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  #41  
Old 10-07-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
Actually Thom puts it rather better than me:

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This is not Queen at Sun City.
He doesn't really address the issues raised though does he? Just describes the controversy as "f***ing weird".

How is this different from the Sun City scenario then? Genuine question.
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  #42  
Old 10-07-2017, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by EdMan View Post
He doesn't really address the issues raised though does he? Just describes the controversy as "f***ing weird".

How is this different from the Sun City scenario then? Genuine question.
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Read the full interview there...
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  #43  
Old 10-07-2017, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Are they allowed to become Israeli citizens?
Who are we talking about? Arabs living in Israel? Yeah sure, they're citizens. Arabs living outside of what most of the world defines as Israel? Well no, again for obvious reasons. I seriously doubt they want to be citizens anyways so it's a bit of a pointless debate.
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  #44  
Old 10-07-2017, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by EdMan View Post
He doesn't really address the issues raised though does he? Just describes the controversy as "f***ing weird".

How is this different from the Sun City scenario then? Genuine question.
If you can't see the difference I don't think anyone can explain it to you.
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  #45  
Old 10-07-2017, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by EdMan View Post
He doesn't really address the issues raised though does he? Just describes the controversy as "f***ing weird".

How is this different from the Sun City scenario then? Genuine question.
I just believe Israel and South Africa to be fundamentally different.

A bit lazy to just quote, but this sums up my view:

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  #46  
Old 10-07-2017, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Friskey View Post
If you can't see the difference I don't think anyone can explain it to you.
Obviously it's not identical, but there are similarities, in my view. Instead of being patronising, why not try and progress the debate?
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  #47  
Old 10-07-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Friskey View Post
Who are we talking about? Arabs living in Israel? Yeah sure, they're citizens. Arabs living outside of what most of the world defines as Israel? Well no, again for obvious reasons. I seriously doubt they want to be citizens anyways so it's a bit of a pointless debate.
'What most of the world degines as Israel'. Is that the same as what Israel defines as Israel? If not, which definition is most relevant for the non citizens?
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  #48  
Old 10-07-2017, 06:34 PM
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Radiohead to play Israel.

If Itzak Zohar turns out for Israel, I reckon Radiohead could nick a draw.
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  #49  
Old 10-07-2017, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
I just believe Israel and South Africa to be fundamentally different.

A bit lazy to just quote, but this sums up my view:

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Well maybe the use of the word "apartheid" in relation to Israel/Palestine is a distraction, as the author says. But as I only used that word in relation to the notion of a cultural boycott, let's not get bogged down with that.

As the author of that opinion piece says:

Israel is in military occupation of the West Bank. Day after day the actions needed to maintain it debase Palestinian victims as well as their Israeli occupiers. It means checkpoints, late-night raids and detentions and killings, and administrative cruelties in regulating people’s lives. Palestinians resist and fight back, attacking both soldiers and settlers; sometimes that has seen them undermine their own morality through suicide bombings against civilians.

This is occupation. It is a tyranny. It is wrong and must end. The point does not need to be embellished. Dragging in the emotive word “apartheid” is not only incorrect but creates confusion and distracts from the main issue.


The point of a cultural boycott would obviously be to put pressure on the Israeli regime to end the occupation. It seems that Radiohead, and some people on here, don't see any value in that. For whatever reason.
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  #50  
Old 10-07-2017, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
'What most of the world degines as Israel'. Is that the same as what Israel defines as Israel? If not, which definition is most relevant for the non citizens?
The non citizens live in what they, and I, define as Palestine. They vote in Palestinian elections. Seriously the vote thing is a complete non issue, there's plenty of real problems to pick on.
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  #51  
Old 10-07-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by EdMan View Post
Obviously it's not identical, but there are similarities, in my view. Instead of being patronising, why not try and progress the debate?
Well I see them as so different that there's not even a debate to be had of their similarities. If you tell me some of the similarities it may be a place to start.
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  #52  
Old 10-07-2017, 06:58 PM
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Well I see them as so different that there's not even a debate to be had of their similarities. If you tell me some of the similarities it may be a place to start.
No. Let's talk about the Israeli occupation and oppression of Palestinians. And whether or not artists should boycott Israel in an effort to bring some change to that. This is what the thread's about. Any thoughts?
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2017, 07:00 PM
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As with everything related to Israel there is huge hypocrisy and ignorance at play. Boycotts are lazy kneejerk reactions to an incredibly complex and almost impossible to resolve issue. What its critics can never answer is what will happen if Israel caves in to all the demands of the Palestinians and agrees a two state solution with a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem. There is some kind of naive assumption that radical Islam will go away and let the Jews live in peace. In fact, most of the country's enemies will continue the war against the Jews until the whole country is destroyed. That one tiny spec of liberal democracy in a huge ocean of despotic Islam will disappear and then what?

So in short, I don't think Radiohead should get any grief for playing to the people of Israel - or any of the Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Aesthetes who make up the country.
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  #54  
Old 10-07-2017, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by EdMan View Post
No. Let's talk about the Israeli occupation and oppression of Palestinians. And whether or not artists should boycott Israel in an effort to bring some change to that. This is what the thread's about. Any thoughts?
This explains my position almost exactly.
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You're talking about two different things. It's a lazy comparison.

Also, FYI, Israel literally wouldn't give two shits if artists boycotted them. There needs to be change, from both sides, but any cultural boycotts will have zero impact.

Edit - all sorts of typos.

Last edited by Friskey; 10-07-2017 at 07:09 PM.
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  #55  
Old 10-07-2017, 07:22 PM
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By the way, why isn't there a boycott of the Palestinians? They haven't held elections in Gaza or the West Bank for over 10 years and the last time they did over 700 people were killed in election violence. To say nothing of, according to Amnesty International, the frequent murder of people by Hamas for their political or religious views or their sexuality. Why isn't there a boycott of Jordan, Kuwait, Tunisia and the many other states that threw the Palestinians out of their countries? What about Egypt for enforcing a blockade of Gaza? I don't suppose it could be anything to do with anti-something or other could it?
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  #56  
Old 10-07-2017, 09:58 PM
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And whether or not artists should boycott Israel in an effort to bring some change to that. This is what the thread's about. Any thoughts?
Anyone Can Play Qatar?
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  #57  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by stamford triumph View Post
What its critics can never answer is what will happen if Israel caves in to all the demands of the Palestinians and agrees a two state solution with a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem. There is some kind of naive assumption that radical Islam will go away and let the Jews live in peace.
So Israel should keep oppressing the Palestinians, because either way, they're under threat?
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  #58  
Old 11-07-2017, 05:45 AM
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By the way, why isn't there a boycott of the Palestinians? They haven't held elections in Gaza or the West Bank for over 10 years and the last time they did over 700 people were killed in election violence. To say nothing of, according to Amnesty International, the frequent murder of people by Hamas for their political or religious views or their sexuality. Why isn't there a boycott of Jordan, Kuwait, Tunisia and the many other states that threw the Palestinians out of their countries? What about Egypt for enforcing a blockade of Gaza? I don't suppose it could be anything to do with anti-something or other could it?
All good points.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:05 AM
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All good points.
You think their should be more sanctions and restrictions on the Palestinians? I'm no expert but it seems from the outside that they have a pretty rough deal.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:10 AM
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I think I read that Jonny Greenwood also has Israeli family connections and was finding the whole thing pretty upsetting
He is a bit naive if he does.
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