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  #1  
Old 15-06-2001, 05:11 AM
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86 All Out
So what's the story guys? Four weeks ago when England beat the Paki's in the first test there was lots of woo hooing, bring on the Aussies, here comes England etc and since then nothing but deathly silence.

Has the cat got your collective tongues?

The one trick horse rules. 3 for 20 off nine. Bring on the test matches.
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  #2  
Old 15-06-2001, 05:22 AM
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Re: 86 All Out
Quote:
[i]nothing but deathly silence.
[/b]
Much the same way after the Aussies Indian tour

I don't think we had real high hopes for the one dayers,the test matches is where we improved.

I sent ya a pm bunghole
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Ian Holloway, November 6th,2012:
God know's how good Wilf's gonna be. I have never seen anyone do the things with the ball that he can do. I want to give him 2 footballs so that he has one at all times to show us what he can do
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  #3  
Old 15-06-2001, 05:35 AM
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Re: Re: 86 All Out
Quote:
Originally posted by sydney eagle
Much the same way after the Aussies Indian tour

I don't think we had real high hopes for the one dayers,the test matches is where we improved.

I sent ya a pm bunghole

Fair call on the Indian tour SE. For what it's worth, I think the English fans are putting a little too much emphasis on the result in India.

The Indians won fair and square, absolutely no question about that. However, the standard of cricket in those three matches was absolute top drawer, far superior than that in the recent series which England have won.

For me, the Indian series was one of the three best test series that Australia have played in over the past forty years (60-61 v the Windies in Oz and 72 against England in England, would be the other two).

To put things in perspective, it should be remembered that the Aussies were on a 17 match winning streak, so on the sheer score of probabilty were probably getting close to at some stage being rolled.

The other thing to bear in mind is that it's not as if we were flogged over there. Won the first test in a canter, lost the second on the fifth day with seven overs to play and lost the third by two wickets. Hardly a debacle.
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  #4  
Old 15-06-2001, 05:46 AM
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Agreed,I don't doubt the Aussies are a country mile ahead of ALL countries because quite simply they are.I also watched every ball bowled in the Indian series and it was the best series I've ever seen ....ever

I think the excitement by us(the english fans )is that we finally have a team we don't have to be ashamed of and can make at least a fight of this ashes series.

If we can stop those bloody disgusting batting collapses
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Ian Holloway, November 6th,2012:
God know's how good Wilf's gonna be. I have never seen anyone do the things with the ball that he can do. I want to give him 2 footballs so that he has one at all times to show us what he can do
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  #5  
Old 15-06-2001, 06:14 AM
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I have to admit our one day team are ****e @ the moment & we don't seem to have the "mental toughness" to win games that we should be e.g. Aussies @ Bristol & Pakistan @ Lord's whereas teams like Oz & Pakistan are showing thier experience & class by winning them.
But in our defence though we are missing several players & it will definitely help when Nasser come's back for the Test's along with Thorpe as well because we are missing his captainship (not having a pop @ Stewart though!)
Let's really judge us on the Test's though,but it does'nt look good for us ion the One Day games but I'm @ The Oval next Thursday V your mob,let's hope I get a England win for a change, although hopefully NOT our first one in this series?? (god let us win before then)

Roll on 2 days @ Trent Bridge & 2 days @ The Oval for the Test's & loadsa beer & maybe an England win??

Mind you I dread to think what all these defeats have done to our previously buoyant confidence though!
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  #6  
Old 15-06-2001, 06:19 AM
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u forgot Craig White le piddler....he is class I think this series will be quite tight....and I hope we turn the aussies over
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Ian Holloway, November 6th,2012:
God know's how good Wilf's gonna be. I have never seen anyone do the things with the ball that he can do. I want to give him 2 footballs so that he has one at all times to show us what he can do
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  #7  
Old 15-06-2001, 06:48 AM
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Apoligies for forgetting the mighty Craig White & who knows we may even find a place for Shah who along with Trescothick & possibly Hollioake have been our plus points so far!!
As for the series I still think the cons will have a little too much strength & experience for us & I reckon they will turn us over 3-1?
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  #8  
Old 15-06-2001, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by le piddler
who knows we may even find a place for Shah
I had never seen him play until this series.....very impressive indeed
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Ian Holloway, November 6th,2012:
God know's how good Wilf's gonna be. I have never seen anyone do the things with the ball that he can do. I want to give him 2 footballs so that he has one at all times to show us what he can do
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  #9  
Old 15-06-2001, 07:29 AM
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Skid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawnSkid Row lets the band keep playing on and on and on, til the break of dawn
Shah's a Pakistani. (Adds another name to the very long list).
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  #10  
Old 15-06-2001, 07:47 AM
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Skid are you saying this doesn't happen here in Oz?there are numerous "aussies" representing or have represented this country without being born here.Was Shah born in Pakistan?or was he just a paki growing up in England???
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Ian Holloway, November 6th,2012:
God know's how good Wilf's gonna be. I have never seen anyone do the things with the ball that he can do. I want to give him 2 footballs so that he has one at all times to show us what he can do
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  #11  
Old 15-06-2001, 07:57 AM
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poms woeful
what else is there to say, like england playing san marino....cannot possibly be any good with a bloke named "collingwood" in the side !
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  #12  
Old 15-06-2001, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sydney eagle
there are numerous "aussies" representing or have represented this country without being born here.
Excuse my ignorance SE but can you start us off with a few names (expecting my forwardness here to backfire ...)

In any case, the ODI's are the hit-and-giggle warm-up. The test matches are the main event.
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  #13  
Old 15-06-2001, 08:29 AM
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sydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the worldsydney eagle was playing in the snow, was banging on the doors; climbed up on the roof, the roof of the world
Quote:
Originally posted by philaire
Excuse my ignorance SE but can you start us off with a few names (expecting my forwardness here to backfire ...)
.
Kostya Tszu,Tatiana gregoriava and her husband,Joe Bugner,Kepler wessels,Michael Klim(not sure but I think he was born in Poland) Tiaan Strauss,Jelena Dokic,gimme some time they were just off the top of my head

I should mention I have no prob with it I just wanted to show that all countries do it
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Ian Holloway, November 6th,2012:
God know's how good Wilf's gonna be. I have never seen anyone do the things with the ball that he can do. I want to give him 2 footballs so that he has one at all times to show us what he can do
Last edited by sydney eagle : 15-06-2001 at 08:32 AM.
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  #14  
Old 15-06-2001, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sydney eagle
Was Shah born in Pakistan?or was he just a paki growing up in England???
He was born in Pakistan. I especially looked it up just to poke fun too, that's the best bit about it.

I'm only focusing on the cricket side of things as I know we have lots of imports. I dont class them Australian anyway, it's crap how you can represent a country which you have no ties too. That was hateful when we were trying to poach Alexander Popov to swim for us in the Olypmics just because he trains here.

The only import Aussie we've had that I know of playing cricket is Wessels, I'm sure there's probably more. Where was Symonds born? Was it the West Indies or out here? I think it's excusable if they've grown up here but if they head overseas to play/compete for another country when they're 20 odd (like Tatiana) then that's wrong.

I also think that Morrison choosing to play for Ireland is the biggest load of crap too. So what if one (or both) of his grandparents were Irish, he was born in England, had live nowhere else other than England so in my book that makes him English.

It's just too easy to change nationalities.
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Old 15-06-2001, 09:03 AM
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Thats exactly what I think Skid
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Ian Holloway, November 6th,2012:
God know's how good Wilf's gonna be. I have never seen anyone do the things with the ball that he can do. I want to give him 2 footballs so that he has one at all times to show us what he can do
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  #16  
Old 15-06-2001, 09:08 AM
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The writing was on the wall after NH was injured. Plus the fact we're a pile of dog poo at one day international cricket.

It doesn't help that AS (a lousy captain) is usually called for to replace Nassar. The man has about three stock replies after leading the team to defeat;
Reply 1; "Well, we're very disappointed obviously, we're all proud to represent out country."
Reply 2; "Of course the boys are hugely disappointed with this defeat."

Reply 3; " Obviously it's a huge honour to lead my country (to another defeat)."

Also, picking those tainted with losing when playing for England - people like BH, NK, AB, along with a lame duck, lame thinking captain, is hardly going to make us win these sort of matches, is it? What about sticking with the Test line-up (injuries permitting)?? Or is that too radical?

Still, at least we're nicely set-up in losing mode for the Ashes. The Aussies must be laughing in the dressing room at us again, and naturally, on the field.
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Old 15-06-2001, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by clubbruggekvfc
It doesn't help that AS (a lousy captain) is usually called for to replace Nassar
Why is he still playing international cricket for anyway? Surely there has to be a keeper good enough to replace him. You dont need too much batting skill to be on equal par with him nowadays.

Is daddy still on the selection comittee? (Was that how he got called up in the first place?)
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Old 15-06-2001, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skid Row

Why is he still playing international cricket for anyway? Surely there has to be a keeper good enough to replace him. You dont need too much batting skill to be on equal par with him nowadays.

Is daddy still on the selection comittee? (Was that how he got called up in the first place?)

Excuse me for sticking the boot in when things are going bad, but there are a few others that one could ask the same question about.

Cork? If that guy is up to playing international cricket then I'll turn it up forever.

Croft? Where is Ashley Giles. From what I've seen of him he is light years ahead of Croft ability wise. Is he injured, or do the dunderheaded English selectors consider him to be unsuited to one day cricket?

Mullally? Please, he spent more time as the drinks waiter when playing for Victoria and Western Australia than he did on the field.

England's biggest problem is that the county cricket system is so poor that players whose overall records indicate that they simply aren't good enough for international cricket, have been for years and still are considered automatic selections.

Vaughan and Trescothik are the exceptions, but unearthing only two young batsmen of test standard in 10 years points to a system that is in desparate need of overhauling.

If I were to give the English selectors some advice it would be to do what Australia did in the mid eighties when we were crap. Identify some young guys with talent, pick them and leave them there.

Be prepared to cop some hefty losses along the way, but don't toss them out when things go bad.

If after a being given their chance it is obvious that they aren't up to it then drop them and replace them with another young player with potential.

Don't take the easy way out and replace them with players who have consistently failed in the past. Doing this hasn't worked before and won't in the future.

Gough and Thorpe would be ideal role models, so build the team around them.

It might take a few years, but in the end English cricket will be rewarded. After all, how long should the English fans have to put up with watching players come in and out of the side who aren't up to it?

If it worked for us and the Pakis, then there's no reason why it shouldn't for England.
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Old 15-06-2001, 11:02 AM
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Steve in Phoenix Steve in Phoenix is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by bunghole

England's biggest problem is that the county cricket system is so poor that players whose overall records indicate that they simply aren't good enough for international cricket, have been for years and still are considered automatic selections.

Vaughan and Trescothik are the exceptions, but unearthing only two young batsmen of test standard in 10 years points to a system that is in desparate need of overhauling.

If I were to give the English selectors some advice it would be to do what Australia did in the mid eighties when we were crap. Identify some young guys with talent, pick them and leave them there. Be prepared to cop some hefty losses along the way, but don't toss them out when things go bad. If after a being given their chance it is obvious that they aren't up to it then drop them and replace them with another young player with potential.

Don't take the easy way out and replace them with players who have consistently failed in the past. Doing this hasn't worked before and won't in the future.

Sorry to be slow to respond bunghole but I didnt see this. A lot of things to argue about

Gillespie didnt impress me that much . Symonds got 2/24.. but I wouldnt say he's a great bowler. IMHO, one trick horse gets most of his wickets simply because he's McGrath's bowling pardner. Batsmen terrified by Glenn make easier pickings. Im probably being harsh I know - I just dont see him as great.

Harsh in the same way you see Cork and Mullally. Mullally is Englands best ODI bowler, his numbers prove it. He's also ranked very high (about no.3) in the ODI ratings which I know you dont rate much but that has to count for something. Cork is very erratic but he has that winning mentality so lacking in others.

I know what you're saying in the above about picking good young ones and sticking with them. But its possible to argue England did just that. I clearly remember both Border and Viv Richards saying how they expected John Crawley to be a worldclass batsman and he hasnt exactly done it with quite enough chances. You say dont toss them out.. then you say drop them when they dont take their chances.. .. which is kind of contradictory.

Vaugh and Trescothick arent the only two in the last 10 years. What about Thorpe and Hussain - they both were feted as members of a brat pack in 1990 but neither made it for quite a few years. But its true England arent doing well in promoting talent. It isnt an exact science though and even Australia are being criticized I have seen with their selections.

I dont think the county system is really the main problem especially with the new reforms. The biggest problem has been our lack of ODIs. Its quite amazing how much less we play than other nations, the sub-continent in particular. Less than a tenth in some cases. Its no coincidence we performed well in the Tests vs Pakistan but couldnt beat them in the ODI's.
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Old 15-06-2001, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
I dont think the county system is really the main problem especially with the new reforms. The biggest problem has been our lack of ODIs. Its quite amazing how much less we play than other nations, the sub-continent in particular. Less than a tenth in some cases. Its no coincidence we performed well in the Tests vs Pakistan but couldnt beat them in the ODI's.


But surely a county system that features three one-day competitions should produce competent short-game players to step up to international level? Have Gloucestershire collected all that silverwear just for turning up?

English county cricket is still soft, soft, soft.

One-Day cricket is very susceptible to coaching fashion and rather like Charles Hughes did in Football, a particular coach or coaches must have encouraged a coaching system whereby batsmen simply do not play enough balls through the "V" and are always closing the face of the bat.

The squirt down to third man is the long-ball hoof of cricket and is potentially just as damaging to long-term playing standards.
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