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Riccardo
22-06-2005, 02:54 PM
Something that has been nagging at the back of my mind since we got relegated at Charlton (oh, feels soooo good to type that) is what happened to Kolkka during the last 5 or so games of the season.

It seemed like he was the forgotten man of Selhurst. Was he lost in the mean back streets of South Norwood in his Citroen 2CV ? Perhaps he had a dodgy kebab at Planet Kebab, and just couldn't manage the last couple of games ?

It seemed like a lot of Palace fans started to forget him as well. It wasn't until about 10 minutes into the second half when I heard a voice along from me ask 'Where is that Kolkka bloke ?'. It seemed like the people around me in the crowd grew that "Ohhhh, yeah" stupid face.

It seems like we just forgot all about the poor bloke.


So what happened ??

SmithEagle
22-06-2005, 02:58 PM
Rumoured he had a falling out with Dowie and the coaches.

Diggers digs in?
22-06-2005, 02:59 PM
He's probably been locked in the toilet in the changing rooms at Selhurst for months but everyone's just forgotten about him. Poor guy.

boxing francis
22-06-2005, 02:59 PM
Ever since he got the rib injury he just fell out of Dowies plans. There could well have been an argument between Dowie and Kolkka which would explain his long absence.

It was a shame because we brought him back against Norwich and he scored within 5 minutes and then he fell out of the side again. IMO he should have been a starter whenever he was fit.

Phil's Barber
22-06-2005, 03:00 PM
He was taking his haircut back to 1986 were he got it.

GreatGonzo
22-06-2005, 03:01 PM
Apparently Kolkka believed that while he was injured he could just take them oney and work his way back as and when at which point he would slot straight back into the side.

Dowie was impressed and didn't feel he was trying to win his place back in the side!

Diggers digs in?
22-06-2005, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
Apparently Kolkka believed that while he was injured he could just take them oney and work his way back as and when at which point he would slot straight back into the side.

Dowie was impressed and didn't feel he was trying to win his place back in the side!

Dowie WAS impressed? :confused:

smileysmith
22-06-2005, 03:05 PM
Nevertheless the guy is class and should have been in the side. IMHO.

PhilD
22-06-2005, 03:23 PM
I think after the Norwich game Dowie decided that playing two wingers was a bit two gung ho and therefore Kolkka lost his place.

Adlerhorst
22-06-2005, 03:41 PM
Whole thing was nuts. First part of the season no one would pass to him. Just about gets settled and persuades people to pass to him and he gets injured and then hardly gets a look in.

The guy was one of the most talented players at the club, and great potential though Soares has (for central midfield), he will never be as good a left winger as Kolkka is.

Fine people will say he didn't track back as much as Soares did. Whatever - we still got relegated. Kolkka would have offered so much more going forward.

We never got the opportunity to see the real Kolkka, certainly not the one i used to see playing for PSV.

Would love him to stay but cannot see him wanting to - and Dowie's record with him would suggest that he is not that fussed either.

Angry Eagle
22-06-2005, 05:13 PM
I hope he features in the next season. The only problem is he does not seem to get the passes when he often gets into so much space that he could have his own post code. Don't the others like him or something.

cpfcinprem
22-06-2005, 09:33 PM
my mate who supports watford thought we sold him in january. when i told him the story he was shocked! i think he is a decent player and why dowie played soares on the left i will never understand. if he stays i'l be pleased, though if he does, will he play?

kolinkins
22-06-2005, 09:47 PM
When a senior player thinks he should automatically be selected ahead of a youngster just because of what he has achieved over the previous 8 years, and lets the manager, the young player involved and the whole squad know how he feels, he deserves to be frozen out. Even more so when he ignores instructions on the field of play.

Jay_Palace
22-06-2005, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by PhilD
I think after the Norwich game Dowie decided that playing two wingers was a bit two gung ho and therefore Kolkka lost his place.

Despite the fact that he scored a belting goal in that game? Hmmmm

Dowie got this one wrong in my book, a very poor use of an extremely talented player who would have made a difference. Playing Soares at left wing was madness and could have possibly harmed his development.

Is there a more sinister reason why Dowie overlooked Joonas, because for the good of the team leaving him out made no practical sense.

I'd love him to stay and play a big part for us, but I really can't see it and to be brutally honest, I don't blame him if he wants out.

boxing francis
22-06-2005, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
When a senior player thinks he should automatically be selected ahead of a youngster just because of what he has achieved over the previous 8 years, and lets the manager, the young player involved and the whole squad know how he feels, he deserves to be frozen out. Even more so when he ignores instructions on the field of play.

Even when this decision leads to the team being weaker than it should be and ultimately resulting in relegation?

Jay_Palace
22-06-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by boxing francis
Even when this decision leads to the team being weaker than it should be and ultimately resulting in relegation?

Exactly.

I don't care what he's like as a person, the fact is that he was a far better option at left wing than Tom Soares (who did nothing but look uncomfortable in a position that he is so clearly not suited for) and for reasons only known to Iain Dowie, he deemed it a better option to play an untested kid out of position, ahead of an internationaly proved left winger.

Dropping Kolkka after his performance against Norwich at Selhurst was one of the strangest tactical decisions last season, only topped by the genius of deciding that it was a better bet to play Darren Powellup front at the end of the game against Charlton, instead of Nicola Ventola.

There are certain facets of Dowie's managerial style that leave much to be desired, his apparent preference to attitude and heart over flair and class being one of them.

kolinkins
22-06-2005, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Jay_Palace


Dropping Kolkka after his performance against Norwich at Selhurst was one of the strangest tactical decisions last season, only topped by the genius of deciding that it was a better bet to play Darren Powellup front at the end of the game against Charlton, instead of Nicola Ventola.

Kolkka was dropped after an awful awful 45 minutes against Blackburn in the following match.

As for the Valley, I can see the merits in what Dowie wanted - someone to win some headers. Ventola wouldnt have done that.

Jimbo ?
22-06-2005, 10:20 PM
I like kolka - I would hope he has a selhurst future, but I do fear for him. he could be a key part of our team next season. very difficult to know what to think.

Jay_Palace
22-06-2005, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
Kolkka was dropped after an awful awful 45 minutes against Blackburn in the following match.

As for the Valley, I can see the merits in what Dowie wanted - someone to win some headers. Ventola wouldnt have done that.

Ok that's as maybe, but Dowie showed far more willingness to give Soares the benefit of a doubt and givehim chance after chance. Kolkka may well have had a stinker against Blackburn (who in the team played well that night?) but he is one of the few players in the squad who has the ability to change the game through a moment of brilliance. Soares was never going to offer that.

Kolkka could have contributed more, and Dowie prevented him from showing us what he could do. At the end of the day we lost out and it may have been different if we had been persereved with. It really angers me to see a player on our books so criminally underused. I felt the same way about Kaviedes.

kolinkins
22-06-2005, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Jay_Palace
Ok that's as maybe, but Dowie showed far more willingness to give Soares the benefit of a doubt and givehim chance after chance. Kolkka may well have had a stinker against Blackburn (who in the team played well that night?) but he is one of the few players in the squad who has the ability to change the game through a moment of brilliance. Soares was never going to offer that.

Kolkka could have contributed more, and Dowie prevented him from showing us what he could do. At the end of the day we lost out and it may have been different if we had been persereved with. It really angers me to see a player on our books so criminally underused. I felt the same way about Kaviedes.

Equally Kolkka playing might have meant we didnt pick as many points? It's all ifs and buts, but I feel in our position, we needed to be more solid. 2 out and out wingers would have meant earlier relegation I feel.

How many times did Kolkka change a game through a moment of brilliance?

I agree about Kaviedes though - I would rather have given him 18 games than Dougie.

dodge_bond
22-06-2005, 10:27 PM
kolka had his chance at the beginning of the season, soares had his at the end. soares will be a palace player for at least another 3years kolka wont, i would rather invest more time in a young talent than an older player who does not really have any need to tun up to work each day. my opinion.

Jay_Palace
22-06-2005, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by dodge_bond
kolka had his chance at the beginning of the season, soares had his at the end. soares will be a palace player for at least another 3years kolka wont, i would rather invest more time in a young talent than an older player who does not really have any need to tun up to work each day. my opinion.

Soares will be here for a long time to come, but his position will never be on the left wing. The fact that Kolkka's long term future/commitment at Palace was an issue of possible concern is irrelevent. He could have really added something to our attacking dimensions (Liverpool, anyone?) and the truth is that Soares made little or no contribution to our attacking impetus.

It's all ifs and buts, but in our position we had nothing to lose and should have been bolder on occasions. The defensive minded outlook, while perhaps delaying the inevitable relegation certainly ensured that we would make it extremelty difficult for ourselves.

But at the end of the day we were 8 minutes from survival? If our defence had done its job we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Football is the bitch of all bitches.

kolinkins
22-06-2005, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Jay_Palace
Soares will be here for a long time to come, but his position will never be on the left wing. The fact that Kolkka's long term future/commitment at Palace was an issue of possible concern is irrelevent. He could have really added something to our attacking dimensions (Liverpool, anyone?) and the truth is that Soares made little or no contribution to our attacking impetus.


Liverpool? We lost with him the side (yes he scored, but their subsequent goal was down to him, giving the free-kick away and then not defending it). Without him in the side, we beat them.

limited_edition
22-06-2005, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
Kolkka was dropped after an awful awful 45 minutes against Blackburn in the following match.

As for the Valley, I can see the merits in what Dowie wanted - someone to win some headers. Ventola wouldnt have done that. I still can't. An experienced Premiership team like Charlton aren't gonna fall for a central defender upfront. Naive beyond belief. But then it's hardly surprising. Hall was upfront v Boro late on & Pops came on late on v Blackburn. Sorry, but these tactics were idiotic and didn't work. Dowie didn't learn from his mistakes. Thank God we've now at least got someone with a tactical brain on the bench (McDonald).

As for Kolkka at Blackburn, everyone had a stinker at Ewood. 1 shot on target says it all. As for not following Dowie's instructions, Leggy couldn't when he let Kilbane steam past him at Goodison, he couldn't when he tried to leapfrog the Clowns winger for the fatal free kick. But then Leggy has heart and soul. And we all know heart and soul turns you into a Premiership player.

Velocity
22-06-2005, 11:36 PM
Statistically Soares wasn't as good defensively as Kolkka. And playing in an attacking role? I think we all know who was the best of the two.

Please stop trying to defend Soares' position in the team. If we wanted to knitpick there would be ample examples where Tom has given away pointless freekicks or goals.

Kolkka was dropped after an awful awful 45 minutes against Blackburn in the following match.

So how many other players got dropped this season for having a poor 45 minutes away from home? And as I recall, I don't remember a lot of players that game who had a terrific performance.

cpfc_spc1982
22-06-2005, 11:48 PM
watson was the only player to regularly pass to him.

glaziers fan
23-06-2005, 06:58 AM
As things stand, it's still Soares on the left next season in the CCC

Adlerhorst
23-06-2005, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by limited_edition
Sorry, but these tactics were idiotic and didn't work. Dowie didn't learn from his mistakes. Thank God we've now at least got someone with a tactical brain on the bench (McDonald).

This is precisely the point. Dowie is still tactically naive - lots of evidence of that last season. However he appears to recognise that and is getting someone in to help him on that side.

limited_edition
23-06-2005, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Adlerhorst
This is precisely the point. Dowie is still tactically naive - lots of evidence of that last season. However he appears to recognise that and is getting someone in to help him on that side. We could have done with McDonald last season.

sydnsteve
23-06-2005, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by kolinkins
Kolkka was dropped after an awful awful 45 minutes against Blackburn in the following match.

As for the Valley, I can see the merits in what Dowie wanted - someone to win some headers. Ventola wouldnt have done that.

On the basis of that match Kolinkins, we'd have had no players coming out for the next one.
Also, as far as the Liverpool game went, Kolkka didn't foul anyone, Baros scored 9.9 for the dive of the season.

Absolution
23-06-2005, 10:03 AM
The whole thing is a bit confusing although I did think Soares was superb for a young lad that not only had just broke the side but in one of the toughest leagues in the world... Kolkka did give us an edge at times earlier in the season but at the end even in the Norwich game he was quiet although he did score.

Beanie
23-06-2005, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by boxing francis
Even when this decision leads to the team being weaker than it should be and ultimately resulting in relegation?
Certainly - the decision may be wrong, but it is the manager decision. Player power only does harm to a club. You may disagree, you may voice your opinion (ID has said he has listened in the past) but ultimately you do as the manager asks. That's why managers get sacked when teams do badly, rarely players.

Malakite
23-06-2005, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Adlerhorst
Whole thing was nuts. First part of the season no one would pass to him. Just about gets settled and persuades people to pass to him and he gets injured and then hardly gets a look in.

The guy was one of the most talented players at the club, and great potential though Soares has (for central midfield), he will never be as good a left winger as Kolkka is.

Fine people will say he didn't track back as much as Soares did. Whatever - we still got relegated. Kolkka would have offered so much more going forward.

We never got the opportunity to see the real Kolkka, certainly not the one i used to see playing for PSV.

Would love him to stay but cannot see him wanting to - and Dowie's record with him would suggest that he is not that fussed either.

Good post. It used to wind me up something chronic when he would make great space for himself then never EVER get the ball...sooo frustrating for me watching, I cannot begin to even imagine how he must have felt!

LeeH
23-06-2005, 10:52 AM
I have always been a massive Kollka fan, and think that his exclusion from the squad for a large chunk of last season was a big loss. I only hope he stays and proves that he is worthy of a chance in the first team on a regular basis.

Baron Greenback
23-06-2005, 11:00 AM
I thought the team looked so much more balanced when he played last season. Really hope he stays. He'd be quality in the CCC.

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
23-06-2005, 11:06 AM
Would love him to stay and play a big role next year but I just can't see it :sob:

heinz 57
23-06-2005, 11:06 AM
We were basically playing four centre mids and one winger who would switch sides in order to be more solid. In the CCC we're much more likely to go back to 442 with two wingers and two strikers, and Kolkka is the best option for left wing by far. Soares has to play in the middle this season.

weh8millwall
23-06-2005, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Velocity
So how many other players got dropped this season for having a poor 45 minutes away from home?

Watson at Man City

Eric Young 83
23-06-2005, 04:28 PM
He was worth his signing for the laughter he gave me at Anfield, scores a great goal then gets booked for play acting!

orpington pisshead
23-06-2005, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by sydnsteve
On the basis of that match Kolinkins, we'd have had no players coming out for the next one.
Also, as far as the Liverpool game went, Kolkka didn't foul anyone, Baros scored 9.9 for the dive of the season.
Agree with this the whole out field team didn't turn up at blackburn away.:sob:, as for soares his future lies in centre midfield not on wing:rolleyes:

Velocity
24-06-2005, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by weh8millwall
Watson at Man City

No, the point I was trying to make was that if we dropped players who had poor 45 minute spells away from home, then we would have very few players left.

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/2331828

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/2203691

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/ng/sp/empics/765622

joe walker
24-06-2005, 04:53 PM
well at least this thread shows Joonas is not as forgotten as Mark Hudson

was last seen at old trafford in the Carling Cup, if I'm not mistaken

limited_edition
24-06-2005, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by joe walker
well at least this thread shows Joonas is not as forgotten as Mark Hudson

was last seen at old trafford in the Carling Cup, if I'm not mistaken Hudson played v Boro at home.

joe walker
24-06-2005, 05:35 PM
of course, yes

sorry

Eddie McGoldrick's tash
24-06-2005, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by cpfc_spc1982
watson was the only player to regularly pass to him.

Watson is our only midfielder who switches play

Absolution
24-06-2005, 05:55 PM
Watson has got the best pass in the team the rest of the team spent the season playing it down the right with Wayne

Ben H
25-06-2005, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by kolinkins
When a senior player thinks he should automatically be selected ahead of a youngster just because of what he has achieved over the previous 8 years, and lets the manager, the young player involved and the whole squad know how he feels, he deserves to be frozen out. Even more so when he ignores instructions on the field of play.

How do you know that happened?

Big Malcontent
25-06-2005, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by kolinkins

I agree about Kaviedes though - I would rather have given him 18 games than Dougie.

You are one lucky fecker. You spent the whole season slagging the Doog, and then he comes within a whisker of keeping us up.

kolinkins
25-06-2005, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Big Malcontent
You are one lucky fecker. You spent the whole season slagging the Doog, and then he comes within a whisker of keeping us up.

Thats the problem with Dougie lovers innit - 1 goal makes a fantastic player. He lived off Stockport for 4 years, and that Charlton goal would have given him another 4 years. What about his other inept 17 performances? Having said that, being in the Championship, I am glad he signed for another 2 seasons.

trufan
25-06-2005, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Absolution
Watson has got the best pass



From what I've heard, he's pretty good on the p*ss too. ;) :D


Allegedly.

boxing francis
25-06-2005, 12:10 PM
With the lack of movement on siging a left winger I think Kolkka may well stay. He would be excellent in the Championship.

Chief Brody
28-06-2005, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
As things stand, it's still Soares on the left next season in the CCC

I hope your opinion is entirely wrong, a complete waste of time and resources playing him wide left. I will be seriously questioning ID's tactical nous if he persists with this.

eagles #1
28-06-2005, 09:16 AM
If Kolkka is here, we should fecking well play him on the left next season! Not Soares.

WorthingEagle
28-06-2005, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by kolinkins
1 goal makes a fantastic player.

The other 94 help, too.