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  #41  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BeaverWilly View Post
It may not be illegal but going to great lengths to avoid tax is surely immoral and grotesquely unfair on hard working pay as you earn plebs.

Apartheid was also legal in South Africa but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be frowned upon.

Clearly not exactly comparing like for like with that example but pointing out that illegal/immoral can be a thin line sometimes.

Absolutely.

If people think it's all above board why do the likes of Lord Ashcroft prefer to avoid trying to justify the deceit?

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  #42  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:01 AM
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Breaking news the elite and vicars daughter May want to make the country how it was years ago and most second and third world cou tries are now. Less than 0.1% with all the major wealth and companies. Less than 10%/20% with any form of decent job/business and the rest grateful for anything they can get.
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  #43  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
Do you know why?
For some countries. For others no. One might speculate that they evaluated the position and determined that it would harm them more than it would help them (i.e. they would lose more taxable revenues from their own MNCs than they would gain by taxing Apple and the like, and maybe there were other avenues available for them to attempt to tax Apple et al - though their attempts at that so far have been so poorly thought out it is frankly frightening).

I should say the Us response was brilliant. Amounted to saying “**** off”. That’s not directly trump related either. They always hated it.
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  #44  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Kipungu View Post
Brilliant!
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  #45  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:06 AM
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I think people who say "its all just envy of the rich" need to remember, the majority do not have the option of avoiding tax. They are taxed when they're paid, and taxed when they spend. There is no getting around it.

So, whilst it may not be illegal, to the majority is is immoral and unfair, and evidence of how the rich keep their position over the majority.
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  #46  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by boxthorncutter View Post
Wait, is this the same BBC that blabbers on & on about how Brexit could upset the City of London?

Very selective over the rich they choose to pick on, as usual.

Top 1% already pay 28% of tax revenues in this country btw.
Ah the defender of them. The real problem.
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  #47  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterH View Post
Should be able to use the scandal to stop the payments to royalty out of tax income.
Yes, what a good suggestion.

It will never happen of course
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  #48  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
It makes you wonder why we're always told that the problem is immigrants, refugees, the downtrodden, poor and dispossessed.
We are allowed more than one problem unfortunately.

Although, the failure of our reptilian overlords to integrate into mainstream society is a big one.
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  #49  
Old 06-11-2017, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
I guess either you believe in free(ish) trade and free(ish) movement of wealth, or you don't. I would rather have the system we do now than currency controls and needing a licence to take five hundred quid out of the contry for your summer holiday.

Avoiding tax is not illegal; investing overseas is not illegal; yet even though the reports make that caveat once or twice the tone of all the reportage is that this is a massive scandal and heinous wrongdoing has been exposed.

Even bog-standard high street stocks & shares ISAs will have exposure to overseas investments. (In fact, owing to the principle of spreading risk, it would be concerning if they didn't.) So to imply that just because someone has money overseas, or in trusts, they are automatically shady is very unfair. In some ways it's tantamount to defamation.

That's not to say that some structures aren't complicated and opaque; or that money laundering or tax evasion doesn't go on - of course it does: domestically as well as internationally. But without evidence that someone has broken the law, the coverage is snide and laughable, really. I mean, one of the whinges the Beeb has against the Queen is that some of her money was in Threshers, which collapsed and went out of business. Right, so your point being...?

Find the people who've stolen money, who've evaded tax, who've broken the law and expose them. Leave everyone else out of it. This petty finger-pointing is myopic, seemingly driven by envy of the rich, and doesn't really consider wider issues.

I think you miss the point. They can do this because the rules are bent to them to do it. Regardless of how long this has gone on for many people see this as unfair and unacceptable, and want them to pay their share regardless of how absurd a concept this may be to some, and that means change by mass will.

As an analogy, it seemed that sexual abuse was seen as 'ok' in the 1970's and 80's for the elite celebrities, but the chickens came home to roost in the end, but that was easy to get the celebrities, but getting the real wealthy and powerful?

It's all especially poignant in light of the austerity drive and the immigrant/foreigner blame game. The elite use the gullible to back up their innocence in all of this, you can tell who these people are pretty much by their posts in the Brexit thread.

I say string 'em up
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  #50  
Old 06-11-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
Just imagine they've £trillions stashed away from the taxman yet they still want more in the form of tax cuts. Why does the Queen need our money? She stashes hers away to avoid tax.
Interesting am I wrong but is the Queen not also the monarch of Bermuda ? So she is the monarch but cannot invest in Bermuda.....
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  #51  
Old 06-11-2017, 12:57 PM
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Wrong answer. A tax on all movement of money across national borders is essential.
Too broad, impossible to implement and ultimately too damaging.i would introduce point of consumption taxes on companies for all consumable goods and introduce financial transaction taxes, the city wouldn't like it but I can't figure why they get away with it (and I'm a fund manager)
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  #52  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Interesting am I wrong but is the Queen not also the monarch of Bermuda ? So she is the monarch but cannot invest in Bermuda.....
What? You think these people are 'investing' in these places?

With the trillions going to such small islands surely then the streets are paved with gold. Are you just arguing for the sake of it or do you believe that all of this is right?
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  #53  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
What? You think these people are 'investing' in these places?

With the trillions going to such small islands surely then the streets are paved with gold. Are you just arguing for the sake of it or do you believe that all of this is right?
I was pointing out that its not illegal , it was specific to the Queen she probably has no idea where it was invested.
That there are a few on here complaining loudly about the super rich who are likely to find pensions and savings are just as "guilty" with funds invested abroad. Do you know where your pension funds any ISA are invested ? Yes there are issues but some of it is just non news
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  #54  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
It makes you wonder why we're always told that the problem is immigrants, refugees, the downtrodden, poor and dispossessed.
who tells you that


..apart from when you read the Daily Express
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  #55  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:09 PM
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Personally, I would concentrate on the politicians and their families first.

This is not a grand expose - the same kind of wikileak came out two years ago.
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  #56  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
I was pointing out that its not illegal , it was specific to the Queen she probably has no idea where it was invested.
That there are a few on here complaining loudly about the super rich who are likely to find pensions and savings are just as "guilty" with funds invested abroad. Do you know where your pension funds any ISA are invested ? Yes there are issues but some of it is just non news
We're all guilty of greed, but to compare someone with a pension or an ISA to the obscene wealth grabs orchestrated by the super rich at the expense of the rest of us is a tad OTT.
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  #57  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:28 PM
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There is some weird stuff there. The whole Jimmy Carr thing was when? Five years ago. The schemes almost certainly fall foul of the disguised remuneration rules and are artificial. Yet “celebs” are still doing them and claiming “we didn’t know”. Weird.
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Old 06-11-2017, 03:14 PM
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Owning stuff domiciled outside the UK is not illegal. Tax evasion is.

There is a difference. Despite the hysteria it doesn't automatically follow that all offshore investment is tax evasion and therefore illegal.
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Old 06-11-2017, 03:28 PM
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The lack of interest and lack of outrage in this thread says it all and why nothing will happen. I think Corbyn would but he'll get blocked by these powerful bastards.
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Old 06-11-2017, 03:32 PM
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[QUOTE=BeaverWilly;13931983]It may not be illegal but going to great lengths to avoid tax is surely immoral and grotesquely unfair on hard working pay as you earn plebs.

Apartheid was also legal in South Africa but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be frowned upon.

Clearly not exactly comparing like for like with that example but pointing out that illegal/immoral can be a thin line sometimes]

and her maj even invested in Brighthouse a company that exploits the poorest in society- shameful - why on earth should honest tax payers subsidise her and her billionaire family. the very term tax avoidance suggests a level of deceit and dishonesty and contempt for others
This government nor New labour with its sucking up to the super rich i has had any real intention of tightening up on what is defined as tax avoidance/evasion . There should now quickly be a redefinition of what comes under these headings.
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