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  #21  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
Sure, but it will level the playing field because we know that big teams get the favours, especially at home. This will help us be sure.
No chance. Look at the post I quoted - big club still getting the bias.

Anything that is a 50/50 decision will be given to the big team. When the away team scores at Old Trafford, the video ref will go over every single bit of footage in the build up to the goal looking for the tiniest indiscretion. ‘Goal disallowed as the player taking the throw-in 45 seconds beforehand had a toe over the line.’

Do not be fooled into thinking this will level the playing field. It will just make it worse.
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  #22  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
The refs will still be biased, even after seeing the replay.

Watch the highlights from Juve vs Torino the other night.

It can only be used for clear offsides or deliberate acts of violence off the ball. It just doesn't work on matters of opinion.
^^^

The offside thing also needs to be similar to goal line tech - automated quick decision.
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  #23  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
The only thing they can really use it for is blatant offsides that lead to goals or blatant acts of violence off the ball.

If the VAR starts flagging up random fouls/potential handballs then we'll have a hundred stoppages per game.

They've already trialled it in the international youth tournaments and foreign cup competitions and it's proved to be a right mess. The other night in the Juve vs Torino game the VAR flagged a blatant foul in the lead up to Juve's second goal. The ref ran over, watched a replay and still deemed it wasn't a foul. It couldn't have been more obvious.

They still manage to get the decisions wrong even after spending an age watching a replay, which is why it can only be used for definite offsides that lead directly to goals or off the ball acts of violence IMO.
If used properly it should have disallowed Bournemouths first goal, and Niasse would have been done for diving in the game.

Would prefer they use it much more like Rugby... Is there any reason i cannot award the try etc.

The VAR has to be given the authority to make that decision, like rugby, like cricket, not have the ref run over to a screen if it is to be used IMO.
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  #24  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:03 PM
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Does the VAR show the incident from different angles? And who chooses the angles he can view? Or does the ref just get to look at one version of events? (Pointless if the latter)
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  #25  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
^^^

The offside thing also needs to be similar to goal line tech - automated quick decision.
How about McArthur against Everton last season though?

Still question marks over whether he was interfering with play by attempting to go for a ball he got nowhere near, and didn't obstruct or influence the keeper in anyway.

Not sure any decision will be quick and clear cut, however much they trim it down.
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  #26  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by GrayP41ace View Post
How about McArthur against Everton last season though?

Still question marks over whether he was interfering with play by attempting to go for a ball he got nowhere near, and didn't obstruct or influence the keeper in anyway.

Not sure any decision will be quick and clear cut, however much they trim it down.
Both cricket and rugby the decision is made on the field and the VAR is there to say if there is conclusive evidence it is wrong, hence Umpires call etc.

If you watch from 3 angles and aren't sure - the on field decision remains. If you see it is clearly wrong you overturn the on field decision. Should be teh VAR's call though, NOT the ref having to watch again.
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  #27  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:23 PM
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The ref shouldn’t be tunning over to a moniter - there should be another ref in a tv box telling the ref what the decision is. That much is obvious.
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  #28  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
The ref shouldn’t be tunning over to a moniter - there should be another ref in a tv box telling the ref what the decision is. That much is obvious.
That is what happens. The is another ref running the VAR side of things.
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  #29  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:33 PM
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How about each manager gets 3 appeals per match to use and if and when they are all used up has to abide as per usual by the refs decision.
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  #30  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
That is what happens. The is another ref running the VAR side of things.
Is it only for goal offsides and pens?
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  #31  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:41 PM
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Haven’t they got earpieces to communicate? The ref’ll go over to the monitor and probably have to log and he’ll forget the fvcking password
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  #32  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:45 PM
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The VAR will probably be programmed as racist anyway.
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  #33  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:47 PM
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VAR will not work in football anyway.

In Tennis; great for deciding if a ball did or didn't cross the line.

In Cricket; great for deciding if a ball will or wont hit stumps or a bowlers foot did or didn't cross the line.

Take Zaha's penalty against City. It will still come down to the views of a single person it will only serve to further emphasise that point and further raise suspicions of corruption.
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  #34  
Old 05-01-2018, 01:02 PM
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Great for goaline decisions and no stoppage to the game but don't agree with VAR in it's proposed format.

Think the Tennis system works well with challenges.

Restrict each team to one challenge per half which would mean the game doesn't stop start all the time with the crowd not knowing what is going on.

Seen it on the continent in Germany, Italy and Portugual chaotic scenes.
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  #35  
Old 05-01-2018, 01:12 PM
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Benteke was offside when setting up the first on Tuesday. Was he offside *enough* for it to be overturned by VAR? I'm not sure how the rules are supposed to be applied.
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  #36  
Old 05-01-2018, 01:36 PM
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So if there is a controversial decision that the ref misses up our end do we all make the T sign that they do in cricket when they want a review. That would be quite funny/annoying, if we did every time the ball is up our end.
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  #37  
Old 05-01-2018, 02:04 PM
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Benteke was offside when setting up the first on Tuesday. Was he offside *enough* for it to be overturned by VAR? I'm not sure how the rules are supposed to be applied.
I suggest he wasn't offside because the defender's back leg kept him on. Great decision by the lino.
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Old 05-01-2018, 02:58 PM
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VAR will not work in football anyway.

In Tennis; great for deciding if a ball did or didn't cross the line.

In Cricket; great for deciding if a ball will or wont hit stumps or a bowlers foot did or didn't cross the line.

Take Zaha's penalty against City. It will still come down to the views of a single person it will only serve to further emphasise that point and further raise suspicions of corruption.
Agree with this, football demands far more subjective opinions from the ref then the other 2 sports. I would argue that in cricket, the use of technology hasn’t gone far enough. There would be far fewer incorrect decisions if the game was adjudicated solely by an umpire watching a screen with full use of technology - ball tracker, snicko, hot spot, replays etc.

The current system is a mish mash of traditional on field umpire and modern technology. Rightly or wrongly it still involves the onfield umpire’s subjective opinion to be responsible for most decisions, with a limited number of referrals. The old guideline of giving the benefit of the doubt to the batsmen is maintained by having ‘umpires call’ on very close decisions. To an extent I agree with this as it upholds the tradition of umpire decision making and prevents the onfield umpire from being no more than a walking jumper holder. On the other hand it is somewhat ludicrous when a not out decision is reviewed, proven to be out, but not out enough to be given out. The system of reviews and all the technology involved highlights just how many umpiring decisions are wrong. I can’t think of many truly subjective (ie difficult for a computer to make) decisions an umpire has to make other than batsmen not playing a shot on an lbw decision? The technology is there so I can’t see many compelling reasons to not use it in full (tradition and keeping the same laws at grass root and professional level?)

Refereeing a football match on the other hand is full of subjective, contentious decisions that often aren’t agreed upon after dozens of replays from a multitude of angles and speeds. Even the traditionally more black and white decisions such as offsides are not always helped by a replay - they don’t often help decide whether a player is passive or active, interfering with play, etc. Replays provide no concrete evidence of whether a play has dived or not, whether a ball has taken a small deflection for a corner, if a penalty/foul should be awarded because there was ‘contact’ or whether a ball striking an arm should be handball or not.

In short, technology alone cannot referee a football match as it pretty much can tennis or cricket and perhaps we are better largely leaving it out other than the goaline technology that exists? Football is a different sport that is ‘in play’ for long periods unlike the stop start nature of tennis and cricket (and American football) and doesn’t lend itself to constant stoppages for video review in the same way.

A far better solution is to actually have some consistency among refereeing decisions and clarity on what the laws actually are.

Handball is a mockery with different decisions and interpretations each week - deliberate, accidental, ball to hand, hand to ball, natural position, etc. For a multi billion pound industry it’s a joke.

Some refs play the advantage for one second, others for 10. One week players get sent off for their first two booksble offences (Gayle v Newcastle) the next week a player gets away with ‘warnings’ for 3 or 4 bookable offences when on a yellow card (coquelin v arsenal). One week a player gets a touch that wouldnt knock a baby over (benteke v Liverpool) but we are told it’s a penalty and a great decision because there is contact, the next we are told players are simulating by going down to easily even when there is very apparent contact/tripping/shoving (wilf recently) and should be banned. Replays will not help this, football needs to get its house in order and reiterate what the bloody rules are and ensure there are fewer pompous, arrogant, egotistical cretins enforcing them.

Last edited by teesdale99; 05-01-2018 at 03:13 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-01-2018, 03:12 PM
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Think the Managers need a red button to press in the dugout when they want to challenge?!
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:27 PM
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Think the Managers need a red button to press in the dugout when they want to challenge?!
Is the game stopped immediately when a challenge is made, thereby leading to a button being used to stop a break away or goal scoring chance? Or when the ball goes dead? Supposing the ball stays in play for 5 minutes, then the decision is reviewed - what happens to the ‘lost’ game time? Or is it stopped at the next ‘lull’ in play - another subjective decision. One mans lull is another’s long ball over the top and a goal two seconds later.

How long do you get to make a review? As per my previous post it’s not cricket with defined passages of play, ie one delivery at a time. What if a full back dives by his own corner flag whilst shielding the ball because he gets the lightest of brushes (happens every 2 minutes)? More often than not it’s clearly not worth a review, but it sure as hell would be if the opposition punt a quickly taken free kick up the field and score. Does the ball have to be dead for a review, ie a free kick given? What about a review for a free kick that isn’t given? Or an off the ball incident? Perhaps a manger can ask for a review because a referee fails to book a goalie for time wasting?

The list goes on...
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