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  #81  
Old 31-10-2017, 11:35 PM
cdm61 cdm61 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
And what would maintain this independency in the event that a majority government (of either persuasion) enacted laws in our parliamentary democracy removing the independence?

Parliament can do as parliament wishes. It's why we have to look at those Henry VIII clauses being put through parliament now and understand that rogue governments (of either persuasion) can seek control and manipulate.

I'm all for a Star Trek world of no money and self betterment. It's never going to happen though as people are arseholes.
You build in hurdles - you ensure that a party in power finds it very difficult to dismantle the arrangements - in the end the government can be voted in and out
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  #82  
Old 31-10-2017, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
It would require and independent monetary group - not made up of MP's - that would recommend the economy's need for money - either on the consumption side or productive side - taxation would be used to control for inflation/deflation - Banks would have to be 100% reserve.
Monetarism do you mean?
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  #83  
Old 31-10-2017, 11:43 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is online now
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
You build in hurdles - you ensure that a party in power finds it very difficult to dismantle the arrangements - in the end the government can be voted in and out
Fair enough. It will take one hell of a majority to bring something like that in.

It still depends on the independency of the monetary makers. Keeping the people in charge of the 7th biggest economy in the world not being self serving nor influencable.

Problem is people are self serving and influencable.

The government can be voted in or out and a right wing ukipper government with a stomping majority would love absolute control like you describe. One vote to take complete control ...
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  #84  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:34 AM
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What I've learned, the magic money tree is just normal lending, nothing to see here.

Proposal for QE, to spend on infrastructure, well I'm sure the government think they do that anyway.

Also to give away vast sums of money to people to promote a consumer boom and possibly pay down debt. I can see how that would be popular.

QE is inflation there is no way round it, nothing is free. In fact QE after 2008 because of its inflationary nature probably saved us from a recession.

I'm seriously underwhelmed by this smoke and mirrors scheme. Especially as its been tried already.

The other thing I've learned is that I now see the idea behind the QE money the government gave to the banks which I had thought outrageous at the time. I now see it as an act of stupidity.
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  #85  
Old 01-11-2017, 07:56 AM
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Here's my response

What I've learned, the magic money tree is just normal lending, nothing to see here. No its not - it is not the lending out of depositors money to borrowers. It is almost uncontrolled money creation mainly to residential and commercial mortgages - it has created dreadful house price inflation. What's more it creates booms and slumps and great recessions.

Proposal for QE, to spend on infrastructure, well I'm sure the government think they do that anyway. No they don't the most recent method for infrastructure (hospitals, schools, social housing, roads) was through and still is by PFI - its slowed due to the banks not lending. It costs the public purse vast amounts of interest payments that should go toward services.

Also to give away vast sums of money to people to promote a consumer boom and possibly pay down debt. I can see how that would be popular. Yes this is the Citizen's income proposal - which versions of it are being tried out in Finland and the Netherlands.

QE is inflation there is no way round it, nothing is free. [/B]In fact QE after 2008 because of its inflationary nature probably saved us from a recession.[/B] It didn't save us it curbed the recession and stopped it being a full blown depression & ensured we had money available in cash machines. Creating money without corresponding items to purchase if unchecked is inflationary. But bank created money is free it costs next to nothing to type the amounts into your account. They could not do this with coin and note that would be illegal counterfeiting.

I'm seriously underwhelmed by this smoke and mirrors scheme. Especially as its been tried already. What's smoke and mirrors? If the government created its own money for the purposes of functioning services and infrastructure it would save trillions on interest payments.

The other thing I've learned is that I now see the idea behind the QE money the government gave to the banks which I had thought outrageous at the time. I now see it as an act of stupidity. It wasn't an act of stupidity it helped ensure that there was money in the economy. But it was misdirected money - free to the banks - some should have gone into economic growth - such as infrastructure to get us out of recession faster.
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  #86  
Old 01-11-2017, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
...
QE is inflation there is no way round it ...
It depends. If the economy is running at 100% capacity then QE will cause inflation. The economy cannot create more goods or services so prices rise to mop up the cash. If the economy is running at less than capacity QE can allow businesses to increase production and generate more wealth.

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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
...
...In fact QE after 2008 because of its inflationary nature probably saved us from a recession...
Yes, when the economy is in deep doo doo massive QE is the standard response from central bankers and, by and large, it works. You can thank us for Mark Carney. As the economy recovers the QE needs to be reigned back in to maintain the balance between the need for money and the money in circulation. This is a lot more unpopular.
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  #87  
Old 02-11-2017, 11:51 AM
cdm61 cdm61 is offline
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Banks stole an estimated 27bn from us so far through PPI - they insisted we had for the debt contracts sold to us To view the link you have to Register or Login

The thinktank New City Agenda has estimated that the industry has run up a 43bn bill in handling claims and paying compensation.

The FCA estimates that 64m PPI policies were sold, mostly between 1990 and 2010, and that more than 27bn had been paid back to customers who had complained before new campaign began. PPI was sold alongside loans, credit cards, mortgages and other forms of borrowing to protect repayments if income was lost through redundancy or ill health.

The high-street banks are braced for claims, and last month Lloyds Banking Group, which has run up the biggest bill, of 18bn, said inquiries were being made at a higher rate than it had expected.

Lloyds received 16,000 complaints a week immediately after the FCA campaign was launched, a figure that has since fallen to 11,000 a week. This is still higher than the 9,000 a week it had forecast.
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