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  #1  
Old 11-11-2002, 09:23 AM
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The sad state of British music
Had the misfortune to watch Top of the Pops last Friday (two young sons being my excuse). What crap !! Sounded more like an edition of a Jamie Oliver prog, with talentless "singers" mumbling about gravy, flava & ketchup. What the hell is going on - the only decent acts on display were Tom Jones & Madonna, (combined age 100 years ?). The whole Top 20 included only one band (the excellent, but veteran U2). Have the singles buying public been totally brainwashed by boy bands, products of misnamed TV "talent" shows and unintelligible rap singers ? Where have all the good bands gone ? Please enlighten me.
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Old 11-11-2002, 11:53 AM
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I read a refreshing article in Friday's Standard by one of the chaps who compiles the singles chart, saying how it is full of utter crap, and is effectively a chart for the best promoters and marketeers rather than for the best music.

He said reviews are being undertaken to improve the quality of the charts, which may include incorporating the number of downloads. Not sure how that will work in practice, and I suspect it will come to nothing.

I haven't listened to the charts for years, although I was unfortunate enough to hear that Westsh!te have yet another number 1, which is yet another drippy ballad, and which will also be forgotten in 2 months time.
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Old 11-11-2002, 11:55 AM
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Dobbo, you're not wrong mate.

I'm 43 and therefore perhaps I'm not allowed to comment but I still buy quite a lot of current music, as my postings on the "What are you listening to" thread will attest to.

The charts, now, are the worst I have ever heard. Almost exclusively populated by talentless people sampling or covering old songs, badly.

I blame "popstars".
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:10 PM
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It's OK guys, this may well be 'the charts' but one thing they don't show is a comparison of sales compared to years ago. Singles on vinyl from proper bands years ago, formed not from good looks but from talent and being mates anyway, easily sold more singles than todays flash in the pans.

I prefer to look beyond the charts where you will still find such bands making their own music as they did years ago, Travis and Coldplay to name 2 brits, even more from the US at present. Ultimately it is these bands that are the stars and rise beyond screaming 12 year olds, and the album charts are a better guide to music anyway. It's not so bleak when you turn off BBC and watch VH1 or MTV instead.
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:15 PM
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I'm sure a lot of people would blame hip hop and rap and "R and B" for the sad state of music today but whey are partly at fault I don't particularly single out one particular genre. I blame the hype surrounding many pop acts today, such those groups or individuals who create hype by criticising everyone else and/or getting into scrapes or getting involved in incidents for example Oasis, Eminem and So Solid Crew, also those singers and groups who like to pad their personal and love lives and making every little thing about their lives public, such as Atomic Kitten and the Appleton sisters, also our national obsession with the looks of popstars who are the opposite sex and buying their records because of that alone, The fuss people make about S Club or Kylie's bum are two good examples of that, also catchy slogan used by bands designed to fool the gullable persons buying the records into thinking that doing that is something that is meaningful and will change their lives, eg the Spice Girls' Girl Power slogan. Also all these Popstar type programmes. I particularly despise this Popstars the Rivals programme, firstly, because Geri Halliwell is on it and the who idea of creating a fake rivalry between two bands and fixing the Christmas No. 1 is very very sad indeed.

Baloo, I don't like the idea of downloads counting towards the charts though. If you have not paid a penny to aquire your favourite music in any shape or form including recording your friends' CDs or by downloading or by the old practice of "taping off the radio" then I think you should have no say in determining the charts.
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gooders
The charts, now, are the worst I have ever heard. Almost exclusively populated by talentless people sampling or covering old songs, badly.
Was horrified over the weekend to discover that Atomic Kitchen's 'new' song includes sampling the strings, and nicking a line, from E.L.O.'s 'Last Train to London'.

Jeff Lynne must be spinning in his perm...

It's true about the promotion, the charts are just a stitch-up - wasn't the recent Elvis revival deleted whilst it was no. 1 so that the scheduled Will Young and/or Gareth Gates single could claim that position. Disgusting.

Music has always ebbed and flowed in terms of style (and how it appeals or not to older people such as you, and frighteningly, I) but the difference now is that it is decided by a couple of record company execs, who then scour the drama schools for young things who'll do what they're told. Time was when the companies looked for markets for the acts; now they look for acts for the markets.

What I can't understand is why Britain seems to be the only major chart in the world where the companies employ the straight-in-at-number-1 tactic with such success. Clearly America is too huge for that to work, but apparently it doesn't happen in the rest of Europe, whose markets are smaller than Britain's. Any theories on this?
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:23 PM
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Given up watching Top of the pops ages ago,will not watch it again until some proper bands are back in the charts.
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:26 PM
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My theory is the top record companies and promoters are too scared to take a chance on any marerick artists and prefer to play it safe with bland inoffensive stuff.
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ian of Chatham
Baloo, I don't like the idea of downloads counting towards the charts though. If you have not paid a penny to aquire your favourite music in any shape or form including recording your friends' CDs or by downloading or by the old practice of "taping off the radio" then I think you should have no say in determining the charts.


Neither do I. I was just reporting what this bloke said in his article.

If you're looking for someone to blame for the state of "popular" music today, look no further than Pete Waterman. He IS Satan.
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:32 PM
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I blame the 70's Glam era for ultimately signalling the death of decent chart music.
This is hardly new, just look at the Stock Aitken and Waterman era of the 80's ... total pop pish. Trouble is that these two bob pretty boys make the likes of Simon Caroll and Pete Waterman huge sums of money and all the time they continue to do so, they will not give a sh!te about what it sounds like. Thank christ we have the likes of Paul Weller, Travis, Coldway, Stereophonics, Oasis to keep us going.
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:36 PM
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Robbie
did anyone see that sad f%&ker Robbie Williams on t.v last night

- I tell you, if Noel had seen it, he would have smashed the telly. In fact, I reckon he bought an extra 5 or so t.v's, just so he could smash them up every time he saw Robbie's sad, my life's a mess, face.
oxo Robbie.
anyway, the Roses have released a best of, so life can't be all that bad !
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:39 PM
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The following people deserve to be shot for what they've done to a once great British music scene:

Pete Waterman
Simon Cowell
Simon Fuller
Louis Walsh
Take That
The Spice Girls
Westlife
Boyzone
Anyone who's ever auditioned for Popstars
Anyone who's ever auditioned for Pop Idol
Anyone who's ever auditioned for Popstars the Rivals
Anyone who's ever auditioned for Fame Academy

There are hundreds more.
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:39 PM
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Having had tthe pleasure to discover, and consequently buy, loads of new bands via the internet, I am horrified to hear of plans to sell CD's which cannot be copied. Quite amusing if you have bought a Sony CD Recorder!!

This is going to suffocate new talent by ensuring that money and energy is only given to surefire hits, i.e. packaged product!!

My Top Ten of bands discovered on the internet...in no particular order is

Avalanches
The Datsuns
Lemon Jelly
The Vines
Ben Kweller
Dave Matthews Band
Osymyso
Royksopp
Kings Of Convenience
Nonpoint

and yes, I did go out and buy the official product!
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Old 11-11-2002, 12:40 PM
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Re: Robbie
Quote:
Originally posted by ozeagle
anyway, the Roses have released a best of, so life can't be all that bad !


Correction: Silvertone have released ANOTHER best of, so the Roses themselves are unlikely to receive any royalties (although it's likely to be better than previously, as some arrangement must have been reached with Geffen (who released Second Coming) in order to allow a few tracks from that album).

Much better to get the albums, anyway (but then I would say that).
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Old 11-11-2002, 02:08 PM
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Re: The sad state of British music
Quote:
Originally posted by Dobbo
Had the misfortune to watch Top of the Pops last Friday (two young sons being my excuse).


And Pan's people weren't on it

Seriously the charts changed years ago and a timely exhibition is on at The British Library, details below, with the opportunity to win a Gibson Les Paul Classic Reissue Deluxe gold-top guitar.


50 Years of Number Ones
11 October 2002 - 7 January 2003
The first ever UK pop singles chart was published by New Musical Express on 14 November 1952. To celebrate the 50th anniversary of the chart, the British Library’s National Sound Archive presents a special interactive exhibition. Visitors can touch a screen to listen to any of over 900 Number One Hits - from Al Martino's 'Here in My Heart' in November 1952 to the current chart-topper. It’s a great opportunity to 'wander down memory lane'.

The list of Number One records illustrates the diversity of styles and artists that have, at one time or another, been the British record-buyers’ favourites. It's a fascinating barometer of public taste in popular music over half a century. Cool cats - from Kitty Kallen to Atomic Kitten - they’re all there.

Accompanying the sounds are pop memorabilia from the Library’s collections, along with a large screen displaying a montage of pop pictures and questions, prompting visitors to explore the Number One database. There is a 6 x 2 metre wall displaying the name of every track.

Alongside the exhibition there is the chance to win a Gibson Les Paul Classic Reissue Deluxe Gold Top guitar. This instrument is a replica of a 1968 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe Gold Top with mini-humbucker pickups. Les Paul was a leading innovator in guitar and electronics design. The Les Paul model manufactured by Gibson Inc. USA debuted - just like the Official UK Singles Chart - in 1952. Many chart-topping artists have played Gibson Les Paul guitars.
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Old 11-11-2002, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by anti-addick
It's OK guys, this may well be 'the charts' but one thing they don't show is a comparison of sales compared to years ago. Singles on vinyl from proper bands years ago, formed not from good looks but from talent and being mates anyway, easily sold more singles than todays flash in the pans.

Crass sold nearly 100,000 of one of their singles.
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Old 11-11-2002, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DANGERMOUSE
What I can't understand is why Britain seems to be the only major chart in the world where the companies employ the straight-in-at-number-1 tactic with such success. Clearly America is too huge for that to work, but apparently it doesn't happen in the rest of Europe, whose markets are smaller than Britain's. Any theories on this?

What's the question? We've put a few singles in at number one in Spain (if this shiftless, workshy, collection of siesta-taking lispers counts as a country in your book, Mr. President of the Phil Collins fan club).
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Old 11-11-2002, 02:22 PM
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I gave up watching TOTP about five years ago. I now seek the refuge of the middle-aged (40) music fan with a fix of TOTP2.

When I started buying singles in around 1975/6, selling 30,000 copies would struggle get you a place in the Top 50. Nowadays, you get a No.1 record selling that amount.

What saddens me is groups of 'singers' being called bands. To me, a pop band should be something that contains musical instruments, played, or at least attempted to be played by the members.

I think there should be TOTP 2 type show with an actual current chart to go with it. Perhaps it could be called an MOR chart, or be reflective of the musical tastes of people over about seven years old. Maybe an OVER35 chart, though how that would work in reality, God only knows - maybe basing it upon a Radio 2 Top 40??
Last edited by henryhallandhisbasque : 11-11-2002 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 11-11-2002, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Aguila
What's the question? We've put a few singles in at number one in Spain (if this shiftless, workshy, collection of siesta-taking lispers counts as a country in your book, Mr. President of the Phil Collins fan club).
I really touched a raw nerve with you on that one, didn't I?

My point was that I've read articles which say that only Britain amongst the major charts has a situation where the first week of sales is also the greatest. In former times, the Guinness Book of Hit Singles used to asterisk singles which went straight in at number 1; now it asterisks ones that don't...
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Old 11-11-2002, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Psychokiller
The following people deserve to be shot for what they've done to a once great British music scene:

Pete Waterman
Simon Cowell
Simon Fuller
Louis Walsh
Take That
The Spice Girls
Westlife
Boyzone
Anyone who's ever auditioned for Popstars
Anyone who's ever auditioned for Pop Idol
Anyone who's ever auditioned for Popstars the Rivals
Anyone who's ever auditioned for Fame Academy

There are hundreds more.



Quite right with the exception of take that lead man Gary Barlow who actually has talent - can write, sing and play a few instruments. Then again, he wasn't employed for his looks unlike the other was he.

I'm going to laugh when Robbie "i love myself and go on and on about my money" Williams dies of a drug overdose. Tosser.
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