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  #1  
Old 16-05-2018, 12:09 PM
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It seems even the Tories believe in state-controlled railways

Once again the East Coast mainline is to be run by the state. Talk about admissions of failure. Now who was it who was saying Corbyn’s plans were far-fetched. To view the link you have to Register or Login

Of course Southern and many other franchises are already run by the state, just not our state.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:17 PM
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Hopefully the start of a complete re-think and re-nationalising of the railways. The current system of ownership / operating doesn't work and never will. Be bold, take the decision and start again from scratch!
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:28 PM
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Good news but Grayling will cock it up.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:30 PM
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Good news but Grayling will cock it up.
Well if hes going to run it Im definitely going to use Thameslink.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:33 PM
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Good news but Grayling will cock it up.

That's why they call him Dickfingers.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:35 PM
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That's why they call him Dickfingers.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:38 PM
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‘Mr Grayling told parliament that the firms operating the franchise "will have lost nearly 200m", but that this had not been a loss to taxpayers "at this time".

He said after two months of analysis he had concluded that taking back control would provide the smoothest possible transition to a new operation.’

Only took him 2 months of analysis? What’s he been doing for the last 8 years then? And there I was thinking only the private sector knew how to run things. I suppose at least we can be reassured that this government knows how to ‘take back control’
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:39 PM
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Mr Grayling told parliament that the firms operating the franchise "will have lost nearly 200m", but that this had not been a loss to taxpayers "at this time".
He said after two months of analysis he had concluded that taking back control would provide the smoothest possible transition to a new operation.

And there I was thinking only the private sector knew how to run things.
You are familiar with Network Rail?
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:44 PM
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You are familiar with Network Rail?
I am. I thought they were only there to take the blame when the franchise operators screwed up. A kind of arms length public sector punchbag.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:45 PM
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I am. I thought they were only there to take the blame when the franchise operators screwed up. A kind of arms length public sector punchbag.
You thought wrong. Network rail is the worst performing element of our rail service, and has been for a long while.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:48 PM
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You thought wrong. Network rail is the worst performing element of our rail service, and has been for a long while.
Yes of course. I wonder if anyone has ever thought of combining the track and operations into one entity. No, on second thoughts that would be ridiculous.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:49 PM
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It was a great service in between the last 2 operators.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:50 PM
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Once again the East Coast mainline is to be run by the state. Talk about admissions of failure. Now who was it who was saying Corbyn’s plans were far-fetched. To view the link you have to Register or Login

Of course Southern and many other franchises are already run by the state, just not our state.
Here's a breakdown:

Arriva Trains Wales - Government of Germany
c2c - Government of Italy
Caledonian Sleeper - UK-based multinational
Chiltern - Government of Germany
CrossCountry - Government of Germany
East Midlands Trains - UK-based Transport company
Eurostar - 55% Government of France, 30% Government of Canada, 10% UK-based investment company, 5% Government of Belgium
Grand Central - Government of Germany
GWR - UK-based transport company
Greater Anglia - 60% Government of The Netherlands, 40% Japanese multinational company
Govia Thameslink - 65% UK-based Transport Company, 35% Governments of France and Canada
Heathrow Connect - UK-based Transport Company
Heathrow Express - UK-based transport company
Hull Trains - UK-based transport company

London Overground - 50% Government of Germany, 50% Government of Hong Kong
Merseyrail - 50% UK-based multinational, 50% Government of The Netherlands
Northern - 50% UK-based multinational, 50% Government of The Netherlands
Scotrail - Government of The Netherlands
South Western - 70% UK-based transport company, 30% Government of Hong Kong
Southeastern - 65% UK-based Transport Company, 35% Governments of France and Canada
TfL Rail - Government of Hong Kong
Transpennine Express - UK-based transport company
Virgin West Coast - 51% UK-based transport company, 49% tax-haven based multinational
Virgin East Coast - 90% UK-based transport company, 10% tax-haven based multinational

West Midlands - 70% Government of The Netherlands, 15% Japanese-based privatised railway, 15% Japanese-based multinational company

16/25 are either partially or wholly-owned by another Sovereign Nation's government. 64%.
The Dutch have a hand in 5 (20%), the Germans have 5 (20%) too, France have 3 (12%), Hong Kong have 3 as well (12%), even Canada has interests in 3 (12%). Private industry have stakes in 17 (68%).

Why are the profits of these franchises going to multinationals and other governments when examples like East Coast proved that operating railway lines directly brings in a better return to The Treasury and a better experience for fare-paying passengers?
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:54 PM
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What profits. TOCs make very little money. Last time I checked the overall return was 3%, which is tiny. The reason for the involvement of European government owned enterprises ought to be obvious, given the fourth railway package. It’s called practice. Also for MTC and like as well
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:54 PM
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15/24 are either partially or wholly-owned by another Sovereign Nation's government. 63%.

Why are the profits of these franchises going to multinationals and other governments when examples like East Coast proved that operating railway lines directly brings in a better return to The Treasury and a better experience for fare-paying passengers?
Great stats. Its one big mystery. Most of our energy generating assets and networks are also owned by foreign companies/governments. Obviously the rule is UK state bad, foreign state good.
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Old 16-05-2018, 12:56 PM
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What profits. TOCs make very little money. Last time I checked the overall return was 3%, which is tiny.
Theyre running it for the good of the nation? I now have immensely more sympathy for them.
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Old 16-05-2018, 01:01 PM
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I made an error, I forgot CrossCountry! (How on earth I made that error I don't know)

I've corrected it, and it makes it 16/25, which is 64%!
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Old 16-05-2018, 01:07 PM
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What profits. TOCs make very little money. Last time I checked the overall return was 3%, which is tiny. The reason for the involvement of European government owned enterprises ought to be obvious, given the fourth railway package. It’s called practice. Also for MTC and like as well
East Coast returned 1 billion to The Treasury over the 5 year period it ran, 200 million a year.

Virgin East Coast paid 204 million in the first year, far below expectations and promises. They've also claimed that Stagecoach (90% of the company) lost "over 100 million", it's clear that running the line publicly will not only make sure the line has a positive input into The Treasury, but also help improve passenger experience which on VTEC has gone way downhill.

What's happened here is VTEC overbid. They wanted to control intercity to the Midlands and the North from London. Whether this has had a positive impact on VTWC remains to be seen, we'll see. They lost it now. Bring back East Coast!
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Old 16-05-2018, 01:15 PM
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DOR (East Coast) wasn’t required to make any investment.

Personally I don’t give a crap who runs the railways as long as it is efficient as subsiding rich people out of general taxation is generally considered a bad thing. So if I see a sensible plan for nationalisation that stacks up economically I would support it. I’ve yet to see one.

ps. VTEC clearly overbid. No one is denying this.
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Old 16-05-2018, 01:16 PM
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What's happened here is VTEC overbid. They wanted to control intercity to the Midlands and the North from London. Whether this has had a positive impact on VTWC remains to be seen, we'll see. They lost it now. Bring back East Coast!
Yes and they can scrap those ridiculous new ticket machines while they are at it. They have clearly been designed to extract maximum revenue from unsuspecting passengers by only showing the most expensive options and making it so complicated to buy a ticket that you end up with the wrong one and have to buy another one on the train.
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