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  #81  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:51 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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So one part of government prints money, another part spends it and the first part cancels the debt. So the money has been spent but isn't on any balance sheet anywhere. Where has it gone? Sounds like off balance sheet financing that would have made Lehmann brothers proud. Why can't the government via the public works loan board just issue infrastructure bonds that pay a decent return that will allow fully funded pensions schemes in the private sector and councils to achieve a return that will help workers get decent pensions? There is plenty of demand right now. Achieves the same without spooking the markets.
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  #82  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:51 PM
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And finally - Bank of England to hand over gilts interest payments to slash national debt
Move will cut national debt in short term and reduce interest payments on money government has borrowed over the years

Big cash balances amassed by the Bank of England as a result of its electronic money-creation programme will be used to pay down the national debt by £35bn over the next 18 months, the Treasury has said.

George Osborne wants Threadneedle Street to hand over the interest payments it has received on the gilts bought since the start of the asset-purchase scheme in early 2009.

The chancellor said it was economically inefficient for the Treasury to have to borrow money to pay the coupons (interest payments) on the £375bn of gilts accumulated by the Bank since it adopted the strategy of trying to boost the economy through a huge expansion of the money supply. To view the link you have to Register or Login
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  #83  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:52 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
We aren't paying for QE that is free money. No borrowing and interest payments are due on it. In fact its saved the government interest payments on the bonds the Bank purchased.

Austerity is politically driven - with the myth that Labour over spent. And it is being used to restructure public services and the welfare state. With the end result people have less money, poor quality public services and then die.
Seriously this has been discussed on here before your magic free money comes at a cost. Take the extreme it might help why not print loads and loads of free money give everyone a million pounds, fund every project going it costs nothing QE its free money
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  #84  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
So one part of government prints money, another part spends it and the first part cancels the debt. So the money has been spent but isn't on any balance sheet anywhere. Where has it gone? Sounds like off balance sheet financing that would have made Lehmann brothers proud. Why can't the government via the public works loan board just issue infrastructure bonds that pay a decent return that will allow fully funded pensions schemes in the private sector and councils to achieve a return that will help workers get decent pensions? There is plenty of demand right now. Achieves the same without spooking the markets.
Its on the BoE balance sheet - why pay interest when there is no need to?

Last edited by cdm61; 17-11-2017 at 03:55 PM.
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  #85  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:53 PM
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Seriously this has been discussed on here before your magic free money comes at a cost.
You keep making this assertion without qualifying or quantifying what these costs are? When you do that you might make a case.
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  #86  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:54 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
Its on the BoE balance sheet
OK good now a balance sheet balances ..... what is the negative balance to it ?
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  #87  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:56 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
You keep making this assertion without qualifying or quantifying what these costs are? When you do that you might make a case.
OK avoid the question.....why not have massive QE its only on the balance sheet .......
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  #88  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
OK good now a balance sheet balances ..... what is the negative balance to it ?
The sums are the same - it has issued £500bn in cash for which it holds £500bn of bonds.
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  #89  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
While "fake news" is bad wherever it came from, at the same time it is obvious that austerity has, and is, killing lots of people.

From cuts to the NHS, to social services, to mental health services to policies like Universal Credit. I find it strange that someone would focus on whether the exact amount of people killed is in question, but not comment so much on the tragedy of austerity, and seem more angry about the "fake news" than the deaths.

Also to then lazily call Corbyn extreme, when actually he's a fairly bog standard left social democrat, and compare those policies as being as bad as vicious tory austerity. Odd.
What about the 'fake news' in your post that there have been auserity cuts to NHS and Mental Health Services? Its simply not the case.

At 2017/18 prices, in real terms, nhs funding has increased every year since 2010, from £112bn in 2010 to £123.8bn this year. (To view the link you have to Register or Login)

The problem the NHS has is that demand in not static and only goes up, and every year advances in surgery and pharmaceuticals put additional pressure on the system. Many of the 'savings' made in the NHS have had little to no impact on front line care. However some have and i see many where i am sceptical that the change will result in reduced costs. Have seen many 'savings programmes' that have failed spectacularly to get the intended benefit. However the status quo is really not an option and throwing money at it is not a long term solution.
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  #90  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:02 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
The sums are the same - it has issued £500bn in cash for which it holds £500bn of bonds.
Except the bond is a debt....you create the money and a debt at the same time....
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  #91  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:08 PM
cdm61 cdm61 is offline
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Except the bond is a debt....you create the money and a debt at the same time....
But the bond has been created by the proposed National Investment Bank - in the same way the BoE purchased government and corporate bonds through its QE programme
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  #92  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
We aren't paying for QE that is free money. No borrowing and interest payments are due on it. In fact its saved the government interest payments on the bonds the Bank purchased.

Austerity is politically driven - with the myth that Labour over spent. And it is being used to restructure public services and the welfare state. With the end result people have less money, poor quality public services and then die.
You are technically correct to say that QE is 'free' (money) but it's not without impact or 'cost' in the wider sense is it? i.e. - otherwise we would just pay off the National Debt and add a bit more to pay off the EU and maybe a little extra in everyone's wages next month to lift the mood.
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  #93  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:11 PM
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oh pur- lease. May be they should do a study of the years 1976 - 9 when unemployment doubled, homes were lit by candled and rubbish piled up in the streets, oh and NHS prters went on strike too. How desperate can people get.
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  #94  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:12 PM
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You are technically correct to say that QE is 'free' (money) but it's not without impact or 'cost' in the wider sense is it? i.e. - otherwise we would just pay off the National Debt and add a bit more to pay off the EU and maybe a little extra in everyone's wages next month to lift the mood.
In what way would paying down the national debt have impact? All the interest payments on the QE programme have been made to the Treasury and paid down national debt.

Last edited by cdm61; 17-11-2017 at 04:14 PM.
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  #95  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GreatGonzo View Post
What about the 'fake news' in your post that there have been auserity cuts to NHS and Mental Health Services? Its simply not the case.

At 2017/18 prices, in real terms, nhs funding has increased every year since 2010, from £112bn in 2010 to £123.8bn this year. (To view the link you have to Register or Login)

The problem the NHS has is that demand in not static and only goes up, and every year advances in surgery and pharmaceuticals put additional pressure on the system. Many of the 'savings' made in the NHS have had little to no impact on front line care. However some have and i see many where i am sceptical that the change will result in reduced costs. Have seen many 'savings programmes' that have failed spectacularly to get the intended benefit. However the status quo is really not an option and throwing money at it is not a long term solution.
This is also fake news spin by you.

That's about a 10% increase in real spending. Given the population has not only increased by 6% in the same time period, and also that the population has aged, this is not a real increase at all.

Indeed as this article says:

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The NHS is mired in its “tightest funding period” for 60 years, economic experts warned today.
And making the point I did above:

Quote:
“Previous work we looked at suggests that once you ‘age adjust’, NHS spending per capita will be no more than or perhaps even a bit less in 2020 than it was in 2010.
There is no throwing money at anything. Well other than the rich, who have their magic money tree. It's called workers, who they screw over more and more as GDP shifts ever more from wages to profit.

As for mental health:

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  #96  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:20 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
But the bond has been created by the proposed National Investment Bank - in the same way the BoE purchased government and corporate bonds through its QE programme
Lets keep going how does the national debt affect the UK......why dont we just create money and increase the debt ?
There is a downsize sooner or latter you are going to have to admit your wrong.....
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Old 17-11-2017, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharkba1t View Post
Or, amazingly , you could.
Wrong about what?

You being wrong?

I didn't say you were, only that it was another possibility that should not and can't be discounted on a whim.
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  #98  
Old 17-11-2017, 04:22 PM
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Now it’s official: the less you have, the more austerity will take from you To view the link you have to Register or Login

The government’s own figures have proved what has been obvious since 2010: minorities, women and disabled people are the ones being hit the hardest

Today the Equality and Human Rights Commission released a major report calculating the impact austerity is having on Britain – painstakingly calculating the impact that changes to all tax, social security and public spending since 2010 will have on each of us by 2022.

Black households (as the report puts it) will lose 5% of income – more than double the loss for white households. The forecast is gross inequality. While the poorest are set to lose nearly 10% of their incomes, the richest will lose barely 1%.
Break that down and the picture is staggering – not simply because of how much income is going to be pulled away, but who exactly it will be done to.

Families with a disabled child will be among the worst affected, with some taking a £5,500 reduction in income. Black households (as the report puts it) will lose 5% of income (more than double the loss for white households), while women will suffer a £940 annual loss (more than double the loss for men).

Anyone who has fallen ill with cancer only to be found “fit for work”, or skipped meals after having their child benefit frozen, won’t need any more proof that it’s them, rather than the wealthy and healthy, who have been suffering. The EHRC research is undeniable evidence of just how unequally the cuts have fallen across society.

From George Osborne’s “We’re all in it together” to Theresa May’s concern for the “just about managing”, since austerity measures were first ushered in, the Conservatives have continually peddled the idea the cuts are being shared fairly. What’s more, they have claimed that, owing to the complexity of working out the impact of multiple policies at once, even if there were a chance some groups would be worse hit, there is no real way of finding out.

The equalities watchdog report confirms once and for all that both of these claims have always been entirely false. As the chair of the commission, David Isaac, says: “We have encouraged the government to carry out this work for some time, but sadly they’ve refused. We have shown that it is possible.”
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Old 17-11-2017, 04:24 PM
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This is also fake news spin by you.

That's about a 10% increase in real spending. Given the population has not only increased by 6% in the same time period, and also that the population has aged, this is not a real increase at all.

Indeed as this article says:

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And making the point I did above:




There is no throwing money at anything. Well other than the rich, who have their magic money tree. It's called workers, who they screw over more and more as GDP shifts ever more from wages to profit.

As for mental health:

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So youd rather those workers were unemployed so the rich couldnt make money out of them
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Old 17-11-2017, 04:24 PM
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Clearly the 120,000 deaths are the cause of austerity.
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