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  #41  
Old 04-01-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Any article suggesting we sign a player on loan from another English club is clearly poorly researched.
I can't find that article but if it's referring to Celtic, aren't they a Scottish club?
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  #42  
Old 04-01-2018, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir.S.C Remembered View Post
He is young so goal records tend to not be as good at those ages, but his record at Fulham is not amazing and it is 1 in 2 at Celtic. 1 in 2 in the context of their dominance is not ridiculous. It is a big jump to the Premier League but would be good to analyse his performances in Europe if I were a scout (factoring in how many players up unsustainable effort levels for these games).

Tough to judge, but then Virgil made the jump so much.
This type of thinking makes me angry.

Football transfers are not about buying sure things. This is especially true for centre forwards.

The only teams who can buy guaranteed goals are the top teams and even then it can go very wrong, see Vincent Janssen.

You need to buy potential. Either kids like Moussa or older players not fulfilling their talent.

Would we have bought Wright or AJ based on their records?
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  #43  
Old 04-01-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Brod View Post
I can't find that article but if it's referring to Celtic, aren't they a Scottish club?
No the whole article is about Palace.
  #44  
Old 04-01-2018, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
However the fee to us would have been big as he would have been on a tribunal at the end of the season to an English club. Celtic are able to take advantage of the foreign club rules and therefore not face tribunal and get him for knockdown fee.
I read that Spurs had agreed a fee of £5/6m, so that was the most we would have paid. Spurs finished third that season with Kane and Alli making a breakthrough so presumably Spurs decided they could look at more expensive options.

We signed Adebayor in the January window and then bought Benteke in the summer.
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Last edited by dave_who_ru; 04-01-2018 at 09:59 AM.
  #45  
Old 04-01-2018, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
This type of thinking makes me angry.

Football transfers are not about buying sure things. This is especially true for centre forwards.

The only teams who can buy guaranteed goals are the top teams and even then it can go very wrong, see Vincent Janssen.

You need to buy potential. Either kids like Moussa or older players not fulfilling their talent.

Would we have bought Wright or AJ based on their records?
Although the fee being touted here (£18m) is higher then the fee Spurs paid for Janssen. Every transfer is a gamble. Strikers from Peterborough look good because they are set up to attack and score goals. Defenders at Burnley look good because they are set up to defend solidly. When put into a team that plays a different way they will look different.

The trouble with Scottish football is the quality of defender and goalkeeper he is having to beat is poor. He scored a 1st minute goal against PSG in a humbling but it was his only goal in Europe. He would be a big gamble for the money he is likely to cost. Scott Sinclair is their top scorer and we have seen him 1st hand.
  #46  
Old 04-01-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dave_who_ru View Post
I read that Spurs had agreed a fee of £5/6m, so that was the most we would have paid. Spurs finished third that season with Kane and Alli making a breakthrough so presumably Spurs decided they could look at more expensive options.

We signed Adebayor in the January window and then bought Benteke in the summer.
If Spurs were convinced by him and could have had him for £5m they would have done. Like they did with Alli, who cost £5m. IF that was the case and he did not go there it is because they were not sure he could do it at PL level in the next couple of years.
  #47  
Old 04-01-2018, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
If Spurs were convinced by him and could have had him for £5m they would have done. Like they did with Alli, who cost £5m. IF that was the case and he did not go there it is because they were not sure he could do it at PL level in the next couple of years.
Reading some reports at the time Spurs were considering better players like Berahino and Batshuayi, so who knows.

They ended up buying Vincent Janssen who is now out on loan.
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  #48  
Old 04-01-2018, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Every transfer is a gamble. Strikers from Peterborough look good because they are set up to attack and score goals. Defenders at Burnley look good because they are set up to defend solidly. When put into a team that plays a different way they will look different.
These are very good points GG and the reason why we often see players struggle in teams where we think they should do better.

Add to this the leap in division (say, Peterborough to premiership club) and you can see why even what seems like a good buy at the time can have fans pulling their hair out, when things don't do as planned - 'well he was scoring for fun at {insert name of former club}'.
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  #49  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:00 AM
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Its staggering to think if we are not interested or not made an enquiry at the very least in a quality young proven player, who's value will only quadruple in time if he proves himself in the premiership which he is more than capable off.
Surely if Brighton have realised the potential of a goldmine then why cant we? we are desperate for another striker if not TWO, so it should be a no brainer especially at the fee mentioned.
  #50  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:01 AM
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I would be more interested in analysing his movement and anticipation. Also can he play as lone striker, in a two or ront three.

If he has at least the 1st, then the quoted price being slightly higher than our left backs last Jan is worth the price in this crazy market.

If he only has the limited movement of a Benteke or Gayle, I suggest it's not.
  #51  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:36 AM
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Don't want us to sign him at all , a 'good' player in a very average league , who did nothing when in the Championship (prem ?)
  #52  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigelbrag View Post
Its staggering to think if we are not interested or not made an enquiry at the very least in a quality young proven player, who's value will only quadruple in time if he proves himself in the premiership which he is more than capable off.
Surely if Brighton have realised the potential of a goldmine then why cant we? we are desperate for another striker if not TWO, so it should be a no brainer especially at the fee mentioned.
Why are you so convinced? 1 in 2 in Scotland is not that amazing and Rodgers doesn’t seem that keen on him this season.
  #53  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:49 AM
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Good player, worth a punt, obviously depending on the price! Maybe we have the same scout looking at him who told warnock van dyke wasn't worth 5 million
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigelbrag View Post
Its staggering to think if we are not interested or not made an enquiry at the very least in a quality young proven player, who's value will only quadruple in time if he proves himself in the premiership which he is more than capable off.
Surely if Brighton have realised the potential of a goldmine then why cant we? we are desperate for another striker if not TWO, so it should be a no brainer especially at the fee mentioned.
This is is assumption at it's best Nigel. £72m as a future potential sell on if he proves himself is pure fancy at the moment, but I agree with you. Talking of other young stars Fulham have produced I prefer Ryan Sessignon, but I think he is earmarked for a top six club.
  #55  
Old 04-01-2018, 12:37 PM
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When you consider players from lower rated leagues you have to look around for clues, in the case of Scotland you need to think of the standard of the defenders that Dembele comes up against and why Rodgers is prepared to sell him?

It used to be the case that the better Scottish players could come into English football and succeed, the playing field has now changed so much that nowadays the top English league is about world footballers and you have to ask if moving to Scotland has enhanced or worked against the progress of Dembele...while he was at Fulham we had a known quantity to measure him against.

We were obviously interested in Tosun in the Turkish league where his goal scoring record is on a par with Adebayor but even at the lower transfer value Palace were involved with It was a risk.
  #56  
Old 04-01-2018, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nigelbrag View Post
Its staggering to think if we are not interested or not made an enquiry at the very least
how do you know we haven't? Pretty sure most clubs will be aware of the fee that Celtic are looking for. If we've deemed it too high then no point enquiring
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:45 PM
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When you consider players from lower rated leagues you have to look around for clues, in the case of Scotland you need to think of the standard of the defenders that Dembele comes up against and why Rodgers is prepared to sell him?
are you serious? You can't see why Celtic would want to to make ~ 20m profit in a couple of months?
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:09 PM
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Don't want us to sign him at all , a 'good' player in a very average league , who did nothing when in the Championship (prem ?)

He was a teenager in the championship wasn’t he? And he wasn’t exactly crap, he attracted a lot of interest back then
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:28 PM
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are you serious? You can't see why Celtic would want to to make ~ 20m profit in a couple of months?
I have not made a comment about transfer value , only about the quality of the player and the risk involved in making an approach to players in lower leagues.

Every club including Celtic want to maximise profit but you have to decide as a buyer if a player matches your criteria first.
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Old 04-01-2018, 02:09 PM
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Don't want us to sign him at all , a 'good' player in a very average league , who did nothing when in the Championship (prem ?)
Utter tosh.

He is being watched very closely by some of the top clubs in Europe. He is a very very good player and would be a top quality singing for us.. so much so it won’t happen
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