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  #61  
Old 21-09-2017, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
More importantly, what do the Catalans aim to do with football? Are there election posters with, We Demand Celtic Status for Barcelona?
There would have to be a special law passed if they wanted to be in the Spanish league set up like there was for Andorra.
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  #62  
Old 21-09-2017, 04:53 PM
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Does Valencia count as Catalonia?
Separate autonomous communities.
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  #63  
Old 21-09-2017, 04:53 PM
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Pat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
There has been talk of joining the French league ŕ la Monaco. Not sure if that one has legs.

Valencia comes under Paisos Catalans (especially Castelló). Same as the Balearic islands and the bit of Aragon where they speak Catalan (la Franja)
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  #64  
Old 21-09-2017, 05:22 PM
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They still have a bullfighting ring in Vinaros.
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  #65  
Old 21-09-2017, 05:34 PM
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Pat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPat of the Palace came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
We still have bullfighting rings in Catalunya, just no bullfighting. None in the canaries either but no one mentions that.
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  #66  
Old 21-09-2017, 05:44 PM
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Does Valencia count as Catalonia?
No if you ask Valencians. Catalan nationalist count Valencia and the Balearic Islands as Paisos Catalans.
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  #67  
Old 21-09-2017, 05:46 PM
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There has been talk of joining the French league ŕ la Monaco. Not sure if that one has legs.

Valencia comes under Paisos Catalans (especially Castelló). Same as the Balearic islands and the bit of Aragon where they speak Catalan (la Franja)
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  #68  
Old 23-09-2017, 08:37 AM
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Protests are continuing in Catalonia after Spanish police moved to prevent a planned referendum on independence from taking place on 1 October. Mireia Borrell Porta argues that the European Union should take a more active role in responding to the tensions. She writes that the suggestion the issue is simply an internal one to be dealt with by the Spanish government is no longer credible.
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  #69  
Old 23-09-2017, 09:01 AM
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This is very interesting. The green bar is the ruling coalition between left and right wing nationalists; the yellow bar is the anarcho communist nationalist grouping whose votes keep the coalition in power. The purple grouping is a general left grouping which is neither nationalist nor unionist, as represented by the mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau, and the unionist parties are down the bottom - red socialists, blue the Spanish nationalist right (Spain's governing party) PP, and orange the liberal unionist Ciudadanos.
These are voting intentions - the anarchist communist CUP has far higher support in the wealthiest part of Catalan society than in the poorest and considerably more than the PP in this section. Among the less wealthy the situation is reversed.
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  #70  
Old 23-09-2017, 09:57 AM
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This is very interesting. The green bar is the ruling coalition between left and right wing nationalists; the yellow bar is the anarcho communist nationalist grouping whose votes keep the coalition in power. The purple grouping is a general left grouping which is neither nationalist nor unionist, as represented by the mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau, and the unionist parties are down the bottom - red socialists, blue the Spanish nationalist right (Spain's governing party) PP, and orange the liberal unionist Ciudadanos.
These are voting intentions - the anarchist communist CUP has far higher support in the wealthiest part of Catalan society than in the poorest and considerably more than the PP in this section. Among the less wealthy the situation is reversed.
So is the referendum likely to take place or will the Spanish government carryout it's threat ?
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  #71  
Old 23-09-2017, 10:51 AM
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There will be some sort of plebiscite, I expect. Most people won't be able to or won't want to vote and the numbers will be dubious, I guess.
In the future who knows? A referendum to approve a new constitution would be best, in my opinion. Some sort of back room deal is probably more likely.
Are you gnoring the graph? Don't you think it's interesting that the independence movement is driven by the upper class?
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  #72  
Old 23-09-2017, 10:53 AM
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We still have bullfighting rings in Catalunya, just no bullfighting. None in the canaries either but no one mentions that.
I don't think there are any in Galicia.
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  #73  
Old 23-09-2017, 11:20 AM
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There will be some sort of plebiscite, I expect. Most people won't be able to or won't want to vote and the numbers will be dubious, I guess.
In the future who knows? A referendum to approve a new constitution would be best, in my opinion. Some sort of back room deal is probably more likely.
Are you gnoring the graph? Don't you think it's interesting that the independence movement is driven by the upper class?
Driven or funded ? How many political campaigns can achieve their aims in a western world that uses the capitalist system without the funding and support of the upper-classes wealth ?
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  #74  
Old 23-09-2017, 11:40 AM
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The votes.
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  #75  
Old 23-09-2017, 12:07 PM
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This is very interesting. The green bar is the ruling coalition between left and right wing nationalists; the yellow bar is the anarcho communist nationalist grouping whose votes keep the coalition in power. The purple grouping is a general left grouping which is neither nationalist nor unionist, as represented by the mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau, and the unionist parties are down the bottom - red socialists, blue the Spanish nationalist right (Spain's governing party) PP, and orange the liberal unionist Ciudadanos.
These are voting intentions - the anarchist communist CUP has far higher support in the wealthiest part of Catalan society than in the poorest and considerably more than the PP in this section. Among the less wealthy the situation is reversed.
Surely that's because the poorer parts are where a lot of the Spanish speakers are. As I'm sure you know a lot of poor Andalucians, Gallegos and South Americans headed towards Catalunya looking for work.
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  #76  
Old 23-09-2017, 01:40 PM
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Whatever the reason I think it shines a light on the motives behind the drive for independence and the kind of place Catalonia would be afterwards.
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Old 23-09-2017, 03:07 PM
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Whatever the reason I think it shines a light on the motives behind the drive for independence and the kind of place Catalonia would be afterwards.
I think the previous poster makes a fair point. Immigrants first, second and even third generation tend to see themselves as living in a part of Spain. The older established catalans seem themselves as living in Catalunya.

I think the chart proves nothing.

Put simply those that are called Jordi are more likely to vote for independence than those called Juan.
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Old 23-09-2017, 03:42 PM
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Put simply those that are called Jordi are more likely to vote for independence than those called Juan.
Yeah nicely put.
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  #79  
Old 23-09-2017, 04:44 PM
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Really? Well, like the rest of the developed world, in Spain, the upheaval of the last ten years has hit hardest in the poorest parts of society. Worse here than in most other places, in truth. You might think they would vote for the most disruptive and radical political change, cf Brexit, or Trump. Instead, the graphs suggest that the radical change - secession after an illegal plebiscite is more radical than either Brexit or Trump, let's be honest - is the choice of the most privileged elite.
I wouldn't call that nothing to see here.
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Old 23-09-2017, 06:32 PM
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Really? Well, like the rest of the developed world, in Spain, the upheaval of the last ten years has hit hardest in the poorest parts of society. Worse here than in most other places, in truth. You might think they would vote for the most disruptive and radical political change, cf Brexit, or Trump. Instead, the graphs suggest that the radical change - secession after an illegal plebiscite is more radical than either Brexit or Trump, let's be honest - is the choice of the most privileged elite.
I wouldn't call that nothing to see here.
I agree that this is being driven by the Barcelona elite and the indigenous land and property owners in the countryside. And when I see elite I mean culturally as much as business, finance and politics.

But these are the families that have always lived there. Again it is the indigenous that are driving this and the indigenous make up a large proportion of the elite. I am not so sure what is odd about this and why you who knows the country so well finds it so strange.

I mean the anarchists also want this, guess what CNT AIT is a Catalan movement always has been. This what I mean by cultural elite even if by their very definition an anarchist union is anti-elitist.

Viewers of Catalan TV and Barcelona FC members will also be more likely to want independence.

The thing about Catalans is they are generally pretty open to the rest of europe and the world. They just have a problem with Madrid - and its fascist history. I get that, even if I like you I am not a fan of top down nationalism, I don't think they will hate the rest of the world only castille.
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