate they are and the least they could give back in return is Commitment for the rich rewards they receive.
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  #49  
Old 02-07-2017, 04:12 PM
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  #50  
Old 02-07-2017, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nigelbrag View Post
Whatever way you try to dress it up there can be no excuses for their lack of effort/performances that they have given to Palace (least said the better for the rewards they received, and that was the point i was making.
As for what that is, none of us would know the truth i was simply basing my comments on what i had read their salaries were Sako 65k p.w and Fryers 30k p.w, and people talk about fat cats bankers!
These players as you quite rightly pointed out came with high reputations and expectations were high, but what did we get in return?
I really wasn't trying to dress it up - and the post was not a comment or defence of their performances more trying to rectify what seems to be a misunderstanding re their actual cost which regularly gets inflated. TBH I don't think any of the squad are actually 'worth' the money they are paid in the truest sense because it is now beyond obscene but that's a whole other thread. Relatively, then maybe some are but not for real.

Neither have worked out. Sako started with a bang, helping us to some key early victories with neat goals but has never fulfilled that promise and hasn't stayed fit. Fryers is as above. Shame.
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  #51  
Old 02-07-2017, 07:32 PM
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The issue isn't lack of effort from the player but lack of ability. So why was he signed? It's time to have a proper scouting network, director of football etc.
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  #52  
Old 02-07-2017, 07:52 PM
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I'm talking about the quality of signings we have made since we got promoted

We have had eight transfer windows and have six or seven players of genuine Premier League quality and another six or seven who are good enough to be Premier League squad members

When this season's twenty five man squad is named it will contain five players who played in the play-off final in May 2013, Speroni, Ward, Delaney, Williams and Zaha

Since we got promoted we have signed a whole squad of twenty five who have not improved our starting eleven

Neal Alexander, Jack Hunt, Barry Bannan, Elliott Grandin, Florian Marange, Adlene Guédiora, Jimmy Kébé, Jerome Thomas, José Campaña, Tom Ince, Zeki Fryers, Fraizer Campbell, Kevin Doyle, Andrew Johnson, Chung-Yong Lee, Jordon Mutch, Foluwashola Ameobi, Yaya Sanogo, Emmanuel Adebayor, Patrick Bamford, Alex McCarthy, Bakary Sako, Steve Mandanda, Mathieu Flamini, Loïc Rémy

Maybe people think these players have been value for money and have improved the squad?
IMO Campbell and Lee are reasonable squad players and I thought Barry Bannan was very decent, but was gradually frozen out by Pulis.Sako did get 2 winning goals in his few games but has gone downhill ever since (!) and didn't Hunt break his leg, just after he joined us ? And you're a brave man to single out Steeeeve ! on here. But I get your general drift.
The one that really gets my goat is the last name you mentioned - I almost feel Remy was inventing injuries towards the end of his time here, to have to actually avoid justifying the large slice of his wages we were paying
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  #53  
Old 02-07-2017, 08:25 PM
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Going in to our fifth season in the Premier League we still haven't learned
Learned what? Not to overpay? Not how to stay in the Premier League? Not how to go bankrupt?

We got Zaha and Sakho at the end of the window, how did they work out compared to the early signing of Mandana?

Getting the right player in at the right price is the key to success.
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  #54  
Old 03-07-2017, 01:36 AM
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The issue isn't lack of effort from the player but lack of ability. So why was he signed? It's time to have a proper scouting network, director of football etc.

I'm sure Chelsea say the same about the likes of Rahman and many others. Even with a good scoring network, for various reasons due to how many factors involved only around 50% if transfers will ever really work out.

It's one of the reasons I would rather have a strong youth opportunity backing up the more proven quality signings in the starting 11. Often someone like a Mutch had a few good years due to the level of club they were at, players around them, morale at that team, being a main man playing week in week out... even if we rotated the squad more those factors won't be in place for many to perform in. It part roles. So those players would be no more effective than a youngster playing out of their determined skin. Remember how Soares held his own in the Prem above other signings based on that opportunity and desire factor, yet clearly wasn't hugely talented. Plus those few games are much more likely to be beneficial to allow some youngsters to develop and potentially sell on for good fees. Easier to shift it we want to as well as wages will be lower and that's been a major factor in shifting the likes of Campbell etc.
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  #55  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:04 AM
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People wonder why young players' parents always go for the money at a young age, and plump for the biggest possible club's academy to be trained up in. It's because of this, a rubbish player will always get a move if he's been in one of the top 6's academy, especially United's.
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  #56  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Nigelbrag View Post
You are quite right when you quote the "lower league players" and the parity of the two, and this is where these guys should realise how fortunate they are and the least they could give back in return is Commitment for the rich rewards they receive.
I certainly agree on that. The difference in wages for what is only a slight difference in overall quality/luck is enormous, and the lucky ones should be damn grateful
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  #57  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:48 AM
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Terrible player.
Bit harsh - at Bolton away in cup thought he put in at least one really good cross ?
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  #58  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jmemour View Post
People wonder why young players' parents always go for the money at a young age, and plump for the biggest possible club's academy to be trained up in. It's because of this, a rubbish player will always get a move if he's been in one of the top 6's academy, especially United's.
I am sure this is true and I will go further in that my experience is that lower league managers are usually incapable of assessing any difference in players' quality and will prefer whichever player has come from whatever higher level team.
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Maiden Eagle View Post
I almost feel Remy was inventing injuries towards the end of his time here, to have to actually avoid justifying the large slice of his wages we were paying
Seems hard to believe but on the other hand he was always injured. How come Mandanda gets so much more stick than Remy does though?
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  #60  
Old 03-07-2017, 10:56 AM
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Surprised he got a deal with a decent Championship side. Would've expected League One for him
Barnsley's due diligence: Man Utd, Spurs and Palace, can't be too bad
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