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  #1  
Old 08-11-2017, 11:19 AM
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Why do we always kick off towards the Whitehorse End?

Seeing as a home form has been chronic for the last few years, a change maybe an idea.
For the vast majority of home games we play towards the Whitehorse End in the first half, probably as a result of us coming out and lining up in front of the Holmesdale, and very few teams these days switching ends after the toss. Not saying it's a direct cause , but how many times have we sat there and the like of Bournemouth,Burnley , Swansea,West Ham, Sunderland have taken an early lead and we have gone in at half time with all to do? Seeing as these bottom of the table scraps are mostly low scoring matches, and the emphasis most managers put on the importance of the first goal, shouldn't we be doing everything to try and get that crucial first goal, particularly in the first half?

The point in hand is that we are more likely to get a crucial decision in our favour playing towards the Holmesdale with the crowd playing their part in maybe "influencing" match officials. The game against West Ham is a good example, where a legitimate penalty appeal against Zaha is turned down at the Whitehorse End with the game at 0-0, whereas we get the decision in Townsend's favour at the Holmesdale End in the second half , but are already 0-2 down.

Another factor is the influence the away fans have over the match officials when we are kicking towards the Whitehorse, with the fans almost directly on the back of the linesman and inevitably close on 3,000 making a lot more noise than the family Whitehorse End.

I would suggest that next few home games, and obviously depending on the toss, we try to kick towards the Holmesdale End in the first half.
Just a thought , but desperate times need cunning plans.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:24 AM
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Seeing as a home form has been chronic for the last few years, a change maybe an idea.
No.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:25 AM
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Most clubs kick towards their most hostile end in the second half, Liverpool to the Kop, Newcastle the Gollowgate End, Man U the stretford End.

When we were battling for the point against West Ham, in those vital final minutes the players were playing towards their biggest support. Did that make a difference?

When away teams win the toss they usually change ends to disrupt the home teams usual pattern.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:45 AM
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Most clubs kick towards their most hostile end in the second half, Liverpool to the Kop, Newcastle the Gollowgate End, Man U the stretford End.

When we were battling for the point against West Ham, in those vital final minutes the players were playing towards their biggest support. Did that make a difference?

When away teams win the toss they usually change ends to disrupt the home teams usual pattern.
Most teams , in fact 99% of them , don't have our home form. If any team wants to" disrupt " our usual home form they are quite welcome.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:00 PM
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FMH57, good point made.

Do you have observations on a sample of matches where we HAVE won the 3 points?

Any stats for matches where the we attacked Whitehouse in 2nd half, i.e. opposition won the toss?
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:08 PM
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Most teams , in fact 99% of them , don't have our home form. If any team wants to" disrupt " our usual home form they are quite welcome.
4 pts in past 2 games!

W2 D1 L3 in past 6 games.

W3 D2 L5 in past 10 games.

W5 D2 L5 in past 12 games.

Ok none of it is spectacular form but all represents more than a point a game which keeps you up.

A couple of anomalies where we dipped below that level for 1 game but you have to go a long way back to find a time we drop below that mark for more than 1 match.

This is ok because our away form is very similar. You only need great home form to survive if you cannot win away like Burnley last year.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:10 PM
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FMH57, good point made.

Do you have observations on a sample of matches where we HAVE won the 3 points?

Any stats for matches where the we attacked Whitehouse in 2nd half, i.e. opposition won the toss?
We must have a 100% toss rate cos i think we have kicked towards the Holmesdale 2nd half in every game this season.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:11 PM
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I've always felt this is another added factor which can give an advantage. We've done it for years, and I tend to remember playing Millwall at home in which we lost 1-0 in which Jackett insisted on winning the toss and switching halves purely for the reason mentioned in this thread. It's a psychological factor in my eyes, when you're chasing for a goal or from an opposition view you're holding onto a lead and you have more hostile voices in behind you it'll of course have some impact.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:20 PM
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Why did we water our own half (holmesdale end) before the west ham game?

Understand of course why that half was watered after half time

All four goals that end
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:23 PM
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Sevilla play towards the biris (the loud stand) in the first half. I'm not sure if this is the same for other Spanish teams. Also in Spain there is hardly any away support so kicking off towards the away fans isn't a consideration.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:34 PM
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Games tend to 'open up' more in the second half as players tire, then attacking the most passionate supporters end must have an added advantage. I say leave this as they are.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:49 PM
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Why did we water our own half (holmesdale end) before the west ham game?

Understand of course why that half was watered after half time

All four goals that end
Think we water both halves but do them separately.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:57 PM
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We must have a 100% toss rate cos i think we have kicked towards the Holmesdale 2nd half in every game this season.
100% is harsh on Wilf, but the rest have sure played like a bunch of tossers.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:26 PM
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Seeing as a home form has been chronic for the last few years, a change maybe an idea.
For the vast majority of home games we play towards the Whitehorse End in the first half, probably as a result of us coming out and lining up in front of the Holmesdale, and very few teams these days switching ends after the toss. Not saying it's a direct cause , but how many times have we sat there and the like of Bournemouth,Burnley , Swansea,West Ham, Sunderland have taken an early lead and we have gone in at half time with all to do? Seeing as these bottom of the table scraps are mostly low scoring matches, and the emphasis most managers put on the importance of the first goal, shouldn't we be doing everything to try and get that crucial first goal, particularly in the first half?

The point in hand is that we are more likely to get a crucial decision in our favour playing towards the Holmesdale with the crowd playing their part in maybe "influencing" match officials. The game against West Ham is a good example, where a legitimate penalty appeal against Zaha is turned down at the Whitehorse End with the game at 0-0, whereas we get the decision in Townsend's favour at the Holmesdale End in the second half , but are already 0-2 down.

Another factor is the influence the away fans have over the match officials when we are kicking towards the Whitehorse, with the fans almost directly on the back of the linesman and inevitably close on 3,000 making a lot more noise than the family Whitehorse End.

I would suggest that next few home games, and obviously depending on the toss, we try to kick towards the Holmesdale End in the first half.
Just a thought , but desperate times need cunning plans.
Another person looking for any reason other than football matters why we have poor home form. No it isnt because the HF have a drum, or that a banger went off or that that the lights flash. This is just overthinking, not a cunning plan, the more the management look to superstitions rather than football matters the more the poor form would continue, we need to accept responsibility that we just are not very good.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:27 PM
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I suppose it all depends which goal you consider to be the most important, the first goal or the last goal. It just seem these days , particularly when you are playing relegation rivals, that first goal seems to be the most important and this is what we are consistently told by managers. Its seems to be a pretty bad pattern we are in where when we are favourites for a game like Huddersfield, Swansea, West Ham, Southampton this season invariably a groan has gone around the ground as a result of an early away goal at the Holmesdale end. Similar to Swansea and Burnley earlier in the year. It would be nice for a change for us to get that early goal.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:31 PM
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Another person looking for any reason other than football matters why we have poor home form. No it isnt because the HF have a drum, or that a banger went off or that that the lights flash. This is just overthinking, not a cunning plan, the more the management look to superstitions rather than football matters the more the poor form would continue, we need to accept responsibility that we just are not very good.
Ah, we'll just give up then. Perhaps we should have done that four seasons ago and saved us all a lot of hassle.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:19 PM
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I suppose it all depends which goal you consider to be the most important, the first goal or the last goal. It just seem these days , particularly when you are playing relegation rivals, that first goal seems to be the most important and this is what we are consistently told by managers. Its seems to be a pretty bad pattern we are in where when we are favourites for a game like Huddersfield, Swansea, West Ham, Southampton this season invariably a groan has gone around the ground as a result of an early away goal at the Holmesdale end. Similar to Swansea and Burnley earlier in the year. It would be nice for a change for us to get that early goal.
a fair point

it wouldn't do any harm to try it for one game
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:22 PM
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Think we water both halves but do them separately.
I didn't see both halves watered before the westham game and in several other games have only seen the holmesdale end half watered

I always thought it was to make that end of the pitch more slippery which is worse overall for defenders than attackers
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:29 PM
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Ah, we'll just give up then. Perhaps we should have done that four seasons ago and saved us all a lot of hassle.
Yes you should give up making up theories as to why the team are failing as we have not impact on the performance on the team, the only thing we can do is be vocal at games to either support or deride, that's it.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:38 PM
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Under Paul Hart didn't we change to kicking to Whitehorse second half? Anyway our form has been so bad ends have made little difference although we are on an epic run of 2 home games undefeated. It must be a couple of years since that last happened
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