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  #41  
Old 30-12-2017, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
Swindlehurst v Benteke?
... and Elwiss over Benteke every time...what a player he could have been for us...
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  #42  
Old 30-12-2017, 09:52 PM
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If team of 80s best 11 played today's best 11 I would go with 80s team just better team together not as many individuals that you don't know what your get at there best clean sheets were common but today's squad would be stronger sansom like wilf will be palace fans never forget watching.
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  #43  
Old 30-12-2017, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
I'm not sure I can agree with that. The team of the 80s finished 13th then half of them buggered off in the summer of 1980, although admittedly this had a lot to do with Bloye shafting us.

I'd agree we have had a few hangers on but you can't stay in this division for 5 seasons just going through the motions, and it was something the 80s team didn't even get close to achieving. The late 70s was clearly a really exciting time to be a Palace fan and the team was clearly one of the best we've ever had but it is a bit too easy to look back at that time with misty eyes blurring what really happened.
By the summer of 1980 only Burridge, Sansom, Kember and Swindlehurst had left. By the summer of 81 we had been relegated, but of the players on your list only Fenwick went to QPR but we were broke. The only reason the team broke up was Bloye more or less bankrupting the club.
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  #44  
Old 30-12-2017, 10:18 PM
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The 1980/81 season was probably the most depressing season for me personally watching Palace. As the Whitehorse Lane end was being developed that year, and my mate and I had high expectations for the season we got our first ever season tickets in the AW.

It all went so wrong, and my mate moved out of the area about mid-season, leaving me to suffer alone. Players I loved leaving and home wins nonexistent, and the inevitable relegation by seasons end, and the Whitehorse Lane end just a mud pit of non construction.

At the start of the 81/82 season we were in the Second Division, and by September I was off to The US never to return. My last game was rather ironically away to QPR. A 1-0 loss on the plastic pitch with TV in charge of QPR and half their team with Palace connections. My only consultation now is that I believe it got even worse after I left thanks to Alan Mullery! I just remember being so angry at Raymond Bloye for what he was doing to the club (or was it Ron Noades by then?).
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  #45  
Old 30-12-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
Excuse me but I always post this when a discussion on the team of the 80’s comes up, but it’s a truely remarkable stat:

Their ages at the start of our promotion winning season in 78/79:

Burridge 26
Hinshelwood 22
Sansom 19
Gilbert 18
Cannon 24
Murphy 18
Nicholas 18
Kember 29
Walsh 19
Swindelhurst 22
Hilaire 18
Fenwick 18
That is amazing. No wonder we got that tag, could've been something so special.
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  #46  
Old 30-12-2017, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
The 1980/81 season was probably the most depressing season for me personally watching Palace. As the Whitehorse Lane end was being developed that year, and my mate and I had high expectations for the season we got our first ever season tickets in the AW.

It all went so wrong, and my mate moved out of the area about mid-season, leaving me to suffer alone. Players I loved leaving and home wins nonexistent, and the inevitable relegation by seasons end, and the Whitehorse Lane end just a mud pit of non construction.

At the start of the 81/82 season we were in the Second Division, and by September I was off to The US never to return. My last game was rather ironically away to QPR. A 1-0 loss on the plastic pitch with TV in charge of QPR and half their team with Palace connections. My only consultation now is that I believe it got even worse after I left thanks to Alan Mullery! I just remember being so angry at Raymond Bloye for what he was doing to the club (or was it Ron Noades by then?).
I thought Bloye had already sold the Whitehorse end to Sainsburys by then? Did Bloye ever explain what was happening at the time?
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  #47  
Old 30-12-2017, 11:18 PM
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Excellent posting from satellite agree and concur in all you say.
Why the hell we courted Howard Kendall to venners annoyance and subsequent sabotage is beyond all comprehension.
The team of the 80,s was probably our best team but spread over a limited period of say 7 months tops.
The current crop still remain 2 to 3 players shy of equalling that side or the 91 team which not free flowing still remain the team to aspire to.
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  #48  
Old 30-12-2017, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
Its a myth, not so many of the squad went to QPR as people like to change the facts to fit the myth. Its also forgotten that Bloye pushed Venables out after TV asked the Board for backing when rumours suggested Bloye had approached Howard Kendal to take over as manager.
I have often wondered how the team of the 80s would have done under Kendall
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  #49  
Old 30-12-2017, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
Excuse me but I always post this when a discussion on the team of the 80’s comes up, but it’s a truely remarkable stat:

Their ages at the start of our promotion winning season in 78/79:

Burridge 26
Hinshelwood 22
Sansom 19
Gilbert 18
Cannon 24
Murphy 18
Nicholas 18
Kember 29
Walsh 19
Swindelhurst 22
Hilaire 18
Fenwick 18
That truly is a wow!
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  #50  
Old 30-12-2017, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP Satellite View Post
The strange thing, from my point of view, was that the Palace teams assembled by Allison and Venables, even at Third Division level, were genuinely very good footballing sides, I would argure far better than the workmanlike teams I saw under Bert Head in my earliest years watching Palace - certainly better than the ‘route one’ style adopted under Coppell between 1984- to circa 1991 - although his later teams were more expansive - it’s only the period between getting relegated under Allision in 1973 and promotion back to Division One in 1979 as the best ‘footballing’ seasons I can remember watching Palace.

Those teams went toe to toe with the great Leeds team of the mid 70s (Harvey, Bremner, Hunter, Giles, Lorimer, Clarke etc and beat them 1-0 at Elland Road (the same Leeds team that controversially lost 2-1 in the European Cup Final of 1975!).

The following season, (76/77) under Venables, Palace, still in the third tier took on the Liverpool side at Anfield and drew 0-0 (lost the replay 3-2) a side that contained such greats as Clemence, Smith, Hughes, Keegan, Kennedy, Toshack etc - football was a far more
physical game in the 70s and 80s, but the Palace teams of the era could play good stuff
(we were also very capable of getting thoroughly embarrased by teams like Halifax, Grimsby, Port Vale and Northampton for balance, but Allison and Venables teams had a reliance on being expansive with midfielders and defenders often interchanging (which sometimes was our undoing) so the football was usually more easy on the eye than later years.

You can’t make a like for like comparison with contemporary football to even 25 years ago - so much has changed, faster tempo, less physical challenges allowed, better playing surfaces, bigger and better quality squads and the influx of better players and coaches has made much of the football that could be best described as ‘agricultural’ largely redundant from what was the norm in the 80s and early 90s.
To add top that, when we beat Leeds at Elland Road and held Liverpool at Anfield, this wasn't a third division team getting a lucky goal and "hanging on" or having a backs-to-the-wall nil nil draw. We beat Leeds comprehensively and i would say we were unlucky not to win at Anfield.
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  #51  
Old 31-12-2017, 12:10 AM
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I know it is popular to denegrate Venables as, shall we say, a wheeler-dealer, but I think he had a magnificent impact on the club. Malcolm Allison is one of my all time heroes; as has been discussed his establishing the foundations of youth - and following the Palace from the time we were relegated from Div 1 to the time we got back was the best period of my life - and don't forget the 2 consecutive FA youth cup wins. But I wonder how we had progressed had he not worked with Venables. His time at Man City with Joe Mercer to me shows he was better working in tandem with someone else. And for us, Venables was that man.

Aside from his footballing knowledge, it was great to see Big Mal standing in front of the Roker End or the Shed indicating that Palace would win by some outrageous score. This worked. Unfortunately, he did the same sort of thing against Halifax and Chester, which tended to have the opposite effect. The introduction of Venables calmed this down somewhat. I think Venables was the best footballing manager that we have had (with the greatest respect to Mr. Coppell) and for that matter the best England manager aside from Alf Ramsey.

In my opinion, it was Ray Bloye who was the wheeler-dealer who ended the team of the eighties.
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  #52  
Old 31-12-2017, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
I thought Bloye had already sold the Whitehorse end to Sainsburys by then? Did Bloye ever explain what was happening at the time?
To be honest I don't recall the details, but we went into the 80/81 season knowing the Whiltehorse Lane end was out of commission as that was why we bought season tickets for the AW. We foolishly thought that due to a brilliant Palace storming up the league, games would be all ticket and tickets hard to come by. Needless to say we should not have bothered as by the end of the season, I doubt we were getting 14,000.

I'm pretty sure we knew about the Sainsbury's deal, but maybe not the extent of their intrusion.
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  #53  
Old 31-12-2017, 12:35 AM
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I don't know why people try to make these comparisons. It's a different game, with different levels of professionalism, different styles and completely different pressure and attitude.
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Old 31-12-2017, 08:31 AM
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I don't know why people try to make these comparisons. It's a different game, with different levels of professionalism, different styles and completely different pressure and attitude.
The right answer, methinks.
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Old 31-12-2017, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP Satellite View Post

The ‘Team of the 80’s’ had it’s roots in the great Palace Youth side of the mid to late 1970s - players such as Kenny Sansom (left back), Billy Gilbert and Terry Fenwick (central defenders), Peter Nicholas (defensive midfielder), Jerry Murphy (attacking midfielder), Vince Hilaire (winger) and Ian Walsh (centre forward).

.....

Added to that, players such as Paul Hinshelwood, Jim Cannon and David Swindlehurst had been Palace juniors since circa 1970/71 and with the return of Steve Kember in 1978, (a Palace junior since 1963, who had left in 1971 just as players like Cannon, Hinshelwood and Swindlehurst were emerging at youth level - you had a virtually entirely home grown squad by 1978 - the only significant regular non Palace junior was keeper John Burridge, who we signed in Feb 1978 - Paul Hammond had been a regular in goal for Palace between 1973 and 1976, playing in the same youth teams as Cannon, Swindlehurst and Hinshelwood, briefly replaced by Tony Burns for just over a year before Burridge arrived.

.....

Kenny Sansom was an integral part of the side that gained promotion from Division Three in 1976/77, along with the aforementioned Cannon, Hinshelwood and Swindlehurst, so that’s four of the players, all had played first team games since 1973 (Sansom made his debut as early as 1975!) - you could say they were the nucleus of the fabled ‘team of the 80’s’.

Players such as Gilbert, Nicholas, Hilaire and Walsh and Murphy were all on the fringe on the first team before Palace were promoted from the third tier in 1977 and played quite regularly in both the 1977/78 and 78/79 seasons - off all the players, the first major player to leave was Sansom to Arsenal in the summer of 1980 - which really did herald the decline of the side, but to say that Venables reassembled it at QPR later that year is also quite wrong.

.....


Could I compare the Team of the 80’s to today’s squad? Somebody already questioned Benteke versus Swindlehurst.

Swindlehurst was a very hard working ‘target man’ centre forward in the mould of say Mark Bright, Iain Dowie or Neil Shipperley, but I doubt he was better than them or Benteke, but he did work his socks off for us (missed plenty of sitters though!) alonside scoring 70 goals in around 8 seasons, he went on to Derby and West Ham after being replaced by Ian Walsh, again very commited but I would say Benteke edges him for even now for the quality of his goals at Villa, Liverpool and Palace, Walsh always looked a bit too lightweight in his career at Palace to me.

Of the others, Wilf we have already extensively discussed is on a higher level already to Vince Hilaire, but they were very similar as teenagers in terms of talent but also equally frustrating in their end product, where Zaha is now had and shoulders above Vince.

Burridge would be comforably ahead of Speroni, more imposing, especially at corners and crossing - Jules has razor sharp reflexes, but Burridge was even quicker and braver - only John Jackson and Nigel Martyn can be considered as better in the 47 years I have seen Palace keepers.

Of the defence - along with Burridge, they conceded only 24 goals in 42 games when winning the Second Division Championship in 78/79 - I would comfortably put them all ahead of virtually any Palace back four, possibly in our entire history, so that’s Hinshelwood at right back, Sansom at left back (easily Palace’s greatest full back I have seen), Cannon and Gilbert as centre backs, two of the toughest guys to ever wear the Red and Blue.

Only the 1990/91 defence of Martyn, Humphrey, Shaw, Thorn and Young would challenge them, but the difference for me was that the Palace side of 78/79 could all play great passing football, the 90/91 side was far more direct and physical.

Honestly, Sakho, Tomkins and Dann are not on the same level either physically or skill wise - don’t even get me started on the full backs - the current crop would not be allowed near the Palace dressing rooms in 79 or 91!

Midfield, Cabaye over Murphy all day long - but defensively, Peter Nicholas should be in the Palace Hall of fame - think Sean Derry, Michael Huges, Mile Jedinak, Luka Milovejevic - Nicholas for me over them all.

I get the feeling that players like Loftus Cheek and Andros Townsend would slot very well into the ball playing team of the 80s - almost an upgrade on Murphy and Hilaire, who could be frustrating and brilliant in equal measure.

Tactically, I hate to say it, Venables was probably the best coach ( and also the biggest spiv) Palace have ever had - I have heard that Roy Hodgson was quite a regular visitor to the Palace training ground at Mitcham in the mid 70’s - picking up tips from the early days of that team of the 80’s, I think I should add that people such as Arnie Warren and John Cartwright as well as Malcolm Allison had a massive input into forming the ‘Team of the 80s’ more so than Venables, who largely got to cash in on the groundwork those guys put into creating probably the best home grown squad Palace will ever have.
Very good summary

IMO Terry Venables (in his first stint) is the best coach we ever had. We played some pretty exciting football when he came back under Goldberg, but finances were against him....signed Fan Zyhi, a great CB

In your original assessment of the core of the 'Team of the 80's, you missed out one player, Ian Evans, who saw his career ended by a leg break from a George Best tackle before we got promoted to the top tier....I always feel he was the best CB we ever had.

Likewise anyone who saw Kenny Sansom play for us will probably agree he was the best FB we ever had.

I don't think you can compare Cabaye with Murphy...the latter pretty poor defensively but probably the best passer of the ball in a Palace shirt.
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  #56  
Old 31-12-2017, 09:56 AM
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Swindlehurst v Benteke?
Swindlehurst all the way.
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Green Bin View Post
Very good summary

IMO Terry Venables (in his first stint) is the best coach we ever had. We played some pretty exciting football when he came back under Goldberg, but finances were against him....signed Fan Zyhi, a great CB

In your original assessment of the core of the 'Team of the 80's, you missed out one player, Ian Evans, who saw his career ended by a leg break from a George Best tackle before we got promoted to the top tier....I always feel he was the best CB we ever had.

Likewise anyone who saw Kenny Sansom play for us will probably agree he was the best FB we ever had.

I don't think you can compare Cabaye with Murphy...the latter pretty poor defensively but probably the best passer of the ball in a Palace shirt.
Got to say it - Ian Evans really is one of my stand out Palace heroes in the five decades I have been watching Palace.

I didn't include him as a 'Team of the 80's' player as his horrific leg break (I was just yards away and never forgot or forgave George Best for his wreckless tackle or his nonchalant attidude after it) as it was early in the 1977/78 season - before young lads that formed the bulk of the team of the 80s had properly established themselves.

For instance, if memory serves, the day Evans broke his leg, Palace would have had Tony Burns in goal and players such as Steve Perrin, Jeff Bourne, Barry Silkman and Rachid Harkouk still playing - obviously the already established Jim Cannon, Paul Hinshelwood and Kenny Sansom would have been there, with Vince one of the first to break through from the Palace Youth side after Sansom, Ken had already played a full season by 1977!

Obviously, it took a while for Billy Gilbert to establish himself as Ian 'Taffy' Evans replacement at centre half. Venables had long established older players such as Stewart Jump and Peter Wall (you might draw comparisons with Martin Kelly and Damian Delaney in the current Palace squad) to fill Evans role before Gilbert established himself towards the end of the 1977/78 season.

Evans had been such a great captain for Palace since his arrival (with Venables!) in a swap deal that took the legendary Don Rogers to QPR early in the 1974/75 season.

Evans, to me, epitomised the energy and never say die attitude we have come to expect and admire in Palace captains - a pivotal figure in our great FA Cup run in 1976 and leading Palace to promotion from Division Three in 1977 after three blisteringly close attempts in 1975 and 1976.

Evans was a little bit older than Jim Cannon, who was already a great hero with the Palace crowd, breaking through as a kid over a year before Evans arrived.

But I would venture to suggest that Evans terrible injury was one of the key elements in the overall decline of the team of the 80s.

He could well have been the father figure those younger lads needed when they began to struggle after an initial great start in Division One in 1979 - Cannon went on to become to be our longest serving and enduringly great Palace captains (by the way, if ever a Palace player deserved lasting monument - surely it's Jim Cannon) -
but I think Evans already had those three years as captain and knew the job that bit more than Jim at the time - a close call though.

We will never properly know, but I feel Ian Evans was probably the missing piece in the jigsaw for Venables in his last season at Palace - I think Gerry Francis was briefly Palace's captain - a team mate at QPR to Venables and Evans - not much doubt if you ever met him, how much Evans loved being Palace captain - and most of us will treasure his days at Palace as among our greatest.
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:57 AM
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As a bit of a footnote - two Palace midfielders who would have come through the ranks with Hinshelwood, Cannon and Swindlehurst and fitted the blueprint were Martin Hinshelwood (Paul's brother) and Nick Chatterton.

Martin Hinshelwood is another of those players that you can only wonder how great he may have become, but was blighted by injury that meant he retired just as the players of his age had established themselves and just before the younger ones broke through - a sublime talent though, I'm fairly sure he was on a par with Murphy with Murphy's talent on the ball.

Nicky Chatterton (son of the Palace groundsman Len and a genuine local lad too) was probably not as gifted a player, but was an important player for several seasons, more often as back up in midfield rather than a regular starter (in the days when there was only one sub - Nick had many games at No 12 - but would also slot in on the wing at times too.

I would say his position largely was largely as an attacking midfielder and once players like Vince and Jerry Murphy broke through, his days were numbered, but another great Palace servant and one of those players that trode the same path as a Palace junior that those later on took on to a higher level.
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