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  #61  
Old 11-07-2017, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
You think their should be more sanctions and restrictions on the Palestinians? I'm no expert but it seems from the outside that they have a pretty rough deal.
The trouble is very few people are experts but it doesn't stop them blaming Israel for everything that goes on in the Middle East or thinking that it is right to have a complete trade and cultural boycott of Israel alone amongst all the countries of the world. Or that its right to verbally and physically attack anyone who has some affinity with the country.
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  #62  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:21 AM
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Well no-one on here is blaming Israel for everything that goes on in the Middle East, and no-one on here is verbally or physically attacking anyone who has some affinity with the country.

So let's not get distracted.

This thread is all about whether Israel is justified in its treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories and, if it isn't, is there some chance that a cultural boycott could effect some positive change.
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  #63  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by stamford triumph View Post
By the way, why isn't there a boycott of the Palestinians? They haven't held elections in Gaza or the West Bank for over 10 years and the last time they did over 700 people were killed in election violence. To say nothing of, according to Amnesty International, the frequent murder of people by Hamas for their political or religious views or their sexuality. Why isn't there a boycott of Jordan, Kuwait, Tunisia and the many other states that threw the Palestinians out of their countries? What about Egypt for enforcing a blockade of Gaza? I don't suppose it could be anything to do with anti-something or other could it?
Classic whataboutery.

keeping it to raidiohead what if they said yes we will play in Israel and also put on a gig in the Palestinian territories? My guess is that would have moderated any calls for boycots in its tracks.
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Last edited by weltklasse; 11-07-2017 at 08:54 AM.
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  #64  
Old 11-07-2017, 09:06 AM
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Well no-one on here is blaming Israel for everything that goes on in the Middle East, and no-one on here is verbally or physically attacking anyone who has some affinity with the country..
Post 8 on here after someone (me) was daft enough to put his head above the parapet.
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  #65  
Old 11-07-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
Post 8 on here after someone (me) was daft enough to put his head above the parapet.
Well there's always someone on an internet forum who might go to far. But Post 8 wasn't personally directed at you as far as I can see.

Lets not get distracted eh?

Last edited by EdMan; 11-07-2017 at 09:12 AM.
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  #66  
Old 11-07-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
Classic whataboutery.

keeping it to raidiohead what if they said yes we will play in Israel and also put on a gig in the Palestinian territories? My guess is that would have moderated any calls for boycots in its tracks.
I don't think it is whataboutry at all to consider what is so so unique about Israel that is attracts such calls for cultural boycotts (and many actual ones)?

I do laugh at claims that it is some sort of democratic oasis in a sea of dictators (well, I suppose it is for many of it's occupants). But what is it about Israel, that it's treatment of part of its population is so much worse than others? Other countries oppress minorities, disenfranchise women, outlaw and murder gays, have explicit or de facto discriminatory ethnic laws or are just plain dreadful dictatorship.
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  #67  
Old 11-07-2017, 12:53 PM
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I don't think it is whataboutry at all to consider what is so so unique about Israel that is attracts such calls for cultural boycotts (and many actual ones)?

I do laugh at claims that it is some sort of democratic oasis in a sea of dictators (well, I suppose it is for many of it's occupants). But what is it about Israel, that it's treatment of part of its population is so much worse than others? Other countries oppress minorities, disenfranchise women, outlaw and murder gays, have explicit or de facto discriminatory ethnic laws or are just plain dreadful dictatorship.
Nobody ever has an answer for that question. I think the answer is probably obvious but best avoided.
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  #68  
Old 11-07-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
You think their should be more sanctions and restrictions on the Palestinians? I'm no expert but it seems from the outside that they have a pretty rough deal.
For their 'government'? I'd go much further than restrictions or sanctions.

Both nations have awful governments and there's no hope of peace with both of them in charge.
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  #69  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:00 PM
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  #70  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:12 PM
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  #71  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:12 PM
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For their 'government'? I'd go much further than restrictions or sanctions.

Both nations have awful governments and there's no hope of peace with both of them in charge.
Would you go 'much farther than restrictions or sanctions for the Israeli government too?'
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Old 11-07-2017, 01:13 PM
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As with everything related to Israel there is huge hypocrisy and ignorance at play.
From both sides?
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  #73  
Old 11-07-2017, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
Classic whataboutery.

keeping it to raidiohead what if they said yes we will play in Israel and also put on a gig in the Palestinian territories? My guess is that would have moderated any calls for boycots in its tracks.
Looking at her twitter, i can't imagine the guitarists wife letting him play for the Palestinians.
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  #74  
Old 11-07-2017, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
Classic whataboutery.

keeping it to raidiohead what if they said yes we will play in Israel and also put on a gig in the Palestinian territories? My guess is that would have moderated any calls for boycots in its tracks.
I suggest his life would be in grave danger if he went to Gaza or the West Bank. They are not known for their tolerance of anyone who shows the slightest bit of friendship to Israel let alone people with liberal views. Best leave those kind of contacts to their friends on the left who don't seem to have any such concerns. In any case, when did it become a requirement for musicians who play in controversial countries to have to also play in the countries of their bitterest enemies?
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  #75  
Old 11-07-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Eaglesmad123 View Post
Should Radiohead play Tel Aviv. The band are getting a lot of flack for playing. Is it justified?
People need to worry about some more significant things in life.

2017 seems to be the year to protest everything, the year to bring about socialist change or get your voice heard on a subject that really doesn't matter.

Let's be honest we've got war veterans starving in the streets, nurses using food banks and children leaving school pretty much illiterate and people mobilise to stress this as wrong.

I know the world is a game of opinions but because a bands' differs to yours and plays a gig in Israel doesn't give people a right to attack them the way they have.

Mind you, that is the liberal left these days, becoming more like fascists by the day.
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  #76  
Old 11-07-2017, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Silks&Tekkers View Post
People need to worry about some more significant things in life.

2017 seems to be the year to protest everything, the year to bring about socialist change or get your voice heard on a subject that really doesn't matter.

Let's be honest we've got war veterans starving in the streets, nurses using food banks and children leaving school pretty much illiterate and people mobilise to stress this as wrong.

I know the world is a game of opinions but because a bands' differs to yours and plays a gig in Israel doesn't give people a right to attack them the way they have.

Mind you, that is the liberal left these days, becoming more like fascists by the day.
I disagree with just about everything in this post. What's 2017 got to do with anything? What makes the plight of the Palestinians insignificant? And who's attacking Radiohead? Why should they be above criticism?

And do you place anyone who criticises anyone into your imaginary "liberal left" bracket?

Honestly, what a load of utter crap.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:33 PM
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:37 PM
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I disagree with just about everything in this post. What's 2017 got to do with anything? What makes the plight of the Palestinians insignificant? And who's attacking Radiohead? Why should they be above criticism?

And do you place anyone who criticises anyone into your imaginary "liberal left" bracket?

Honestly, what a load of utter crap.
Well firstly EdMan, we are currently in 2017 so I am referring to the crazy state of the world at present, the present is 2017 in case you hadn't noticed.

I do not put everyone who criticises under the bracket of liberal left, I just find people digging out a band for going to Israel unjust which was the OP's question. I'd imagine that it is the liberal left commenting on this, we haven't seen much Centre/Right criticism of Israel so hence my comment on the Liberal Left.

This isn't about Palestine, this is about a rock concert in Israel but if you want to make it more then feel free. You obviously are quite passionate about the subject given your posts throughout the thread, but I think you've missed the actual point.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:59 PM
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Well firstly EdMan, we are currently in 2017 so I am referring to the crazy state of the world at present, the present is 2017 in case you hadn't noticed.

I do not put everyone who criticises under the bracket of liberal left, I just find people digging out a band for going to Israel unjust which was the OP's question. I'd imagine that it is the liberal left commenting on this, we haven't seen much Centre/Right criticism of Israel so hence my comment on the Liberal Left.

This isn't about Palestine, this is about a rock concert in Israel but if you want to make it more then feel free. You obviously are quite passionate about the subject given your posts throughout the thread, but I think you've missed the actual point.
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:19 PM
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Would you go 'much farther than restrictions or sanctions for the Israeli government too?'
Did you read my post? Again the answer should be obvious. The Israeli Prime Minister is not a very nice man, you may have missed this, so yeah no concerns with what happens to him. The people shouldn't be the ones that suffer though. Israeli or Palestinian. Let me give you a more detailed answer in an effort to get more out of you than a one lined question to anything that I say.

Your average Israeli is fairly relaxed, most/all Israelis that vote for a right wing government will have done so almost solely for security reasons. It's not a traditional right wing country despite the government. I'm sure most people would want a strong defence when you have a terrorist group just over the wall who doesn't think that you have a right to exisit. If Palestine was more powerful than Israel, Israel wouldn't exisit anymore. There's no realistic way that that they're going to lower security and I don't think that they should whilst Hamas is so (relatively) strong. Look how worked up people get in this country over a couple of terrorist attacks in a month, imagine similar happening daily for months/years and you'll start to understand the mindset on security. I'd like the security without ordinary people in Palestine losing their dignity of course and I imagine you would find a huge amount of support for this view from ordinary people in Israel.

However that's not going to happen with this government, the regulations past in February on settlements, backed by Trump, could lead to prosecution at the ICC and continued movements like this are pretty much killing any chance of a two state solution (which I think is Israel's aim now). The UK and the US having right wing governments isn't helping as since Trump in particular got in Netanyahu has gone crazy on the settlement law. I have no time for the settlement programme or 90% of settlers. It's fairly devastating to see it happen considering the history of Jews being forced into ghettos. Again your average Israeli doesn't have much in common with a settler.

The Palestine 'governement(s)' are just as bad though. Hamas should be self explanatory, it's never good to have a terrorist group with any sort of power. Israel rightly refuses to negotiate with them at all and any decrease in security will lead to their attacks increasing in numbers and ferocity (they confirm this themself so you don't need to take my word for it). It's unrealistic and unfair to expect anyone in Israel to negotiate with these people. I think the international community should get involved to free Palestine from Hamas so that a two state solution can be negotiated, ideally with a non far right wing Israeli government, but that's probably highly unrealistic.

Israel (even the far right) will negotiate with the Palestinian Authority but they also often treat their own people with disdain, recent examples include shutting off electricity to the West Bank, in a power struggle with Hamas. The Palestinian Authority is still a million times better than Hamas though and any chance of two state solution will probably require their involvement.

It's a very complex situation and any talk of Radiohead not playing a few tunes having any sort of impact is frankly laughable.
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