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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: MOM
Hennessey 16 5.90%
Schlupp 12 4.43%
Sakho 43 15.87%
Tomkins 67 24.72%
Ward 53 19.56%
Townsend 1 0.37%
Milivojevic 38 14.02%
Cabaye 14 5.17%
RLC 10 3.69%
Zaha 11 4.06%
Benteke 3 1.11%
McArthur 3 1.11%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 29-11-2017, 09:21 AM
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First 25 minutes we dominated - really thought there was only going to be one team in it. That was while Hennessey was distributing the ball from the back well, and we kept the ball on the floor.

But then they gradually came into the game - our players stopped moving in front of the ball, and each move would eventually result in a hopeful lofted ball which 90% of the time broke the move down. Eventually that led to Hennessey having to route 1 the ball each time he got it.

Benteke would win the odd flick on, but aside from a couple of times there was nobody there and we gave the ball up. It didn't help that he was quite static the rest of the time.

I've not seen anything from Wilf playing in the middle to inspire me yet - it doesn't look like he knows how to find gaps he likes to exploit in the middle - we were more dangerous again later when he and RLC swapped.

I feel like we'd have been better starting McArthur over Benteke (or possibly RLC), and dominating the midfield. With Townsend/Zaha/RLC someone would have wriggled through eventually.

Still, it's a point and a clean sheet on the road, so something to build upon.
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  #82  
Old 29-11-2017, 09:30 AM
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A point away in a midweek game, stupidly hyped up by all and sundry, and apparently no injuries, is a result I guess. More worried about the thugs at West Brom who will no doubt try to rough up our players. Can (e.g.) Tomkins and RL-C play two games a week without "knocks" ? Maybe why RH subbed Cabaye to keep him fresh.
Pardew is quite capable of instructing McClean to kick Wilf up in the air in the first few minutes, has any player got a less suitable name ? There is nothing "clean" about McClean.
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  #83  
Old 29-11-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Great Lombardi View Post
Hennessey was very poor last night. Fails to command his box, despite his large frame, and visibly unnerved our back four. Brighton looked like they would score from pretty much every corner.

Even one of his saves saw him push the ball out into a dangerous area in the middle of the box, straight to Stephens.
Absolute bollocks!!!!
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  #84  
Old 29-11-2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Cpfcbob View Post
I will say it again for about the 500 time. WE NEED TO START SHOOTING FROM OUTSIDE THE BOX.

For 18 months we've been trying to walk the ball into the net, no other club does this. We have to mix it up shot wise, and take many more shots at goal from further out. The ball comes to you at twenty yards, BANG IT, on target preferable. It will bring a few goals, not many but the main thing is it will drive our confidence up and get us firing properly again.
Reiterate this again and again and again, on social media and so on and eventually they will get the message.
Haha

Yesterday I thought we need to stop shooting pointlessly outside the box!

Luka, benteke, Jimmy and Ruben all had long range efforts when we really had better options available.

Generally I agree with you, when we’ve had little on a shot would have been better in the past but when we did shoot yesterday we had players making good runs
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  #85  
Old 29-11-2017, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Cpfcbob View Post
I will say it again for about the 500 time. WE NEED TO START SHOOTING FROM OUTSIDE THE BOX.

For 18 months we've been trying to walk the ball into the net, no other club does this. We have to mix it up shot wise, and take many more shots at goal from further out. The ball comes to you at twenty yards, BANG IT, on target preferable. It will bring a few goals, not many but the main thing is it will drive our confidence up and get us firing properly again.
Reiterate this again and again and again, on social media and so on and eventually they will get the message.
Ward and Schlupp have both shot outside of the box, and hit row Z. Tomkins ballooned it over last night. Luka had a go vs Stoke and Cabaye in a few games.

When we do pull the trigger outside the box the result is largely dreadful. Roy will know we’re unlikely to score this way.
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  #86  
Old 29-11-2017, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bolabolabola View Post
Ward and Schlupp have both shot outside of the box, and hit row Z. Tomkins ballooned it over last night. Luka had a go vs Stoke and Cabaye in a few games.

When we do pull the trigger outside the box the result is largely dreadful. Roy will know we’re unlikely to score this way.
I agree with the original post. We don’t expect the players to be peppering the goal from 30 yards out every time they receive the ball, but when an opportunity presents itself and there’s not a better option, have a pop instead of passing sideways or backwards perhaps. If we don’t have players that can strike a ball cleanly from distance, perhaps they should practice more!
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  #87  
Old 29-11-2017, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolabolabola View Post
Ward and Schlupp have both shot outside of the box, and hit row Z. Tomkins ballooned it over last night. Luka had a go vs Stoke and Cabaye in a few games.

When we do pull the trigger outside the box the result is largely dreadful. Roy will know we’re unlikely to score this way.
Reminds me of what Bolasie did most of the time. Why we can't get a single free kick on Bentekes head is of more concern
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  #88  
Old 29-11-2017, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cheese toastie View Post
I know Roy is wedded to his 442 and you have to respect the improvements we've made under him, but I thought we were crying out to go 433 today with Wilf and Townsend as proper wingers. Wilf is wasted up front and RLC should be playing in the middle.

That said, we did look pretty solid and it's a decent point. Glad not to lose to that lot and get an away point on the board. Onwards and upwards.
This is spot on in my view. Wilf is just not suited to playing in a traditional front 2. Its worked to an extent playing away from home when he and Andros don't match up against the centre halves, but not with Benteke. Whenever he got the ball wide last night and attacked the defenders, they looked vulnerable. Equally, RLC is not a wide player in a 4-4-2.
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  #89  
Old 29-11-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Owngoal View Post
Reminds me of what Bolasie did most of the time. Why we can't get a single free kick on Bentekes head is of more concern
On current form he'd probably duck. Although maybe he's worried now about the possible connection between heading and dementia.
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  #90  
Old 29-11-2017, 10:10 AM
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Hennessey 6 Decent on the whole
Ward 7 Playing well at moment - defensively
Tomkins 6 Ok
Sakho 6 Ok but hewill cost us a game soon with a casual pass
Schlupp 6 Ok but seems always to play within himself
Luka 6 Strong in tackle
Cabaye 6 Looked off the pace and he is so poor at set pieces
RLC 5 Need more from him , seems reluctant to track back
Townsend 6 Effort but no end product
Zaha 6 Needs to be out wide
Benteke 5 No service but he should go looking for ball occasionally - so static


A draw is ok normally but thats 3 points against Brighton West Ham & Everton - these are not results that will keep us up . RLC to play central and Zaha wide . We need to buy a forward with some pace and ability very early Jan ( who I have no idea )
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  #91  
Old 29-11-2017, 10:15 AM
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Poor game. Pleased with the clean sheet and point. Credit to the defence and Luca who all had good games. Townsend had a shocker - looked short of confidence. I would have bought on Sako who at least looks to get a shot off. Needed to get Wilf on their full backs. Agree that RLC should have been playing behind Benteke.
Was impressed with Dunk. Excellent player. Could see him ending up at Liverpool or the Arse.
As for the pyros / smoke bombs - they are a bit shit. I prefer my 300 shot "Big Cheese" firework I buy every NYE for about 50 quid. Now that's a beast!! Message to who ever let them off is that you look like a bunch of twats!

Last edited by Banger; 29-11-2017 at 06:24 PM.
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  #92  
Old 29-11-2017, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by glaziers fan View Post
I think Luka Milivojevic should be tried on set-pieces. They can't be any worse.
yes he should be
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  #93  
Old 29-11-2017, 10:21 AM
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Yes, how many times must others fail to clear the first man or hit a crap free kick into the middle of the goal
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  #94  
Old 29-11-2017, 10:47 AM
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It was what it was. First 30 mins or so I thought we were clearly the better side. Benteke looked excellent literally wining everything. Zaha could Hans had two penalties for shoves in the area, the kind that are given most weeks and from a Brighton perspective would have been pointless. Happily the ref was consistent in this regard as he could easily have given one against us for Sakho in injury time.

After that nerves set in. Brighton grew into the game and got a good chance. This is where I think we threw it away a little. For the first 30 mins we were going long to benteke with wilf on hand to pick up the knock on.. Brighton has no answer. Benteke was winning everything... we stopped! At this point we started almost frank like ******* around at the back. Sakho must have had more of the ball than anyone and I don’t know why. We were dangerous and we just stopped doing it. Passing around the back, letting Brighton get two on benteke and pick up wilf we became toothless. Of course passing around the back increases the risk of us doing something stupid with the ball ans putting pressure on ourselves and of course we didn’t disappoint. Sakho (again) Luka (again) Tomkins, schlupp all guilty of silly mistakes in dangerous areas that could have cost us.

Second half it was just scrappy. We looked shaken at all the corners but coped just about without giving up clear cut chances. We wasted most of our set pieces again.

The ref didn’t help. He let the game flow, which I usually really appreciate. However, he didn’t really punish the cynical stuff. The trips, the shoves etc that are automatic yellows. On another day Bruno, knockheart, proper, izequerdo, Dunk, And duffy all would have got two yellows because it was constant. Obviously they probably wouldn’t as they would have stopped but he let it go and so for the last hour every time we looked to break wilf, Townsend, cabaye, benteke, ward all tripped, shoved, checked etc. Yes we got a free kick we could waste but no yellows so it continued. We could have had two penalties and they one at the death. Now he was consistent, so not a big moan. Forget the penalties... it was the cynical stuff that really broke the flow of the game. Given where he set the bar he was however consistent and within that he didn’t really make any glaring mistakes so far from the worst ref we’ve had.

Hennessy 8 - one flap but otherwise a good solid display. He flapped the once and the commentator seemed obsessed with saying the same thing about him. Rest of the time he was good. Sticky gloves on in the first half too, which was good to see. Close to him yes, but hard shots and he held them well. Many keepers would have pushed them back into the danger zone but he kept the ball.

Ward 8 - one misunderstanding with wilf up front otherwise the only defender not to put a foot wrong. Dealt with everything thrown at him and once again covered the middle mopping up when required.

Tomkins 6 - showed why I can’t decide between him and Dann. They both have a mistake in them and after the motm display against stoke he was a little more sloppy today. Largely solid but twice in the first half at fault that led to Brighton’s best two chances. Free header for dunk as he got on his heels and gave him a run and he didn’t close down izequerdo allowing him an unchallenged shot. As I say otherwise decent and read the game very well but prone to a ‘moment’

Sakho 6 - again ******* around at the back and putting undue pressure on us. Excellent defensively as ever but ****... stop pissing around. Several times Tomkins was telling him to hit it forward and yet he passes Tomkins a ball he doesn’t want. Not sure if he was told to but the long ball was causing Brighton all sorts of problems... Sakho seemed to stop that. Lot and lost of pointless passing that slowed down our break. Good defending

Schlupp 6 - for me our best left back at the moment. Bit over confident on his pace though. Shows them space to run into and then doesn’t catch them and block the cross! Otherwise decent

Luka 6 - is he Jedi? As ever this season poor in posession at times with lose passes and caught on the ball. Good at breaking up play. Seems to be lacking sharpness or something because he’s better on the ball than that

Cabaye 6 - usual self first half, faded badly. Probably rightly subbed. Hopefully he’s not carrying a knock for wba

Ruben - 6 better in the middle but a threat at times. Good strength and hard to get off the ball in the final third. Left ward exposed a lot defensively. Several times trotted back leaving ward 2 on 1.

Townsend - 6 quiet game for him. Lots of running but not really in the game for most of it. Looked at his best early on, on the left getting a couple of decent crosses in early

Zaha - 7 didn’t quite come off for him today. Subject to lots and lots of cynical fouls. Technically should have had 2 penalties when shoved over but otherwise never quite in his stride. Should have scored the follow up to benteke’s shot.

Benteke - 7 excellent for the first 30 mins. Won everything in the air and generally directed close to wilf. Inexplicably we stopped the direct balls because Brighton couldn’t cope. They started getting two on him when we pissed around at the back for a while giving them time to mark up and then went direct. Faded but good to have him back. Again reluctant to shoot. Looks for the extra touch and the pass and looks every bit a player lacking confidence. His first goal is desperately needed

Jimmy - 6 provided the energy we lacked

Overall ok. I’d take a draw and a clean sheet. Point away from home and we didn’t lose to Brighton. We could have though but we could have won too. Probably the fair result. I think we wasted aerial dominance ******* around at the back before hitting it. Sometimes direct is best and today was that.

Some heavy legs towards the end as you’d expect. Need to cut out the sillynees, improve set piece delivery because it’s all back to first man stuff and get back to quick breaks instead of slowing it downs with short passes at the back when we have wilf and benteke in space.

Probably wardy for motm. Only defender not to make a silly mistake and covering the middle well when required. Coped well getting left out numbered a few times too. Wayne a close second after a much improved performance
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  #95  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:03 PM
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Watching that was hard work for several reasons. We desperately needed something from this match which made it tense, it was littered with mistakes and there were periods of continued pressure and it was of course the 'weed. It reminded me of a gruelling Championship game with the emphasis on battling rather than skill/composure. I wonder if the hype around this 'rivals' thing got into the players a little too much. An away point and a clean sheet are both firsts for us this season and so I should feel happier than I do but there is this nagging feeling that the 3 points were there for the taking and again we failed to take chances.

Hennessey - 7 - posted elsewhere. This was one of his better games and despite a nervy flap at a corner he was solid and made a couple of sharp interventions. Probably carrying more pressure than most down there and came out well so credit where due.

Ward - 7 - I thought he handled both wingers well last night which wasn't easy. Some odd positioning at times when he was found 'outside the winger' but dealt with it well each time.

Tomkins - 7 - another very solid performance and probably got as close as any of our strikers to scoring at the end when he rattled the stanchion (I.e. Miles away) Looking good right now.

Sakho - 6 - it's difficult to explain how such an effective player can scare me to death whenever he gets the ball at his feet. He looks like a train wreck and invites pressure. He has this habit of inviting the striker onto him and leaving it very later to pass it to the keeper who then has a player bearing down on him. Worse still is when he steps into the middle and plays a stinker p, straight to the opposition, after our midfield have rushed forward. Doh! If it was based on my BP it would be a 4.

Schlupp - 7 - a quiet but effective match from Jeff. Possibly the candidate for least mistakes ? His restrained disciplined game is working for him/us and he deserves the spot for now. Knockaert was never a problem for him.

Loftus-Cheek - 6 - like most a mix of good and sloppy. His ability to retain the ball, turn and drive forward opens things up but the movement in front of him will frankly pants. Needs to find a way to force himself into games.

Cabaye - 6 - despite only an extended cameo he had more touches than most. FKs were not as good as we needed. Looked frustrated by the lack of passing options and TBH can't blame him.

Luka - 5.5 - his ball winning and partnership with Cabaye are real plus points but for the last man in midfield his frequent misplaced passes and fumbles are close to being a liability. He saved a few of his own disasters with the tip of his toe but too often walking a tightrope for me lately. Has to do better than this.

Townsend - 6 - another huge shift but not enough quality. One great cross into the box that Benteke watched but little else. Did the defensive shift OK.

Benteke - 6.5 - his movement in the box mystifies me. He rarely moves to the ball, seems to go far post or drop off when he should be hitting the near post and vice versa. Odd. Outside the box I thought he had a far better game. Won the ball, competed and took better pressing positions. Needs to score as you can see it in his face now.

Zaha - 6 - this might be over generous TBH but he did make a couple of runs and was always trying. He has almost no idea of how to capitalise on Benteke's flicks. His movement was poor and so when midfield look up he is always marked and static. Part of this is because he likes to have the ball and let him beat the man but that's fine out wide but.... I suspect that more than most the adrenaline got to him when he needed to think clearly and remain composed. Probably had our best chance but didn't look likely to score again by point. I understand the clamour after this for him to go out wide but he needs to handle this stuff because we need even our wingers to get into these spaces. He is our hero and we expect too much from him but last night I don't think he fell well short of what he can do. He was pushed over twice and unlucky not to get a pen on one of them. Handled that well I thought. No sign of a sulk.

Macca - 6.5 - solid performance.

This match underlines the dilemmas that Roy faces I think. It's a bit like squeezing a soft balloon the air just moves to a different area.

Isolating Benteke on his own doesn't suit him. He needs someone to play off and with up there. Wilf has the ability to open up defences and so pushing him into more central areas makes a lot of sense and and it looks as if he can score more often there. But Wilf shows little to no idea how to pick up the ball from Benteke's flicks and he isn't making the runs into spaces that would get him the ball. So too often the ball just comes straight back despite Benteke winning it. I don't think that it's the wrong idea but I am not sure we have the time for Wilf to relearn how to do this and frankly, who is there to coach him?

So pushing him out wide but encouraging him to get into the box (as Pardew was doing) is tempting but TBH he hasn't cracked that before either, so no obviously good options there. It's tempting to push Ruben into that space or perhaps just behind him but although he has played there before he is really a midfield player. It is for me the better option still and the one I would plump for personally. BUT then Roy has a problem because he sets the midfield and defence out to be narrow and compact with the 2 wide men stepping in. So neither 'winger' would be playing as a winger as such, more like a wide right and left midfielder. I would argue that Andros is a better wingback than he is a wide midfielder and it's not Wilf's strength either.

So...... I just think Roy is stuck with making do with this. Normally a Manager would stick one winger and one midfielder in I think but leaving out Andros or Wilf right now is tricky.

The other problem I think he has is Luka who is like the curate's egg. His ball winning 'good' is great but his bad possession/passing is woeful recently and I actually think Roy might look for a replacement in the winter which isn't something I expected at the start of the season.

If Cabaye or Wilf gets injured then I think we quickly look very ordinary if not poor.
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  #96  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by GB2506 View Post
Wilf is completely wasted down the middle. Hodgson didnt once put him out wide and try and take on Bruno.
The one time he did take on Bruno, Bruno wiped him out and somehow wasn't booked for it.
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  #97  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Isle of Wight View Post
Why is it that everyone seems to say RLC in the middle with Wilf on the wing but Woy doesn't play them like that. Has anyone heard a reason ?
Another pratt saying Woy, do really think it's funny?
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  #98  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:32 PM
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Voted Ward MotM, feels like he always steps it up in these big games and he was really solid last night.

Our set-pieces are so frustrating. Kind of stopped getting excited when we get a corner now as we never do anything with it.
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Old 29-11-2017, 12:52 PM
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The one time he did take on Bruno, Bruno wiped him out and somehow wasn't booked for it.
Even Roy could not hide his shock at that one. Appalling officials
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Old 29-11-2017, 12:55 PM
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Worst part was when Wilf was shoved out of play and the ref gave a free kick against him. Absolute fvcking joke

That was an absolute joke. Man handled off the pitch.
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