Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS » Off Topic » General Chit Chat

Notices

General Chit Chat Off topic conversations. Please do not post CPFC or sport related threads here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 31-10-2017, 01:56 PM
Skintagain Skintagain is offline
Hello Everyone
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Just outside the EU
Posts: 6,568
Rep Power: 21474843
Skintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
What is the overall value of the country?
To view the link you have to Register or Login

£8Tril. Lets say $10 tril. The point I'm making here is that is you print another £8Tril the country is then worth £16Tril but still $10Tril dollars.

The government now have shit loads of money but the money you have is worth far less, surely you remember the seventies. Its all been done before.
__________________
We should just walk away
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 31-10-2017, 02:41 PM
wedgetail's Avatar
wedgetail wedgetail is offline
Penguin Liberation Front
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Before the Skaian gate of Ilion
Posts: 9,690
Rep Power: 21474855
wedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
None of this makes any sense to me at all. I see qualitative descriptions of it but never a mathematical one.
When the bank extends a loan which is claimed to be creation of money it is matched by the debt of loaner. Therefore overall balance nothing has changed. If it did we'd all be rich by loaning money to each other. Which countries in the world do this?
Printing Money or QED whichever is the fashionable term, is simply a form of tax, with everybody paying the same % as their money/earnings become worth less. You can print as much money as you like but the overall value of the country will not change.

Fake news.
It does make sense. Ever bought anthing with a credit card? Where was the money before your purchase?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 31-10-2017, 02:53 PM
Skintagain Skintagain is offline
Hello Everyone
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Just outside the EU
Posts: 6,568
Rep Power: 21474843
Skintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedgetail View Post
It does make sense. Ever bought anthing with a credit card? Where was the money before your purchase?
In the bank presumably lent them by depositors, now in the hands of the retailer. Nothing has been created.
__________________
We should just walk away
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 31-10-2017, 03:14 PM
Raggy's Avatar
Raggy Raggy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,102
Rep Power: 13014248
Raggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
None of this makes any sense to me at all. I see qualitative descriptions of it but never a mathematical one.
When the bank extends a loan which is claimed to be creation of money it is matched by the debt of loaner. Therefore overall balance nothing has changed. If it did we'd all be rich by loaning money to each other. Which countries in the world do this?
Printing Money or QED whichever is the fashionable term, is simply a form of tax, with everybody paying the same % as their money/earnings become worth less. You can print as much money as you like but the overall value of the country will not change.

Fake news.
You almost had me that you know what you are talking about on this subject.

Then I saw your user-name.

Last edited by Raggy; 31-10-2017 at 03:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 31-10-2017, 03:16 PM
Raggy's Avatar
Raggy Raggy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,102
Rep Power: 13014248
Raggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
A failure of government to own money creation and supply (not to set its volume) leads to considerable detriment of citizens. Just one example of this is PFI. In Norwich PFI hospital cost £215m to build, mortgaged to Norfolk citizens health budget for 65 years. Currently they are paying in excess of £38m per year to meet that mortgage. £38m x 65 years = £2.47billion. These payments should be going on patient care.

The alternative way of funding the building of our infrastructure, hospitals/council housing etc. Is for a national infrastructure bank to issue bonds to the Bank of England - which in exchange created the money required for the construction of these needs.

The bonds would be at 0 interest rate - so the government and its departments would no longer finance the interest payments to commerical banks.
PFI must be one of the dumbest ideas in the whole history of dumb government ideas. People should have been sent down for it.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 31-10-2017, 03:18 PM
Raggy's Avatar
Raggy Raggy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,102
Rep Power: 13014248
Raggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
The most troubling thing about this, is the number of people who run our country who don't understand it.
Shocking isn't it. Just 15% of MPs.

I honestly think a higher proportion of the BBS would understand it.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 31-10-2017, 03:31 PM
SE25 exile's Avatar
SE25 exile SE25 exile is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: on a small island with too many small minds.
Posts: 17,161
Rep Power: 21474854
SE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is hereSE25 exile Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
To view the link you have to Register or Login

£8Tril. Lets say $10 tril. The point I'm making here is that is you print another £8Tril the country is then worth £16Tril but still $10Tril dollars.

The government now have shit loads of money but the money you have is worth far less, surely you remember the seventies. Its all been done before.
I have to say it, but your link is the most appalling tripe I have ever recently read, and has been written to appeal to the simplest of minds. How many Gareth Bales could we buy if we sold our country? I mean this is lower than Sun reader stuff.

The true answer to what anything is worth, is that is it worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it, and often the whole is worth far more than the sum of the parts. I would say our beautiful countryside and coastline is worth far more than £10 trillion, and what worth is a country when its own population and its talents and skills are not taken into account too? Trite story.
__________________
The UK reapplies for its old "Sick Man of Europe" credentials
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 31-10-2017, 03:49 PM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Happy Felix Day!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 40
Posts: 57,422
Rep Power: 21474850
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
Shocking isn't it. Just 15% of MPs.

I honestly think a higher proportion of the BBS would understand it.
Really? More than 15% of the BBS would understand fractional reserve banking?

Are you new here?
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 31-10-2017, 04:04 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,113
Rep Power: 21474847
Nth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is here
Actually the government already does loan money to public sector organisations for investment. It's called the Public Works Loans Board. The trouble is there has been some of the same problems with the early PFIs that took place in the years before the depression of 2008. Councils and others borrowed money long term at what they thought were cheap interest rates compared to the general market. Then when rates crashed they are/were saddled with higher than current interest rates. The government could ease these conditions on councils if they chose, but so far haven't. Incidentally, some of the councils are using this system to borrow money and invest in commercial property way outside their area.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 31-10-2017, 04:06 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,113
Rep Power: 21474847
Nth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Really? More than 15% of the BBS would understand fractional reserve banking?

Are you new here?
When I studied economics the credit creation multiplier was 10.9 but that was in the late 80s. Not sure what it is now.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 31-10-2017, 04:13 PM
Raggy's Avatar
Raggy Raggy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,102
Rep Power: 13014248
Raggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietRaggy came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Really? More than 15% of the BBS would understand fractional reserve banking?

Are you new here?
Who said anything about fractional reserve banking or whatever you call it?

The OP quote was "85% of MPs were unaware that new money is created every time a bank extends a loan."

I think more that 15% of BBSers would have understood that simple concept, yes. I would and I am no economic whizz.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 31-10-2017, 04:18 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,113
Rep Power: 21474847
Nth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is hereNth Kent Eagle Sam the man is here
So, if the banks don't lend money how do we get on the housing ladder? Save up and put down a 100% deposit? Or should we nationalise mortgage lending completely?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 31-10-2017, 04:50 PM
wedgetail's Avatar
wedgetail wedgetail is offline
Penguin Liberation Front
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Before the Skaian gate of Ilion
Posts: 9,690
Rep Power: 21474855
wedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
I have to say it, but your link is the most appalling tripe I have ever recently read, and has been written to appeal to the simplest of minds. How many Gareth Bales could we buy if we sold our country? I mean this is lower than Sun reader stuff.

The true answer to what anything is worth, is that is it worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it, and often the whole is worth far more than the sum of the parts. I would say our beautiful countryside and coastline is worth far more than £10 trillion, and what worth is a country when its own population and its talents and skills are not taken into account too? Trite story.
A very good story that seemed to go over your head.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 31-10-2017, 08:26 PM
Skintagain Skintagain is offline
Hello Everyone
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Just outside the EU
Posts: 6,568
Rep Power: 21474843
Skintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is here
I still don't get it.

I start a bank, someone deposits £100. I, the bank lend £50 to someone who now owes the bank £50. The bank still has £50.

Where has money been created?
__________________
We should just walk away
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 31-10-2017, 08:32 PM
bigGcpfc bigGcpfc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 613
Rep Power: 7862115
bigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbigGcpfc came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Err The interest on the money lent out, maybe.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 31-10-2017, 08:41 PM
Eagle's Nest Eagle's Nest is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,980
Rep Power: 21474842
Eagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
That money wasn't fake ...the collatorised debt obligations taken out on the mortgages were
I see that money as fake. Bankers earned their cut from the deals and then went off and spent it. That was then recalculated as part of the economic downturn. I appreciate it wasn't a huge amount in the grand scheme of things, but it created more than just fake collatorised debt (which presumably was also sold multiple times?)
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 31-10-2017, 08:43 PM
Eagle's Nest Eagle's Nest is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,980
Rep Power: 21474842
Eagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
I still don't get it.

I start a bank, someone deposits £100. I, the bank lend £50 to someone who now owes the bank £50. The bank still has £50.

Where has money been created?
Don't tell this person how much they're really paying for their house.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 31-10-2017, 08:46 PM
Skintagain Skintagain is offline
Hello Everyone
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Just outside the EU
Posts: 6,568
Rep Power: 21474843
Skintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is hereSkintagain Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigGcpfc View Post
Err The interest on the money lent out, maybe.
It makes money for the bank but it has come from the lender, again nothing has been created.
__________________
We should just walk away
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 31-10-2017, 08:55 PM
Adlerhorst's Avatar
Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
Happy Felix Day!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 40
Posts: 57,422
Rep Power: 21474850
Adlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is hereAdlerhorst Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
I still don't get it.
that’s primarily because it has been explained abysmally.
__________________
The Defector looks like no other breaking pitch in the game. It is well-supinated, leaving the right hand of Fernandez at a fastball trajectory before the laws of physics cease to apply and the laws of awesome take over.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 31-10-2017, 08:58 PM
Eagle's Nest Eagle's Nest is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,980
Rep Power: 21474842
Eagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is hereEagle's Nest Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
that’s primarily because it has been explained abysmally.
My wife mansplained inflation to me yesterday using Freddo bars.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.