PDA

View Full Version : Shevchenko Spurs bound?


Daniel_Nash
30-06-2001, 07:50 PM
From the Guardian:

Tottenham are ready to shatter their transfer record to lure Andrei Shevchenko from Milan as they seek to unite the 24-year-old with his Ukraine strike partner Sergei Rebrov.
Glenn Hoddle hopes to negotiate the signing in the next fortnight and is willing to swap Norway's Steffen Iversen as part of a deal worth around £30million.

Shevchenko, among the world's finest goalscorers, is unhappy at Milan, who failed to qualify for next season's Champions League. He has made it clear he would jump at the chance to play in the Premiership and, in particular, alongside Rebrov.

The pair formed a formidable partnership with Dynamo Kiev and continue to shine for Ukraine. The indications last night were that Shevchenko is willing to spurn offers from Real Madrid or Barcelona in favour of White Hart Lane.

"Andrei's situation at Milan is not the best and definitely he wishes to play with Sergei," said Sandor Varga, Rebrov's agent and a close friend and advisor to Shevchenko. "If you put these two players together in one club there is no question the club will be successful.

"The fact that Tottenham are not in the Champions League would not be a reason for Andrei not to join them. Milan are not in the Champions League either, and England is his first choice.

Tottenham last night denied they were planning to buy Shevchenko but it is understood their owners Enic are trying to work out a deal. Any offer of Iversen could interest Milan, not least because the 24-year-old is remembered there from the Rosenborg team that triumphed in the San Siro in 1996 to eliminate Milan from the Champions League.

Although Shevchenko would still cost a fortune in fees and wages, Enic's billionaire founder, Joe Lewis, is intent on making a success of Tottenham and the new owners were yesterday preparing to unveil Liverpool's Christian Ziege as their latest signing, joining Teddy Sheringham, Gus Poyet and the defender Goran Bunjevcevic.

Shevchenko has scored 24 goals in each of his two seasons in Serie A since moving to Milan from Dynamo Kiev for £16m. He was Italy's top scorer in 1999-2000 and finished second behind Hernan Crespo of Lazio last season.

-------
It's not the first time he has been linked this summer... would be great news if he does join but it seems too good to be true somehow.

markholmes1991
30-06-2001, 07:54 PM
I was gonna say hang on this isn't a Spurs site, but I think your a Spurs fan, correct me if I'm wrong!

Daniel_Nash
30-06-2001, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by markholmes1991
I was gonna say hang on this isn't a Spurs site, but I think your a Spurs fan, correct me if I'm wrong!

I am a Spurs fan, but this is the World of Football forum so i thought it was allowed.

markholmes1991
30-06-2001, 08:08 PM
ignore me Daniel I'm not in a good mood at the moment.
It would be a cracking signing for Spurs & would surely bring out the best in Sergei Rebrov (who at times looked a little lost last season) just leaves me with these two questions:

1 = Is Iversons injury worse than first anticipated?

2 = Where does this leave Armstrong should this signing materialise??

markholmes1991
30-06-2001, 08:10 PM
858 posts for a non- Palace fan on these boards is quite admirable :p

Daniel_Nash
30-06-2001, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by markholmes1991
1 = Is Iversens injury worse than first anticipated?

2 = Where does this leave Armstrong should this signing materialise??

1. He is part of the deal apparently. But Ferdinand is 34 and will not last much longer. Spurs have a small ish squad as it is and another striker will make 6 (Rebrov, Iversen, Armstrong, Sheringham, Ferdinand), Iversen needs to be careful though he has had a few concussions and was said to be out for the season.

2. Leaves him out of the picture and up for transfer, as i expect he is already.

But yes it would be a quality signing. Fingers crossed.

The only reason i have 859 posts is because the level of conversation interests me ! heh

Eagles Fan
30-06-2001, 08:35 PM
Who gives a f*ck?

Palace
30-06-2001, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Eagles Fan
Who gives a f*ck?

Me actually, although i am a full blooded Palace supporter, i am very much interested in every Premiership clubs transfer dealings. Seeing Mr. Shevchenko playing in England would be amazing, and i enjoy teams such as Tottenham rising from the depths, on there way to being a major force in European Football. Tottenham are also sort of my second team, so theres another reason.

Does that answer your question?

Daniel_Nash
30-06-2001, 08:48 PM
Obviously i care too... but i thought the purpose of "World of Football" was to talk about other clubs and the "World of Sport" also means other sports allowed to.

I don't go round slagging off Palace news.. so why do it to Spurs?

Palace
30-06-2001, 09:46 PM
If someone supporting Spurs has clocked up over 800 posts on a Crystal Palace BBS, i think he has the right to talk about Spurs, especially if it is going to be the county's biggest transfer this summer. So Eagles Fan, lets not be arseholes, hey!

markholmes1991
30-06-2001, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Palace
If someone supporting Spurs has clocked up over 800 posts on a Crystal Palace BBS, i think he has the right to talk about Spurs, especially if it is going to be the county's biggest transfer this summer. So Eagles Fan, lets not be arseholes, hey!

well said! a pint heading your way

jordanismygod
30-06-2001, 09:53 PM
Funny, when i was younger, Spurs used to be my second best team.

No offense, but i just can't stand them now.

Bit of pointless information for you there!

Good luck to you anyway!

Palace
30-06-2001, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by markholmes1991


well said! a pint heading your way

Cheers, but could i have two halfs. I find that with a pint the taste is no where near as good as that first couple of sips, than at the bottom of the glass. By having two halfs you enjoy that same amazing taste, TWICE!!

That is of course, unless you drink more than one pint full stop, which is more common than just one in most cases, in which case you get the flavour over and over and over!


I think i went a bit off the point there. :D

Brett
30-06-2001, 11:36 PM
Sorry Dan, I cant see it myself.

Andrii or Andriy (as it can and should both be spelt in Ukrainian) is one of the top twp finishers in the game alongside Raul of Real Madrid.

A goalscorer makes and breaks a team in Serie A, and unless Milan are in serious financial danger (which I doubt with Senor Berlosconi there) then I cant see them letting him go.

I doubt Shevchenko would entertain the thought of coming to the relative backwater (in terms of skill) of England, prefering to stay in Italy. Indeed the only non Italian club that I could see 'pulling' Shevchenko would be Real Madrid.

And any transfer bidding would start at £45M minimum for a player of his class in the current financial climate.

Daniel_Nash
30-06-2001, 11:40 PM
Brett, no offence, but did you read the article? It says he wants to move to England.

"He has made it clear he would jump at the chance to play in the Premiership and, in particular, alongside Rebrov."

Spurs have the money and they have Rebrov... but they aren't a top team anymore.

We'll see.

Brett
30-06-2001, 11:47 PM
Doesnt quote Andrii...

I guess his agent is negotiating a new contract with Milan...

Daniel_Nash
01-07-2001, 04:50 AM
Spurs have said "no comment" on the story.

Steve in Phoenix
01-07-2001, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
[B]Although Shevchenko would still cost a fortune in fees and wages, Enic's billionaire founder, Joe Lewis, is intent on making a success of Tottenham and the new owners were yesterday preparing to unveil Liverpool's Christian Ziege as their latest signing, joining Teddy Sheringham, Gus Poyet and the defender Goran Bunjevcevic.

Shevchenko has scored 24 goals in each of his two seasons in Serie A since moving to Milan from Dynamo Kiev for £16m.

Sorry Dan, I cant see it happening.. His price was 16m BEFORE those two 24 goal seasons. If Milan wanted to sell him, I think his price would start at 25m at the least.. pretty tough for Spurs. Also he's "unhappy" and it implies its because Milan are not successful.. would the promise of playing with Rebrov be enough to lure him.. I doubt it.. especially with many people saying Rebrov made a mistake..and Campbell's well publicised departure..too many reasons against it.. like Brett I think this is more his agent's work.

If you did sign him would that be the Famous Five re-enacted? :p

Sheringham, Anderton, Klinsmann, Barmby and who was the other? Dumi or that class Romanian defender
could be..
Sheri, Rebrov, Shev, Ziege, Bunny.

Daniel_Nash
01-07-2001, 05:13 AM
The price quoted is £30m.

The Romanian defender was Gica Popescu, the Gooner Buster, after scoring the winner in a 2-1 win :) Was sold to Barcelona and now at Turkish side Galatosseray

zonin2000
01-07-2001, 05:28 AM
I will believe this when (and IF !!) it happens.. however, this is football and anything can happen :). This would be the signing of the Millenium for any English team! Shevchenko is one of the top five players in the world in my opinion and would single handedly make Spurs a force in English football again. Would score 30 goals, sell loads of shirts, help attract top class players and generally make spurs a better team. Really though, I think that only Man Utd would be the only English team able to attract him. If this article had been in a tabloid I wouldn't have given it a second look but with it being in the Guardian I think it can be taken a little more seriously. The advantages for Spurs are that they are in London, have a well respected manager (in Glenda's case I think he is more respected abroad than he is here, I'm sure all disabled people would be able to explain that one) and that they already have Sergei Rebrov. What a team it would make!

Sullivan
Carr Bunny King Thatcher
Sherwood
Anderton Poyet
Sheringham
Rebrov Shevchenko

WOW!
Would be an incredible coup for Spurs and Enic. I sincerely hope he does go to Spurs but seriously doubt it. I hope I'm wrong. Good luck Tottingham.

Daniel_Nash
01-07-2001, 05:35 AM
I think i'd need a tissue to mop my excitement up if it happened

Marco
01-07-2001, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
Brett, no offence, but did you read the article? It says he wants to move to England.

"He has made it clear he would jump at the chance to play in the Premiership and, in particular, alongside Rebrov."

Spurs have the money and they have Rebrov... but they aren't a top team anymore.

We'll see.

How many times have we heard big players saying they would like to play in england, but rarely do they ever go, unless they're over 30 that is and want to have an easy couple of years before they retire....

I somehow cant see Shevchenko leaving Milan. Why would you want to leave a great club who is in the UEFA cup next year and will again be challenging for the Scudetto, and go to a clb like Spurs which quite frankly isn't in any european competition and don't look like going there either.

Anyway £30 million is a pityful bid, I'm sure Milan would laugh straight in Spurs' face if they did bid that. I mean they've signed Javi Moreno from Alaves, and just yesterday they signed Andrea Pirlo from Inter for around £12 million, so why sell their top scorer when with him they're stirke force will be incredible next season, as long as they can get rid of Bierhoff.
Oh and they're midfield, Ambrosini, Gattuso, Albertini, Zennoni, Donati, that is incredible!!! Milan should have a really good chance of winning the scudetto next season, then again in Serie A you never know what can happen...

Steve in Phoenix
01-07-2001, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Marco
How many times have we heard big players saying they would like to play in england, but rarely do they ever go, unless they're over 30 that is and want to have an easy couple of years before they retire....

I somehow cant see Shevchenko leaving Milan. Why would you want to leave a great club who is in the UEFA cup next year.

Oh and they're midfield, Ambrosini, Gattuso, Albertini, Zennoni, Donati, that is incredible!!! Milan should have a really good chance of winning the scudetto next season, then again in Serie A you never know what can happen...

1. Patrick Vieira, Thierry Henry, Dennis Bergkamp, Marc Overmars, Kanu, Manny Petit, Jaap Stam, Pierluigi Casiraghi, Di Matteo, Markus Babbel, Ziege, Sergei Rebrov, Albert Ferrer, most probably Juan Veron too.. do I need to go on?

I agree that Shev wont be leaving Milan, they would be very stupid to let him go. As for why would he want to leave - perhaps for a team that could win the Champions League and not one that isnt even in the competition.

PS That midfield dont impress me much. Albertini is past it, Gattuso is nothing but a hatchetman and Ambrosini is wafer thin. These days every top European club team has an impressive list of players.. the key is how they play as a team.

Daniel_Nash
01-07-2001, 10:32 PM
I can see alot of players leaving Spain and Italy because they don't want to be caught up in the witch hunt over passports... its obviously pished Veron off a lot and Recoba is about to be screwed over by it so why shouldn't other players want to leave to escape.

Another thing, drug use is rampant in Serie A, even if it is in the "food they eat"... and the authorities are getting hot at detecting people: Davids, Couto. Again high profile players might not want that extra hassle.

Plus the English game provides them with 10% more money after tax than the nearest other league. Footballers only pay 30% where as in Germany its 40% and Italy and Spain between 30 and 50%

Marco
01-07-2001, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Patrick Vieira Hes been trained up in england, now hes become a decent player and is going back to Italy to prove whether hes a great player or not.
Thierry Henry Failed to impress at Juventus and they porbably were wrong to sell him, hes stil lyoung, I'm sure he'll go back to Italy soon.
Dennis Bergkamp Completely failed at Inter, came to England and hes classed as some sort of world calss palyer, that seems to say something...
Marc Overmars He stayed for a long time...
Kanu If Inter sold him after spending all that money on hi mtrying to get him fit it means theres something still wrong with him.
Manny Petit Money grabbber, went to Barca now hes back to get more money, still a poor player.
Jaap Stam Most over rated defender ever
Pierluigi Casiraghi lol, he was great, again proves my point, was past it in Italy came to england to have a relaxing last few years but couldn't due to bad luck
Di Matteo See Casiraghi apart fro mthe fact that he didnt get injured.
Markus Babbel Left an equally poor German league to come to the Premiership...
Ziege Didn't do much at Milan so he got sold to Boro
Sergei Rebrov Shevagols' sidekick, not that great after all.
Albert Ferrer Not exactly the best player in the world now is he?
most probably Juan Veron too.. Ah well, I guess now hes not gonna be banned he might stay at Lazio, then again he has to move clubs every two years so he may well go to Man U.

do I need to go on? Yes please feel free to carry on... ;)
[/B]

Steve in Phoenix
01-07-2001, 11:43 PM
Bergkamp is a world class player mate, those 40 goals in 80 games for Holland arent easy to ignore but I can see you're trying.

Casiraghi and Di Matteo were both current and respected Italian internationals under 30 when they left Serie A for the Premiership. You're talking like they were 35 and retiring which isnt the case.

Overmars - 5 years or so seems like quite a reasonably long time these days

Stam - Funny how every Serie A team wanted him.. he snubs them and now he's "overrated"? Well he has a Champions League gold medal for such an overrated player..

Rebrov was pretty hot property and probably got more transfer enquiries while in Ukraine.. Not as good as Shevchenko but is there shame in that?

Ziege and Babbel are big name German internationals. I thought that was the point of this. Big name players under 30 that want to play in England

I included Ferrer as a Spanish international, Barca fan favorite. Did I claim he was the best player in the world?

As for Vieira, Henry and Kanu.. it smacks more of more poor management at their respective Italian clubs that they did not fulfil their potential. For example Henry was mostly played at wing. I hear Trezeguet is likely to leave for the same reasons.

Petit is a money grabber.. what does that have to do with it? Doesnt change the fact he plays for the world and euro champions and is wanted by pretty much every club. He picked an English one.

Marco
01-07-2001, 11:55 PM
Fair enough I tried my best, but I still think that the Premiership is very over rated compared to the Spanish league and Serie A, most of the big names in the Premiership are rejects from the other leagues who want to end their careers in an easy league like Vialli, Festa, Karembeau, Boksic, Padovano, etc...

Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
As for Vieira, Henry and Kanu.. it smacks more of more poor management at their respective Italian clubs that they did not fulfil their potential. For example Henry was mostly played at wing. I hear Trezeguet is likely to leave for the same reasons.


That may have been bad management but Trezeguet is certainly not leaving Juventus, sadly, Pippo Inzaghi was dropped in favour of Trezeguet and since Inzaghi is leaving Juventus I cant see him leaving, he'll certainly be in for a shout at top scorer next season.

Just heard rumours that Vincenzo Montella may join Man Utd in some sort of swap for Dwight Yorke, now that would be a good signing, and would disprove my point.....

Daniel_Nash
02-07-2001, 12:41 AM
Sorry for raising the point of anything to do with Spurs, it has come to my attention that this is not welcomed... i apologise and won't post any such information again, even if it is on "World of Football".

Happy now?

Palace
02-07-2001, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
Sorry for raising the point of anything to do with Spurs, it has come to my attention that this is not welcomed... i apologise and won't post any such information again, even if it is on "World of Football".

Happy now?

No mate, are more than welcome as i said before. It is just a few people not mentioning any names eagles fan who perhaps are so in love with palace that they cant bare to talk about any other club. This i very much doubt. It isnt as though everyone is disregarding this issue because they are actually talkin about it at least!

Your thoughts on Spurs are welcome from where i am standing, even if noone else thinks the same!

Brett
02-07-2001, 03:17 AM
Have to go with Marco over Steve (who is talking boll0cks).

The only players of any real calibre to come to England in the past have been Stam and Kanu.

The top country is still Italy, ahead of Spain, while England lies back in third place.

We are catching up slowly, and on the bright side, we are miles ahead of the crap Bundesliga.

Benzhiyi
02-07-2001, 03:48 AM
Just to give Daniel a bit of support, I am a Spurs fan and think Shevchenko would be our best signing in years.

And yes, I am also a Palace season ticket holder. It's a long story which i have explained before...

Steve in Phoenix
02-07-2001, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by Brett
Have to go with Marco over Steve (who is talking boll0cks).

The only players of any real calibre to come to England in the past have been Stam and Kanu.

The top country is still Italy, ahead of Spain, while England lies back in third place.

We are catching up slowly, and on the bright side, we are miles ahead of the crap Bundesliga.

Brett - would you like to explain just how I am talking boll0cks ? Every one of my points is fully backed up and correct. For example - Bergkamp's 40 goals in 80 internationals. Is that boll0cks? I dont think so.

Did you miss the wave of French internationals? Who just happen to play for the world and european champions? Or that the European champions came from the "crap Bundesliga" ?

There are several ways to define the 'top country'. Spain is clearly dominating Europe now where Italy have been pitiful. England is also ahead of Italy again in both terms of money and achievements, both past and current. They recently overtook Italy in total number of European competitions won I believe. 27-26. Or you can look at the club rankings.

In any case if you didnt notice - I wasnt actually entering into that argument. I was simply countering that there were quite a few big name players under 30 who want to play in England and do, contrary to Marco's statement.

Gooders
02-07-2001, 06:56 AM
Hey, come on guys, no need for a bunfight.

Daniel - I don't know exactly why you have decided that your views are not welcome - from where I sit it is entirely agreeable to see what fans of other London teams are thinking without the arrogant **** that most of the Charlton Pathetic fans are constantly coming up with... "we'll never play you again" etc. Your views are most welcome mate.

From where I sit, the Spanish and Italian leagues are still much easier on the eye than the Premier and as long as there are teams like Charlton, Southampton, Derby, Bolton and Leicester in our top league, we could never claim to be number one.

German football is, and always has been, very, very dull.

Sorry Ruediger.

Marco
02-07-2001, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
There are several ways to define the 'top country'. Spain is clearly dominating Europe now where Italy have been pitiful. England is also ahead of Italy again in both terms of money and achievements, both past and current. They recently overtook Italy in total number of European competitions won I believe. 27-26. Or you can look at the club rankings.


You're quite right about the Eureopean competitions won as England overtook Italy by one when Arsenal won the UEFA Cup.
What I can't understand is how you can say England is ahead of Italy in terms of money and chievements. In terms of achievements they are about equal, unless you count the 3 world cups Italy have won against the 1 which england cheated to win. As for the money, where exactly you've got this I really don't know :confused:
Anyway, if you're looking at recent history Italy has easily been ahead of England.
Lets look at the last 13 years.
Champions' League: 9 out of the past 13 seasons' finals an Italian club has been involved i nthe final, meanwhile only once in 13 years has an english club been in the final.

UEFA Cup: 10 out of the past 13 finals an Italian club has been involved (4 of which were all Italian finals), meanwhile only twice in the past 13 years has an english club been involved.

Liverpool winning the UEFA Cup was the first time an english club won the competition since 1984, while when Man U won the Champions' League it was the first time an English club won it since 1982. Now compare Italian clubs not doing so well for a couple of seasons to two decades of absence from Europe and you'll see Italy still have the upper hand.

Daniel_Nash
02-07-2001, 08:55 PM
Thanks, the matter has been resolved now :)

Sky has German footy on next year, oh well :o

He has 108 goals in 184 games :eek: :eek: :eek: and would be most welcome on the turf of the Lane.

A dutch news site has the story too.. it is in Dutch though.

Shevchenko History (http://www.viplanet.nl/show?id=477308&dbid=17240)

Brett
03-07-2001, 02:02 AM
Bergkamp failed in Italy StevePhoenix.

A lot of his Holland goals have come against such as San Marino, South Korea etc, but he is impressive for the Dutch still because they play a different team game which suits him.

Bergkamp is still nowhere near the all time GREAT Dutch striker, Marco Van Basten.

And what of the French? Petit was sublime in Prem FC, yet systematically failed at Barcelona (as has Overmars).

Henry failed at Juventus and they couldnt wait to get shot of him after only SIX MONTHS. He was also but a bit player in WC98.

Patrick Vieira was an unmitigated failure at Milan, and has resurrected the vast potential that he showed at Cannes in the vastly inferior Prem FC.

Marcel Desailly is no longer the force of the French National team and this explains why Milan were so keen to offload him, and other Serie A teams were so un-willing to make him an offer.

Franck LeBouef is a laughing stock even in his own country, and France have always preferred to stick the elderly Laurent Blanc in their backline rather than the un-impressive LeBouef.

And remember, the players who actually have made the French into what they are have NOT been anywhere near Prem FC. Zidane, Thuram, Lizarazu, Dugarry.

The players have come into England with battered reputations or are 'over the hill'.

Bayern were very lucky this season in the Champions League, considering the overrall shortfall in quality of the competition.

Most of the major clubs have been going through transition this season, whilst Bayern have hit a peak of form and stability.

I dont expect a great increase in quality next season, and if ever Bayern are to retain the Champions League it HAS to be next season, because I expect Inter to have a big shout in the following season under the guidance of Cuper.

With regards to your comment about big-name players under 30 WANTING to play in England (who have NOT failed), I fail to see how you can justify this remark.

Until Prem FC can start poaching players under 25 from Italy who are PROVEN, then Serie will always be streets ahead.

And so it should be whilst our game is still based on 'Basketball' non-sense...

Daniel_Nash
03-07-2001, 02:35 AM
The English game may be inferior but the tempo of the games and excitment levels are second to none in my opinon.

Italian football is so boring to watch at times, its a defensive style.

Spanish football is outrageously attacking. Some damn weird things happen and there always seems to be some weird last minute event. But you always see the top 3 or 4 teams winning.

German football is quite dull to be fair, only teams like Hertha, Bayern and Schalke ever are in a position to dominate.

French football is pretty poor IMO because it is too commercial and the league is a breeding ground for players before they move on, so the quality improves and then the players leave.

Belgium and Holland is dominated by the Anderlecht, Standard - Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord's and the littler teams are always competing for 3rd spot.

But it seems in the English league, be this a comment on the overall quality of the teams or not, that the top teams are always able to lose to the lower teams and it happens regularly. It's not really a surprise when Man U get turned over by us (Last day 3-1) or when Arsenal lose to Southampton because on their day the teams can be equal.

I was watching that "Football Stories" on 4 tonight and Arse*e Wen**r said that it is entirely possible he could take his team if 11 internationals to Carlisle, bottom of division 2 at the time, and he could lose. He knew this.

That's what makes the league so good compared to others. The results aren't always predictable... the anxiety in the fans is brilliant, you can go to a game and not know what will happen, i love that ! It would be pretty bad to turn up knowing "ah yes, we'll win today" and go home again having been proved right. What is there to discuss when that happens??

zonin2000
03-07-2001, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Brett
Bergkamp is still nowhere near the all time GREAT Dutch striker, Marco Van Basten. Nobody said he was. Just because you are not as good as Zidane doesn't mean you are not a world class player.

Henry failed at Juventus (as a winger) and they couldnt wait to get shot of him after only SIX MONTHS(I bet they'd love him back now!). He was also but a bit player in WC98(still managed to be their top scorer, and was one of their best players in a better team that won Euro2000).

Franck LeBouef is a laughing stock even in his own country, and France have always preferred to stick the elderly Laurent Blanc in their backline rather than the un-impressive LeBouef. You are the first person to bring Le Boeuf into this argument. Serie A also has its fair share of **** players.

And remember, the players who actually have made the French into what they are have NOT been anywhere near Prem FC. Zidane, Thuram, Lizarazu, Dugarry. I think you could include Barthez and Desailly (the only decent centerback to play in the World Cup final.

I expect Inter to have a big shout in the following season under the guidance of Cuper. A manager going to manage Inter is the same as a footballer going to play for Wolves.

And so it should be whilst our game is still based on 'Basketball' non-sense... yes, all that full court press, pick and roll and zonal deeeeefense.

Marco
03-07-2001, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
But it seems in the English league, be this a comment on the overall quality of the teams or not, that the top teams are always able to lose to the lower teams and it happens regularly. It's not really a surprise when Man U get turned over by us (Last day 3-1) or when Arsenal lose to Southampton because on their day the teams can be equal.

I was watching that "Football Stories" on 4 tonight and Arse*e Wen**r said that it is entirely possible he could take his team if 11 internationals to Carlisle, bottom of division 2 at the time, and he could lose. He knew this.

That's what makes the league so good compared to others. The results aren't always predictable... the anxiety in the fans is brilliant, you can go to a game and not know what will happen, i love that ! It would be pretty bad to turn up knowing "ah yes, we'll win today" and go home again having been proved right. What is there to discuss when that happens??

But doesn't that just show the poor quality of the Premiership. Anyway Man U always win it with 5 or 6 games before the end...

Compare that to Serie A where 7 (next year 6 if Fiorentina don't clear their debt probem) teams constantly challenge for the title with the scudetto having been decided on the last day for the past 3 years, 2 of which saw the team in second place go and win the title.

You may call Serie A boring but which games ahve you seen that were this boring? Is it a crime that teams can actually defend and attack?

Brett
03-07-2001, 02:56 AM
Hardly what you call factual, mere bias opinions Zonin...

I would have put Djourkaeff, Zidane and Vieira way above Henry's showing at Euro2000 - but then, what do I know?

LeBouef - Well I was asked about the 'wave' of French Internationals...

Henry was played as a winger AND centre forward for Juventus...

Bergkamp failed in Italy...

Sorry about the dig at Prem FC - I should have said Tennis...

Daniel_Nash
03-07-2001, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by Marco


But doesn't that just show the poor quality of the Premiership. Anyway Man U always win it with 5 or 6 games before the end...

Compare that to Serie A where 7 (next year 6 if Fiorentina don't clear their debt probem) teams constantly challenge for the title with the scudetto having been decided on the last day for the past 3 years, 2 of which saw the team in second place go and win the title.

You may call Serie A boring but which games ahve you seen that were this boring? Is it a crime that teams can actually defend and attack?

"But it seems in the English league, be this a comment on the overall quality of the teams or not" - i thought i had covered the poor quality argument? Maybe i was wrong.

6 or 7 teams.. so.. Juve, Inter, Milan, Lazio, Roma, Fiorentina and.. Parma? Man U, Leeds, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool.. not that far behind. They could all challenge.

You want me to name games?? come on, as if i could. I have the memory of a ******** fish. I don't think i said attack and defend, we all associate Italian football with having "the best defenders in the world", never the attackers. The only reason the Italian league has good strikers, in my view, is because the clubs are so rich (PPV TV deals add to this) that they can pay £16m for the Shevchenkos, £35m for the Crespos, they can get the Batistuta's and the Trezeguets. Fair enough Italy has some decent strikers.. Totti, Inzaghi, Montella (when he can play for Roma!!) but on the whole i would say that the defences are italian and the attacks tend to be from other countries.

Marco
03-07-2001, 03:09 AM
Zonin, Serie A may have its fair share of **** players but most of them dont start for one of the main teams and aren't seen as top international players.....

Anyway Cuper is a very good manager, and it looks like he may well do a good job at Inter. We could easily see a revolution at Inter by Cuper, it all depends if Moratti lets him do what he wants ro if he'll continue to rule. The reason for Inter's failures is just that Moratti wants to achieve what his father did, and sadly hes going about it the wrong way by just spending money all the time. I mean he just sold Andrea Pirlo for £13 million to Milan, who in Pirlo have got an absolute bargian! Massimo Moratti was put at Inter by the Moratti family as it was the business he could do the least damage at, just makes you wonder how much they must make from their other companies...

Daniel_Nash
03-07-2001, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by Marco
The reason for Inter's failures is just that Moratti wants to achieve what his father did

Massimo Moratti was put at Inter by the Moratti family as it was the business he could do the least damage at, just makes you wonder how much they must make from their other companies...

What did his father do?
and what companies do they own?

Are Juve backed by Fiat??

(Just asking, i have no idea)

Marco
03-07-2001, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
Totti, Inzaghi, Montella (when he can play for Roma!!) but on the whole i would say that the defences are italian and the attacks tend to be from other countries.

And the top strikers in England are of what nationality? Hasselbaink, Henry and Mark Viduka, not english, but that compares to the Shevchenko, Crespo, Batistuta in Italy, just that if you told me which ones I'd have in my team I'd chose Shevchenko, Crespo and Batigol becuase they're of a much higher quality. Just proves that Serie A is better and able to attract the better players. Which goes back to the original point ofthethread which is that Shevchenko would never move to England.

Oh and a nice quote from Iversen's agent, Erik Soler: "I have heard nothing about it. To me it sounds completely untrue. Why would Shevchenko be interested in joining a club that finished 12th in the Premiership last season?"

Marco
03-07-2001, 03:33 AM
His father was the chairman of Inter back in the days when they actually won titles and were seen as a great club unlike now.

Not sure excatly what companies they own but thats how the story goes.

And yes, Juve are owned by the Agnelli brothers who own FIAT. They're probably the most respected family in football, they're the ones with the power. Even if Berlusconi is prime minister they'll probably still have more power than him in football.
Sad as it is to say it, unlike the various Cragnotti, Sensi, Tanzi, etc, the Agnellis areprobably the only poeple in Italian football who are not there to make money out of it directly. If course they make sure Juve makes a profit but they just don't need to make that much money out of them as they already make enough as it is with Fia, etc...

zonin2000
03-07-2001, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by Brett
Hardly what you call factual, mere bias opinions Zonin

But it is mostly going to be biased opinion because it is very difficult to quantify most of the criteria used in this argument. Your ideas as to what constitutes a "good" leagu are probably different to Marco's, Daniel's and mine. So it is just a big opinion. Fact tells us that a German team won the Champions League and an English team won the UEFA cup, while Italy has the 'richest' league in terms of turnover (I'm guessing on that one).

Daniel_Nash
03-07-2001, 04:14 AM
Originally posted by Marco


And the top strikers in England are of what nationality? Hasselbaink, Henry and Mark Viduka, not english

I forgot they finished top of the scoring charts. I thought Marcus Stewart was. He's English. I also thought the season before Kevin Phillips scored 30 premisership goals. English. Also, Michael Owen scored 2 in the FA Cup final. English.

Steve in Phoenix
03-07-2001, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by Brett
Bergkamp failed in Italy StevePhoenix.

A lot of his Holland goals have come against such as San Marino, South Korea etc, but he is impressive for the Dutch still because they play a different team game which suits him.

Bergkamp is still nowhere near the all time GREAT Dutch striker, Marco Van Basten.


Bergkamp may have had one and a half bad seasons with Inter but he has succeeded at a higher level. 40 goals in 79 international games should earn anyone's respect. To say "a lot of them have come against San Marino and South Korea" is pointless. Its the same for every player - its not like Bergkamp gets to play these teams more than anyone else.

Marco van Basten was incredible, yet he managed only 24 in 60 internationals. By that standard Bergkamp is pretty good. Im not saying he's the best player ever, but he deserves respect and to slag him off for 18 nightmare months at one club is wide of the mark.

To credit Dugarry as being one of the architects of France's greatness is kind of hard when he has scored only 7 in 44 games. What does that make Wiltord and Henry who probably have scored twice that? The 'wave' I refer to includes players such as Pires (Zidane's heir-apparent) Wiltord, Henry, Barthez, Dalmat.. you have half of the best team in the world there.

Everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to it and there are multiple discussions going on here which is causing misinterpretation.

Steve in Phoenix
03-07-2001, 04:54 AM
Top 25 Clubs. The numbers would indicate Serie A, Premiership and La Liga clubs are all fairly close, with La Liga the only one to show an edge.

UEFA Club rankings

1 Real Madrid Esp
2 Manchester United Eng
3 Bayern München Ger
4 FC Barcelona Esp
5 Lazio Roma Ita
6 Valencia Esp
7 Juventus Ita
8 Internazionale Ita
9 Atletico Madrid Esp
10 AC Parma Ita
11 AS Monaco Fra
12 Arsenal Eng
Chelsea Eng
14 Liverpool Eng
15 Borussia Dortmund Ger
16 Galatasaray Tur
17 Celta de Vigo Esp
18 FC Porto Por
19 AS Roma Ita
20 Leeds United Eng
21 Olympique Lyon Fra
22 Deportivo La Coruña Esp
23 Spartak Moscow Rus
24 Real Mallorca Esp
25 1.FC Kaiserslautern Ger

5 English teams 5 Italian 7 Spanish

ESPN World Club rankings

Club Country Points Last Week
1. Bayern Munich Germany 323.16 1
2. Boca Juniors Argentina 319.23 3
3. Real Madrid Spain 308.13 2
4. Manchester United England 280.45 4
5. Liverpool England 270.19 5
6. Vasco da Gama Brazil 265.14 6
7. Valencia Spain 261.91 7
8. AS Roma Italy 260.15 8
9. Deportivo La Coruña Spain 248.93 9
10. River Plate Argentina 248.37 10
11. Cruzeiro Brazil 246.13 11
12. PSV Netherlands 245.13 12
13. Leeds United England 244.90 13
14. Arsenal England 242.54 14
15. Lazio Italy 227.65 15
16. San Lorenzo Argentina 226.27 16
17. Cruz Azul Mexico 224.29 17
18. Nantes France 223.38 18
19. Juventus Italy 223.23 19
20. Celtic Scotland 217.92 20
21. Barcelona Spain 214.50 21
22. Palmeiras Brazil 212.97 22
23. America Colombia 208.28 23
24. Anderlecht Belgium 199.26 24
25. FC Porto Portugal 198.49 25

4 English 3 Italian 4 Spanish

Si121
03-07-2001, 05:30 AM
Spurs have the richest chairman in football apparently. 2 billions pounds he has which over 3 times the amount Mohammed Al Fayed has. I think. Obviously he won't spend this much but I'm sur he'll be prepared to make Spurs a winning team.

Gooders
03-07-2001, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by Marco

In terms of achievements they are about equal, unless you count the 3 world cups Italy have won against the 1 which england cheated to win.

Grow up, Marco.

I hardly think it's the players fault if a linesman made a mistake.

And I don't think English footballers need lectures from an Italian about cheating.

Marco
03-07-2001, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Originally posted by Marco
Grow up, Marco.

I hardly think it's the players fault if a linesman made a mistake.

And I don't think English footballers need lectures from an Italian about cheating.

I'm not talking about the final, people make mistakes fair enough, I'm talking more about playing all your games at Wembley and the referee of the Brazil game...

Anyway nearly all of the world cups and european championships are fixed (not directly) by the host nation, and if they fail to win it its quite an embatrassment if they don't win it.
Take Italy in 1990. The semi final game against Argentina. The preseident of the Italian FA was asked which referee he wanted to referee the semi between Italy and Argentina, but not being the cleverest of people he chose the one who had bad relations with the Italian FA and had been in some sort of dispute with them in the past, while the other referee was ok and would have caused no problems. Last ten minutes Maradona gets anywhere near the penalty area players foul him referee might not see it, but because the wrong ref was chosen this didnt happen, and we all know the outcome of the 3/4 place play off, which I think Italy won over another country whos name escapes me now :D


Oh and Daniel, I wasnt saying they were the top scorers ecause Stewart did finish first I think, but I'm just saying like Italy has Batigol,, Crespo, Shechenko, England also has its Henry, Viduka, Hasselbaink. Its not like the strikers in england are purely English, because Italy also has its Italian strikers in Montella, Delvecchio, Inzaghi, Rossini, Chiesa, Di Vaio, etc.

Daniel_Nash
03-07-2001, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Si121
Spurs have the richest chairman in football apparently. 2 billions pounds he has which over 3 times the amount Mohammed Al Fayed has. I think. Obviously he won't spend this much but I'm sur he'll be prepared to make Spurs a winning team.

Joe Lewis. He is super rich.

Brett
03-07-2001, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Bergkamp may have had one and a half bad seasons with Inter but he has succeeded at a higher level. 40 goals in 79 international games should earn anyone's respect. To say "a lot of them have come against San Marino and South Korea" is pointless. Its the same for every player - its not like Bergkamp gets to play these teams more than anyone else.

I didnt 'slag' Bergkamp off. HE FAILED IN ITALY.

Marco van Basten was incredible, yet he managed only 24 in 60 internationals. By that standard Bergkamp is pretty good. Im not saying he's the best player ever, but he deserves respect and to slag him off for 18 nightmare months at one club is wide of the mark.

But how many goals did Van Basten score for Milan in Serie A - which is world reknowned for its ultra defensive mentality?

To credit Dugarry as being one of the architects of France's greatness is kind of hard when he has scored only 7 in 44 games. What does that make Wiltord and Henry who probably have scored twice that? The 'wave' I refer to includes players such as Pires (Zidane's heir-apparent) Wiltord, Henry, Barthez, Dalmat.. you have half of the best team in the world there.

Your arguments with regards to goals show up your argument. Dugarry is not a goalscorer, more of a creator and spends his time on the pitch alternating between Zidane, Djourkaeff and the forward when playing for France.
Try watching some games, might help your argument.

To compare Pires and Zidane is stupid. Zidane is almost on a level to Platini; what has Pires achieved?

Dalmat? He hasnt even played competetively for France yet...

Marco
03-07-2001, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Doesnt quote Andrii...

I guess his agent is negotiating a new contract with Milan...
Congratulations Brett you win tonights star price, as in fact Shevchenko has just signed a new contract which ties him to Milan until 2006.

Looks like Milan are creating quite an amzing team. Up front they can chose from Javi Moreno, Shevchenko and new signing Pippo Inzaghi, and behind them they're able to play either Rui Costa (who seems to have signed for them) or Andrea Pirlo (who they recently bought) in the role of fantasista.
They've already got a great midfield, all they need is some good defenders and they're sorted.

Riccardo
04-07-2001, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Marco

Looks like Milan are creating quite an amzing team. Up front they can chose from Javi Moreno, Shevchenko and new signing Pippo Inzaghi, and behind them they're able to play either Rui Costa (who seems to have signed for them) or Andrea Pirlo (who they recently bought) in the role of fantasista.
They've already got a great midfield, all they need is some good defenders and they're sorted.

We'll p@ss all over them if they come to Selhurst ! :p

Daniel_Nash
04-07-2001, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by Riccardo


We'll p@ss all over them if they come to Selhurst ! :p

Maybe, but they will hammer you in the game and then no one will come to Selhurst because of the bizarre "Shower" incident.

beeltrystig
18-11-2007, 08:35 PM
I doubt it

Super-Ste-Cious
19-11-2007, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by beeltrystig
I doubt it

Wow such insight :rolleyes: