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  #41  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
He's best as a winger but he's played as a No 10 this season. He is extremely quick, good close control and a powerful shot. Likes to shoot from distance, crosses the ball well.
Wish more of the first team would take a shot from distance now and then instead of fannying around
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  #42  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by adman50 View Post
Woosie- what is your opinion of teams like Brentford ditching the whole academy set up in favour of a B team. I recently read that Huddersfield were going to save over 2m a year doing so.
A wifes colleague of mine is the physio/kit woman of their B team and big Brentford fans. Apparently the academy wasn't productive. Big costs, nothing coming through and having to compete with other clubs taking players. They therefore ditched the academy and started a B team. The B team is a squad of u23 players, many from Europe. The hope is they then progress to the full squad. Basically their fixtures are invite games against the like of Man City u23s for example.

A shame for local youth talent you'd think but they now have a similar set up to Wycombe like a community trust project. We played Brentford in a tournament in the summer actually. There are quite a few clubs like this now. Wycombe were one of the only clubs without an academy until recently but they have this community trust scheme. Other clubs they've played are Reading, Swindon, MK, Northampton, Luton, Coventry, Dartford academy, Gillingham, Oxford and even Fulham. I've known some age groups to be invited to play the odd full academy. For instance the U13s &14 elite boys are playing Reading academy on Saturday at the Madjeski complex. The highlight last season was the U13s elite playing Boulougne who were won tour. This was Kante team as a youth player and they beat PSG academy 2 weeks prior.

These set up have a loose link to the main team. For example Wycombe can't sign these kids on until they're 16. Training appears very good with the development players having a 2hr training session each week and elite players having 2 x 1.45hr sessions a week. Facilities are also excellent and the advantage is the players can also play for their local Sat/Sun side still. Most of the fixtures happen in school hols and only the odd invitation not in school hols to have minimal impact on local sides.

Interestingly Wycombe results and performances from all age groups have been very good and are now looking to start their academy back up. They are also now planning to enter the u15s mixed with u16s into the allied counties league to give them more exposure. It'll be tough but a good experience for players.

The whole academy set up is very confusing though. I don't think it has had the desired impact it was set out to have and has really only benfited the big clubs, who no longer have to pay larger sums to smaller clubs which helped support the pyrimid. Chelsea are an example of utilising the system to its full potential. They're not interested in actually bringing anyone into the first team unless they're a Messi, Ronaldo or Bale. The shame is their academy is excellent. Its a businees for them as they stock pile player's. Give them a footballing education and rent or sell them on making huge profits very year.I imagine now most clubs just struggle to compete with them. Southgate has a bit to answer for
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  #43  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:59 AM
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I still say ditch the club academy route and fund it centrally via the FA.

Ban clubs from signing players until they are 17 but keep the homegrown rules in place for champions league + leagues.

Lets end this obsession with treating 15 / 16 year old kids that can be valued and sold to other clubs for
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  #44  
Old 08-09-2017, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Scoot View Post
Wish more of the first team would take a shot from distance now and then instead of fannying around
Refreshing to see Lokilo who does that
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  #45  
Old 08-09-2017, 12:06 PM
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I wrote it. I take your point, and wouldn't phrase it that way again but it was in reference to the sentence immediately before that one - about the U16 player.

Hungbo has a pro deal with Palace so it would take a lot to get him I expect.
When can we offer pro deals, and how many years is his contract? Thought you could only offer pro deals to players 18+.
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  #46  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by glaziers fan View Post
When can we offer pro deals, and how many years is his contract? Thought you could only offer pro deals to players 18+.
A player can be offered a pro deal at pretty much any age above 14 I think.

The contract only comes into force on the 17th birthday.

A lot of players these days sign scholarships (aged 16) with pro deals attached. Kian Flanagan did that for us when he signed. Nya Kirby the same. Francis Baptiste may have been another.
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Last edited by Woosie; 08-09-2017 at 03:46 PM.
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  #47  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
A player can be offered a pro deal at pretty much any age. The contract only comes into force on the 17th birthday.

A lot of players these days sign scholarships (aged 16) with pro deals attached. Kian Flanagan did that for us when he signed. Nya Kirby the same. Francis Baptiste may have been another.
Thanks for this.

And presumably that means until the 17th birthday the player can be poached for relative peanuts (compensation) still? It's not the offering or signing of the pro contract that's the crucial bit, it's the pro contract coming into force?
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  #48  
Old 08-09-2017, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
He's best as a winger but he's played as a No 10 this season. He is extremely quick, good close control and a powerful shot. Likes to shoot from distance, crosses the ball well.
Blimey, on that basis sounds like he'd walk in to our first team!

Debut vs Burnley?
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  #49  
Old 09-09-2017, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wycombe Eagle#2 View Post
They therefore ditched the academy and started a B team. The B team is a squad of u23 players, many from Europe. The hope is they then progress to the full squad. Basically their fixtures are invite games against the like of Man City u23s for example.
I dont understand it...surely the whole process is crying out for a return of the Combination League ?

What could be more simpler ?
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  #50  
Old 09-09-2017, 12:41 PM
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Hungbo scored a penalty in Palace U18s' 4-0 win at Huddersfield today. Sean Robertson (x2), and Brandon (a trialist) with the other goals.

Also, a thread here on the current state of Palace's academy if anyone's interested: To view the link you have to Register or Login
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by adman50 View Post
Woosie- what is your opinion of teams like Brentford ditching the whole academy set up in favour of a B team. I recently read that Huddersfield were going to save over 2m a year doing so.
Wycombe Eagle's post is an excellent one and is well worth reading.

I don't know, it's not an easy thing to have a full opinion on from the outside looking in, regardless of how much information I can retain on how the academy process works.

Until this year I found it very difficult to find information about any age group below the U18s.

Ultimately, I think the academy set-up is the best idea, but it depends on the way in which it is structured, the coaches, the pool of talent you are able to attract, the funding provided etc etc.

The academy also has a lot to be grateful for in respect of educating and developing young men in their personal lives, providing them with a lifeline from a difficult start in life - especially in some of the areas Palace recruit from.

Huddersfield's catchment area is significantly smaller than Palace's, and Palace often take Chelsea's cast-offs. That plays a part in it.

EPPP was a step in the right direction but was also deeply flawed. It has (literally) created a four-tier system. Whereas before, Palace would play Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man United, they know no longer have that chance. If you can't play against the best then you have less of an opportunity to develop into the best player, and the club also has a slimmer chance of attracting the best young players to the club and the best coaches.

I don't agree with scrapping the entire academy and focussing on a B team, but I can see why some clubs have done it. If everyone does that then it kind of defeats the point. It would be far better to collectively lobby the PL/FA to create a new plan for the professional development of youth footballers.
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  #52  
Old 09-09-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Woosie View Post
Wycombe Eagle's post is an excellent one and is well worth reading.

I don't know, it's not an easy thing to have a full opinion on from the outside looking in, regardless of how much information I can retain on how the academy process works.

Until this year I found it very difficult to find information about any age group below the U18s.

Ultimately, I think the academy set-up is the best idea, but it depends on the way in which it is structured, the coaches, the pool of talent you are able to attract, the funding provided etc etc.

The academy also has a lot to be grateful for in respect of educating and developing young men in their personal lives, providing them with a lifeline from a difficult start in life - especially in some of the areas Palace recruit from.

Huddersfield's catchment area is significantly smaller than Palace's, and Palace often take Chelsea's cast-offs. That plays a part in it.

EPPP was a step in the right direction but was also deeply flawed. It has (literally) created a four-tier system. Whereas before, Palace would play Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man United, they know no longer have that chance. If you can't play against the best then you have less of an opportunity to develop into the best player, and the club also has a slimmer chance of attracting the best young players to the club and the best coaches.

I don't agree with scrapping the entire academy and focussing on a B team, but I can see why some clubs have done it. If everyone does that then it kind of defeats the point. It would be far better to collectively lobby the PL/FA to create a new plan for the professional development of youth footballers.
Thanks - As ever insightful. From a far less well informed position I would agree re EPPP which seems to me to yet another example of something defined in the name of developing the best players that has even more to do with protecting the status quo re the 'big clubs' as does STCC and FFP.

The dilemma is that it is very difficult to bring the youth players into a Premier League side unless they really are an exceptional talent (I.e. can compete at 19-21 with senior, experienced players). Players of that talent are few and far between, by definition, as senior players are drawn from the best in the world. So when they are that good they attract the big clubs who steal them early leaving us with the cost of them and the rest covered by a pittance if we are lucky. Southampton after many years investment and a class leading academy/scouting setup, seemed to have nailed that but I think even that may be slowing down a little in terms of flowing through to the first team.

I would be gutted if they were to stop funding the academy and I hope they do crack the facilities, structure and investment. I think they have been upgrading the quality of the youngsters and there are some exciting ones by the sounds of it in the pipeline but can we keep them and can we harness them. I would say DeBoer is the first Manager we have had for a long long while that would consider them seriously. But ......
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  #53  
Old 17-09-2017, 10:01 AM
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The Mirror now reporting that Chelsea are also interested and Palace would be due compensation. That's incorrect, they would have to agree a fee with us as he has a pro deal in place.
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