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  #61  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:18 PM
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Speroni
Ward - Dann - Sakho - Schlupp
X - Cabaye
Townsend---------X------------X
Benteke

Think 8 of our starting XI (and party for that reason) are at Beckenham over the international break. I expect they will be doing a lot of work on the shape and way to play. Given he may not be training till Wednesday possibly an argument for Reidewald to come in for Luka. So in training it is those area where you might expect RLC and certainly Zaha to come in that we are missing.

Would therefore hope we will be playing to Benteke's strengths in the next game with time and opportunity on our side.
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  #62  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Thefunkymonk View Post
Need to give him service and support and not leave him so isolated
Agreed, which means Wilf (who works hard to cover the ground) NOT Loftus-Cheek (who is talented but lazy) close to him in Roy's 4-4-2.

4-4-2 with Zaha and we will see a different Benteke to the one we saw in 4-2-3-1 or under FdB. It will suit him more. Which is strange, because when we signed CB I thought he could operate as a lone striker. But he is not as effective there because he is not quite explosive enough on the ball to do it alone. He needs support, and the more we give him the better he will do.

Another way to give him more service would be to push the full backs higher up the pitch, and get them crossing. It remains to be seen if PVA or TFM can cross, but the others (apart from Pape Souare) definitely can't. Townsend can stand up a good ball. A ball in like Wilf's for Sakho's chance on Sunday would be ideal for Benteke. Quality crosses rather than hoofs upfield are what he needs. He can hold it up but it needs the midfielders to play it up to him below head height, not long balls up top from the defenders or the keeper.
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  #63  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:21 PM
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He is a target. Not in a lump the ball forward way, but he's someone the defenders have to look out for. With just Wilf and Townsend, they can be doubled up on. Have Ben playing, he's the target for defenders and if they still want to double up on the wingers, they have to bring someone from midfield. Which in turn, free's up space for our midfielders to join up with the attack more.

He doesn't need to run around. He uses his energy when he knows it will benefit the team. Just like all good strikers. If he charged around and scored 20 a season, he wouldn't be at Palace. He'd be in a champions league team.
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  #64  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
Not sure i agree with some of the excuses and rationalisation of his early form.

I think the only reason he doesn't have 3 or more goals this season is that he has failed to take his chances. Some of them were easy, some trickier but all within his ability when on form. He played in 6 games. I don't think he needs crucifying or demonizing but he just didn't hit the 'finishing form' that we have seen before. I am pretty sure that he was carrying an injury before the Man City game and maybe that was an issue.

There is regular talk about him not getting the service. I take this to be a reference to the fact that he doesn't spend the whole day nodding in crosses. I wouldn't hold your breath. Wilf really isn't the sort of winger that does the conventional byline and cross to the far post thing. He is all about disrupting defences and creating openings. He will eventually pull it back but rarely in the air. Townsend does but TBH Benteke doesn't actually attack the ball in open play like most CFs. If it comes to him - boom - but there is little movement in the way that you would see from Carroll, Vokes or even Murray etc.. he still scores a lot of goals though and he just recovers that form we will all be happy. My point though is that we are unlikely to see a load of crosses and headed goals with this lineup. I think he has probably had more balls passed to his feet (his preference) this season than ever but when he has come to shoot it's all gone wrong.

Not scoring before November must be unusual for him and so lets hope he is hungry for it now.

I don't want to sell him but if things are looking bleak in late December I wonder if the Board will think about selling him to say Everton for big bucks and replace with Slimani leaving cash for other strengthening. Slimani is no where near as clinical but playing regularly he would chip in with goals and has the work ethic that would please crowd and Manager. As I say, I would rather keep Benteke but these will be the sort of decisions made I am sure.
I'm pretty sure it will be 4-4-2 with Zaha up top. I really hope so anyway, because you are right about Wilf: he is not a good crosser. Townsend and Cabaye need to get in good crossing positions. He will head them in if a ball is stood up for him to attack. I've seen him score plenty like this. Also, if we continue to pick out Dann on the penalty spot from corners I fancy Benteke to convert the 2nd ball.

But Benteke is more than just good in the air. he can hold it up and he is good at shooting with both feet. Having Zaha on the pitch (which he didn't for 5 out of 6 games this season) will also open up some space for him. Good times ahead in this 4-4-2 I reckon. He's the final piece of the jigsaw.
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  #65  
Old 08-11-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windsor_Eagle View Post
Perhaps I'm being wildly optimistic but given our last 4 performances where we have played very well except in the final third, I feel like CB is the missing piece of the puzzle. If he can play his natural game in this system I feel like it could really click.
Agreed. I think in a 4-4-2 it will suit him, rather than in a 4-2-3-1 where he is isolated. Zaha and Benteke: the new Wright and Bright
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  #66  
Old 08-11-2017, 01:28 PM
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When we started playing 4-4-2 under Pardew with Wickham up top with him we looked very dangerous (less said about the defending the better). We also played a narrow 4-4-2 away at Chelsea last year, with Wilf up top with Benteke. I think with another forward up there making space he can flourish.

Speroni

TFM--------- Dann ---------- Sakho --------- Ward

Townsend ---------- Cabaye ------- Luka ---------- Schlupp

Zaha ----------------

-------------Benteke

This allows us to keep our current shape which has looked promising. I think Townsend will do a really good job at RM, works hard enough defensively for the role and will be more of a threat than RLC/McArthur.
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  #67  
Old 08-11-2017, 02:16 PM
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If nothing else, playing Benteke gives the opposition another forward to think about.

At the moment they can afford to double up on Wilf, making it much harder for him to break through. Likewise when Wilf was injured, Benteke had 2 (sometimes 3!) defenders swarming around him.

But play Benteke and Wilf together and the opposition has to spread their defenders out and then who knows, someone else like Andros might be able to find space as a consequence.
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  #68  
Old 08-11-2017, 03:52 PM
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Last season in the Premier League Benteke scored 15 goals in 13 games from 36 appearances.

Of the 13 games in which he scored we won seven, draw three and lost three (24 points)

We won five games without Benteke scoring, drew two and lost the rest (17 points).

Both Townsend and Zaha played in every game in which Benteke scored (apart from the 3-2 away win at Sunderland when Zaha was out).

I know it shouldn’t really be a surprise that if you’re main striker scores a goal you’re more likely to get points, but even so, if those three can stay fit, we have a chance.

Last edited by firesign; 08-11-2017 at 06:45 PM.
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  #69  
Old 08-11-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glaziers fan View Post
Agreed, which means Wilf (who works hard to cover the ground) NOT Loftus-Cheek (who is talented but lazy) close to him in Roy's 4-4-2.

4-4-2 with Zaha and we will see a different Benteke to the one we saw in 4-2-3-1 or under FdB. It will suit him more. Which is strange, because when we signed CB I thought he could operate as a lone striker. But he is not as effective there because he is not quite explosive enough on the ball to do it alone. He needs support, and the more we give him the better he will do.

Another way to give him more service would be to push the full backs higher up the pitch, and get them crossing. It remains to be seen if PVA or TFM can cross, but the others (apart from Pape Souare) definitely can't. Townsend can stand up a good ball. A ball in like Wilf's for Sakho's chance on Sunday would be ideal for Benteke. Quality crosses rather than hoofs upfield are what he needs. He can hold it up but it needs the midfielders to play it up to him below head height, not long balls up top from the defenders or the keeper.

This RLC lazy thing is bullshit.

He has been played out of position, not used to it, tracked back but was out of position a lot. He is a cm. and a very good one.

Last edited by Thefunkymonk; 08-11-2017 at 05:27 PM.
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  #70  
Old 08-11-2017, 05:16 PM
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It's quite something that having spent near on 30mil on left backs less than year ago, it's largely agreed that playing a right back there is our best option.
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  #71  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
Speroni
Ward - Dann - Sakho - Schlupp
X - Cabaye
Townsend---------X------------X
Benteke

Think 8 of our starting XI (and party for that reason) are at Beckenham over the international break. I expect they will be doing a lot of work on the shape and way to play. Given he may not be training till Wednesday possibly an argument for Reidewald to come in for Luka. So in training it is those area where you might expect RLC and certainly Zaha to come in that we are missing.

Would therefore hope we will be playing to Benteke's strengths in the next game with time and opportunity on our side.
There is no sane argument that replaces Luka with Ruedewald
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  #72  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:14 PM
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  #73  
Old 08-11-2017, 06:27 PM
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Don't think RLC is lazy but he does not work hard enough. Getting Benteke back is great news. Let's hope his scoring touch is back. Confidence is a fragile thing for strikers
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sydnsteve View Post
Don't think RLC is lazy but he does not work hard enough. Getting Benteke back is great news. Let's hope his scoring touch is back. Confidence is a fragile thing for strikers
I agree. RLC is a good player but seems to loose himself in the game at points then re-appear. And as for benteke he needs a goal or 2 to gain confidence
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  #75  
Old 08-11-2017, 07:10 PM
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  #76  
Old 08-11-2017, 08:40 PM
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Goes without saying we are better off with CB back.

He occupies defenders and has a proven scoring record.

He will leave space for others which again works to our advantage.

Just really annoyed that poor management decisions left us with only 1 fit striker.

Really poor

Hope it doesn't cost us our place in this league as it would be tough to get back

Everton game is beyond massive
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gilesy14 View Post
It's quite something that having spent near on 30mil on left backs less than year ago, it's largely agreed that playing a right back there is our best option.
Kelly again??
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maidstone Eagle View Post
Goes without saying we are better off with CB back.

He occupies defenders and has a proven scoring record.

He will leave space for others which again works to our advantage.

Just really annoyed that poor management decisions left us with only 1 fit striker.

Really poor

Hope it doesn't cost us our place in this league as it would be tough to get back

Everton game is beyond massive

Correct
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  #79  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefunkymonk View Post
This RLC lazy thing is bullshit.

He has been played out of position, not used to it, tracked back but was out of position a lot. He is a cm. and a very good one.
It really isn't. He worked hard at beginning of season. Has been coasting since his injury. Incredibly talented. Don't care if he has a bad game on the ball, but inexcusable to have a bad game off the ball. Especially for a midfielder, whether wide or in the centre.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrey Eagle View Post
I agree. RLC is a good player but seems to loose himself in the game at points then re-appear. And as for benteke he needs a goal or 2 to gain confidence
Play him as an attacking midfielder, rather than out wide.
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