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View Full Version : The Misunderstanding of Macken


kolinkins
23-06-2005, 05:05 PM
This is really annoying me - why oh why are people calling him a target man / lump? He isnt. He is a proper footballer, a clever player (brighter than Dougie) and is in far more Dougie's mould of player than Ships.

There, feels much better.

23-06-2005, 05:08 PM
hes a great signing excellent champ player!!!

23-06-2005, 05:08 PM
if kuqi has signed isnt that 9 strikers :eek:

PhilD
23-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Agreed, he isn't a targetman, but I do think he's stronger and better at holding the ball up than Dougie.

Shipp Ahoy!
23-06-2005, 05:11 PM
+ He is amazing in Champ man :p

Sir.S.C Remembered
23-06-2005, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by PhilD
Agreed, he isn't a targetman, but I do think he's stronger and better at holding the ball up than Dougie.

Agreed. I do hope he can work on such attributes too as it is very useful to have a physically capable forward in divie 1

Jay_Palace
23-06-2005, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
This is really annoying me - why oh why are people calling him a target man / lump? He isnt. He is a proper footballer, a clever player (brighter than Dougie) and is in far more Dougie's mould of player than Ships.

There, feels much better.

He's a bit of both to be honest. He is a big build and is powerful, but to write him off as solely a Shipps type player is factually incorrect. He has a very good touch, good in the air and has a tremendous shot. He is also a very clever player, as you rightly point out. he is also extremely good at holding up the ball and laying it off for a quicker player. This is just the kind of player we needed.

I think that a few people on here are going to be eating their words when they see him play for us. He's a good player and we've got him at the right age. Jon macken with a point to prove will be a dangerous player next season.

Jim Cannon
23-06-2005, 05:36 PM
From what I saw of him when he was at Preston he was a class act. I think he was unfortunate in that he had a massive price tag at Man City and that may have made it tough for him.

Here's hoping he can settle at SE25!

Latvian Eagle
23-06-2005, 06:26 PM
Never held him as a "top line" player, but certainly wouldn't say he's bad. I think he's fairly good, certainly in the Championship anyway. The one signing of ours I have question marks over thus far is Darren Ward.

I know he's been voted Millwall player of the year two years in a row, but the Millwall supporters I know all say he's s**t.

Batsta
23-06-2005, 06:33 PM
Alan Partridge style...

"NO, NO, stop getting Macken wrong"

Jay_Palace
23-06-2005, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Never held him as a "top line" player, but certainly wouldn't say he's bad. I think he's fairly good, certainly in the Championship anyway. The one signing of ours I have question marks over thus far is Darren Ward.

I know he's been voted Millwall player of the year two years in a row, but the Millwall supporters I know all say he's s**t.

The Millwall supporters you've been talking to are talking rubbish. He's a class act and trust me, they are gutted that he's gone, especially to come to us.

eagles #1
23-06-2005, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
.
I know he's been voted Millwall player of the year two years in a row, but the Millwall supporters I know all say he's s**t. Think that's mainly jealousy. He'll win everything and i mean everything in the air....apparently.

Having said that, the majority of Wall fans i spoke too says his distribution is worse than Fitz and he'll get slaughtered by pace....lets hope it's just jealousy!

Del Martian
23-06-2005, 06:38 PM
Macken is a lot of ways resembles one Paul Stewart whom we acquired about 10 years ago and is also ex-City.
A very professional forward. I think he'll do well.

Latvian Eagle
23-06-2005, 06:39 PM
Actually Eagles #1 they said he was s**t long before he joined us. :) I'm talking about when I spoke to them in the last 2 years to 18 months period.

Also I'm not too encouraged by a centre back who's only 5'11" :eek:

Trolley
23-06-2005, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Jay_Palace
. he is also extremely good at holding up the ball and laying it off for a quicker player.

A role which 'Paul Stewart' played with some effect during the promotion 'Season' under 'Alan Smith'.

:p

eagles #1
23-06-2005, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Actually Eagles #1 they said he was s**t long before he joined us. :) I'm talking about when I spoke to them in the last 2 years to 18 months period.

Also I'm not too encouraged by a centre back who's only 5'11" :eek: :( Doesnt sound too good then. Palace thought he's good enough to spend up to 1.5m on him though :eek:

Latvian Eagle
23-06-2005, 07:05 PM
1.5m is a joke. We've been robbed big time on that one. It's not even lik ehe's got massive potential. He's 26-27 already!

adrenalin john
23-06-2005, 07:07 PM
Macken could do very very well for us. I don't doubt his ability for a second and he could be the perfect foil for AJ.

My worry is that every account I have heard of him in the last 2 years is that he will never reach full fitness again.

However I presume Palace did a full medical and if he passed that OK there is no one better than Dowie and Harbin to fitten, strengthen and sharpen up players.

I also think the boy is hungry and I like that.

Batsta
23-06-2005, 07:16 PM
I too wasn't keen on the Ward transfer. Of course I hope he turns out to be good now we have him.

the elusive k
23-06-2005, 07:25 PM
If we play well next season I believe in a succesful team Maken would easily get 20 goals and help setup many more.

He is an excellent signing.

nelson alfie
23-06-2005, 07:27 PM
I don't think there's much misunderstanding about Macken. He's a good player and an exciting purchase.

the elusive k
23-06-2005, 07:28 PM
On the other hand I have always considered Ward to be a bit of a donkey. I just hope my long held opinions of him are way off the mark.

Ridcully
23-06-2005, 07:54 PM
My Millwall suporting season ticket holder mate was gutted, said

"Palace have done well picking up Darren Ward. I thought he was off to a premiership side?"

"Yes, he was one of our best players this season. Excellent value at 1.5m"

Gooders
23-06-2005, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Actually Eagles #1 they said he was s**t long before he joined us. :) I'm talking about when I spoke to them in the last 2 years to 18 months period.


Which will be why he's won their Player of the Year award two years running.

Latvian Eagle
23-06-2005, 09:41 PM
Sorry but your Millwall mate is talking rubbish. Ward is worth nowhere near 1.5m. I'd rather keep Powell and play him or Hudson along side Hall.

Jay_Palace
23-06-2005, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Sorry but your Millwall mate is talking rubbish. Ward is worth nowhere near 1.5m. I'd rather keep Powell and play him or Hudson along side Hall.

So basically you are disagreeing with both Dowies, who have tracked him for a while and proclaim him as the best centre half in the league? Powell is a bit of a joke and one goal doesn't make himagood player. As for Hudson, I don't think he will ever be more than a squad player. He didn't do himself any favours last season.

cpfc_spc1982
23-06-2005, 09:55 PM
ward's solid enough at this level the fee was ott and i doubt he would be up to much in the premiership but if he helps take us up no probs.

cpfc_spc1982
23-06-2005, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle

Also I'm not too encouraged by a centre back who's only 5'11" :eek:

ward's taller than that if thats who your referring to?

Latvian Eagle
23-06-2005, 10:08 PM
Not according to every source I have read about Darren Ward.

Yes Jay I am disagreeing with them, as I have disgareed with a few of Iain's decisions in the past.

No I am not saying I could do a better job, but I do think his judgement is questionable in certain cases. Wayne Andrews anyone?! :eek:

Jay_Palace
23-06-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Not according to every source I have read about Darren Ward.

Yes Jay I am disagreeing with them, as I have disgareed with a few of Iain's decisions in the past.

No I am not saying I could do a better job, but I do think his judgement is questionable in certain cases. Wayne Andrews anyone?! :eek:

Very true, to this day I can't possibly explain why we signed him. The best I can come up with is that he's a good bloke to have around :rolleyes:

I think you should trust the judgement on Ward though. I've seen him on tv a few times and he seems to have everything a defender needs at this level, and possibly enough for the prem.

eagles #1
23-06-2005, 10:22 PM
"We will only miss Ward if he don't play against us. He's pony on the ground, Stevie would play himself against Wardy and show you Surryites what a donky ward is on the ground."

"Stevie" Being Mr.Claridge.

Oh dear :(

eagles #1
23-06-2005, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Jay_Palace
As for Hudson, I don't think he will ever be more than a squad player. He didn't do himself any favours last season. Thought he played very well against Boro at home.

selhurst star
23-06-2005, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Never held him as a "top line" player, but certainly wouldn't say he's bad. I think he's fairly good, certainly in the Championship anyway. The one signing of ours I have question marks over thus far is Darren Ward.

I know he's been voted Millwall player of the year two years in a row, but the Millwall supporters I know all say he's s**t.



They would, wouldn't they.

imashed
23-06-2005, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Del Martian
Macken is a lot of ways resembles one Paul Stewart whom we acquired about 10 years ago and is also ex-City.
A very professional forward. I think he'll do well.
10 years ago make's you feel old and he was playing in a struggling palace team then

cpfc_spc1982
23-06-2005, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by eagles #1
Thought he played very well against Boro at home.

wasnt his fault for the goal ? and he lost hasselbaink a few times. still would have expected him to be rusty.

AndyStreet
23-06-2005, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Sorry but your Millwall mate is talking rubbish. Ward is worth nowhere near 1.5m. I'd rather keep Powell and play him or Hudson along side Hall.

Don't be ridiculous. Powell is massively inferior as a defender to Ward.

eagles #1
23-06-2005, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by cpfc_spc1982
wasnt his fault for the goal ? and he lost hasselbaink a few times. still would have expected him to be rusty. Was he marking Quedrue for the header? Maybe he was, i cant remember. I do remember him making a few very good tackles and blocks though.

Gooders
24-06-2005, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Not according to every source I have read about Darren Ward.

Yes Jay I am disagreeing with them, as I have disgareed with a few of Iain's decisions in the past.

No I am not saying I could do a better job, but I do think his judgement is questionable in certain cases. Wayne Andrews anyone?! :eek:

You must be reading selectively. I've just trawled through a Millwall messageboard (which was a very painful experience) and unsurprisingly, the general gist of their postings when rumours first surfaced that Ward was leaving was "oh no! our best player", "this club has no ambition" and "well, he deserves a crack at the Premiership".

It was only after they found out that he was coming to us that they changed their tune.

Why don't you just wait and see, and make your own mind up after a few games?

Pub Idol
24-06-2005, 07:13 AM
Ive been told by Millwall season ticket holders that he is class. I will take that.

celery stick
24-06-2005, 07:19 AM
Under Dowie's guidance Macken is gonna be great.
As is Ward.


To back up Pub Idol, my mates a Miiiwwaaawwww fan and he really rates Ward and is well annoyed we've got him.
:D

st albans
24-06-2005, 07:22 AM
anyway, whats so bad about having a donkey as a centre back, we've already got Hall that is composed, quick and likes (tries) to play the ball. You need a mixture of centre backs and these 2 will work well together. Defenders like Adams, Keown, Pallister, B*uce, etc etc were donkeys and they were some of the best we've seen in this country for years

so what if he's a donkey, it doesnt make him a bad player

Freddy Kurz
24-06-2005, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by kolinkins
This is really annoying me - why oh why are people calling him a target man / lump? He isnt. He is a proper footballer, a clever player (brighter than Dougie) and is in far more Dougie's mould of player than Ships.

There, feels much better.

I certainly wouldn't describe Macken as just as a target man or
a lump, but physically at 5ft 11ins. and weighing 13st.13lbs,
compared to Andy Johnson's 5ft.7ins and 10st.09lbs (or even
Freedman's modest 5ft.9ins and 12st 05lbs) he is much closer
to Shipperley's stature: 6ft. and 13st. That is why, elsewhere
I described him as a better Shipperley. He IS a proper foot-
baller, although I will need to have a much closer look at him
before I make a final assessment of his footballing prowess.
Always thought Shipperley had more ability than many on
BBS did, but this was dependent on his maintaining a high
level of fitness, which he rarely did in his last two seasons.
Had AJ had a Paul Stewart, a Mark Bright or a Jon Macken
alongside him, we would still be in the Premier League.....

eagles #1
24-06-2005, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Freddy Kurz
I certainly wouldn't describe Macken as just as a target man or
a lump, but physically at 5ft 11ins. and weighing 13st.13lbs,
compared to Andy Johnson's 5ft.7ins and 10st.09lbs (or even
Freedman's modest 5ft.9ins and 12st 05lbs) he is much closer
to Shipperley's stature: 6ft. and 13st. That is why, elsewhere
I described him as a better Shipperley. He IS a proper foot-
baller, although I will need to have a much closer look at him
before I make a final assessment of his footballing prowess.
Always thought Shipperley had more ability than many on
BBS did, but this was dependent on his maintaining a high
level of fitness, which he rarely did in his last two seasons.
Had AJ had a Paul Stewart, a Mark Bright or a Jon Macken
alongside him, we would still be in the Premier League..... Shipps is only 13st?! :eek: and Macken is nearly a stone heavier?! :eek:

God help us.

Freddy Kurz
24-06-2005, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by eagles #1
Shipps is only 13st?! :eek: and Macken is nearly a stone heavier?! :eek:

God help us.

Am quoting "Skysports Football Yearbook 2004-2005"

Mackenuff
24-06-2005, 10:16 AM
Yeah but the difference is that Shipps carries most of that weight in arse fat!

Macken is quite clearly a more muscular and fitter player.

As for the Darren Ward argument, I've heard that he turns on a dustbin lid and has no pace but can read the game very well and should do well for us. That's coming from friends of mine who watch Millwall every week. I get the impression they're pretty gutted about him coming to us but they're not letting on too much.

Jim Cannons Moustache
24-06-2005, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by eagles #1
"Stevie would play himself against Wardy and show you Surryites what a donky ward is on the ground."

"Stevie" Being Mr.Claridge.




I listened to part of the play-off final on 5live and Claridge was co-commentator. They were talking about Elliott Ward and mentioned how Darren had just signed for us. Claridge's reaction was "Good player. Very good player"

Boyandy
24-06-2005, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by adrenalin john
I also think the boy is hungry and I like that.

You're thinking of Sandor.

Macken's Irish! ;)

Sleeping Giant
24-06-2005, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by nelson alfie
I don't think there's much misunderstanding about Macken. He's a good player and an exciting purchase.

I don't see Macken as an ideal foil for AJ. AJ needs a big target man and I believe it is this pattern of play that would get us up. Didn't we nearly go down with Morrison and Forrsell/Freedman??? Macken, from what I gather isn't that much of an ariel threat and that would be a big problem. Macken said he left for regular football. I think he is definately replacing AJ and I'm pleased with him as a replacement providing we get 10 million for AJ very soon. (ie so we have time to spend the money!)

Mackenuff
24-06-2005, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Sleeping Giant
Macken said he left for regular football. I think he is definately replacing AJ and I'm pleased with him as a replacement providing we get 10 million for AJ very soon. (ie so we have time to spend the money!)

Old argument I know but can't see us getting 10mil for AJ. Somewhere in the region of 6mil is about as much as we should expect to be offered.

As for Macken, I think quite a few of us probably suspected that he would be a replacement for AJ as opposed to a foil. Would like to see Macken and Torghelle play together. Both big a strong and decent touch. Need to see more of Torghelle and think he could do well for us at this level.

andy m
24-06-2005, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by imashed
10 years ago make's you feel old and he was playing in a struggling palace team then

Um, wasn't he actually playing in a Palace side that won promotion to the Premiership and collected the First Division Championship trophy along the way?

HappyLarry
24-06-2005, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Not according to every source I have read about Darren Ward.

Yes Jay I am disagreeing with them, as I have disgareed with a few of Iain's decisions in the past.

No I am not saying I could do a better job, but I do think his judgement is questionable in certain cases. Wayne Andrews anyone?! :eek:


Even Wayne himself would admit he's not sure why Dowie bought him!

Popester
24-06-2005, 01:08 PM
Re Macken, a family friend is a ST holder at Man City and he thinks we have a really good deal. He said you can tell Macken is an excellent footballer, he just never quite fitted in at City.

I also agree with Kolinkins in that he is a clever, technically gifted player, rather than Shipps Mark II.

cpfcinprem
25-06-2005, 10:27 AM
Am I the only 1 on here who thinks macken is absolute toilet?

Gooders
25-06-2005, 12:02 PM
Probably, yes.

If that's your view, I think you're in for a pleasant surprise.

kestoneagle
25-06-2005, 12:14 PM
Why would someone want a view of the toilet?

magician
25-06-2005, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Ridcully
My Millwall suporting season ticket holder mate was gutted, said

"Palace have done well picking up Darren Ward. I thought he was off to a premiership side?"


he is it's just that we are having a sabatical (sp) from the premiership

Coveta
25-06-2005, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle

Also I'm not too encouraged by a centre back who's only 5'11" :eek: [/B]


The following link shows OUR Darren Ward as 6' 3", and Darren Ward the Norwich goalkeeper as 5' 11"

http://www.4thegame.com/club/millwall-fc/player-profile/6665/darrenward.html

Does anyone know his true height? I would find it hard to believe he's under 6 foot if he is so good in the air.

Coveta
25-06-2005, 01:00 PM
6' 3" in this link too !!

http://www.millwall-history.co.uk/DarrenWard.htm

Gooders
25-06-2005, 02:05 PM
Yeah, come on Latvian - get your bloody facts straight.

cpfcinprem
25-06-2005, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Probably, yes.

If that's your view, I think you're in for a pleasant surprise.

I really hope Im wrong!

cpfc_spc1982
25-06-2005, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
This is really annoying me - why oh why are people calling him a target man / lump? He isnt. He is a proper footballer, a clever player (brighter than Dougie) and is in far more Dougie's mould of player than Ships.

There, feels much better.

macken is a lump whatever hes like as a footballer hes got fitness issues.
what is a target man these days ?
the ball will be targetted at times towards macken to his feet or to his head and he will be expected to hold it up. ashton is a clever striker but he still acts as a target man at times. its all about having a different dimension to his game.
i really dont think he has the guile of dougie though.

Freddy Kurz
26-06-2005, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by imashed
10 years ago make's you feel old and he was playing in a struggling palace team then

Correction imashed: Paul Stewart played a distinguished and decisive role(18 games) in Palace's promotion year (1993/94) in which they became Champions of Division One under Alan Smith. It was Ron
Noades' refusal afterwards to pay Liverpool the 2m they wanted
for him, and instead taking the much cheaper option of signing
Armstrong's best friend, Andy Preece, that resulted in our immed-
iate relegation from the Premiership the following season.

redandblue
26-06-2005, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Jim Cannons Moustache
I listened to part of the play-off final on 5live and Claridge was co-commentator. They were talking about Elliott Ward and mentioned how Darren had just signed for us. Claridge's reaction was "Good player. Very good player"

I thought Ward was a good signing until I read this as Steve Claridge is the worst commentator/Pundit in the buisness and not by a little bit.

I am not so sure about Maken I hope that I am wrong. I am not sure that with a few minute to go and place in Europe beckoning that bringing on a reserve keeper rather than a forward is a good sign.

Freddy Kurz
26-06-2005, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by cpfc_spc1982
macken is a lump whatever hes like as a footballer hes got fitness issues.
what is a target man these days ?
the ball will be targetted at times towards macken to his feet or to his head and he will be expected to hold it up. ashton is a clever striker but he still acts as a target man at times. its all about having a different dimension to his game.
i really dont think he has the guile of dougie though.

Have carefully checked back on Macken's "vital statistics" whilst at
Preston North End and find that his "fighting weight" throughout his
first-team career with them was between 12st and 12.01 for a
height of 5'10" (according to the relevant "Rothman's" Year Books).
It is only the "Sky Sports Year Book 2004-2005" (successor to
"Rothman's") which gives his weight @ Man.C as 13st.13lbs. and
his height 5'11". Knowing as we do that Macken suffered
injury problems at City and was later out of favour with Kevin
Keegan it should not be too surprising if he gained weight
while at that club, much as Neil Shipperley did while at Forest
(where he weighed in at !4st.01lb.)and later at Wimbledon
where he tipped the scales at 13st.11lbs, but was still able
to play 46 games there and score 20 First Division goals,
before coming to Palace and winning us the Play-off Final
at a sylph-like 13stone!
My point is that it may be a trifle premature to write off
Macken as a lump, especially as he will soon be undergoing
the Dowie/Harbin pre-season training system!
It is often inadvisable to stero-type and label players,
adversely, because history shows us that if correctly
motivated and given a scientifically controlled diet and
fitness regime, the careers of individual players can be
dramatically transformed. We must all hope this will
be the case with Jon Macken.

Freddy Kurz
26-06-2005, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by redandblue
I thought Ward was a good signing until I read this as Steve Claridge is the worst commentator/Pundit in the buisness and not by a little bit.

I am not so sure about Maken I hope that I am wrong. I am not sure that with a few minute to go and place in Europe beckoning that bringing on a reserve keeper rather than a forward is a good sign.

Isn't it a little dangerous to build-up an entire assessment of Jon
Macken's ability and future value to CPFC on the basis of one
panicky gamble by a recently-appointed manager of Manchester
City in his desperate attempt to secure a place in Europe?
It is surely obvious that the 'keeper was thrown on to
provide additional height and weight to supplement a
notoriously vertically-challenged City line-up at dead-
ball situations late-on in the game. Don't know the
height of the City deputy 'keeper, but would be willing
to bet it comfortably exceeded Macken's 5'11"!
We can also be reasonably certain that the ploy
of using that 'keeper in an emergency attacking
situation is something City would have frequently
worked upon in practice.

Tommy Pickle
26-06-2005, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle
Actually Eagles #1 they said he was s**t long before he joined us. :) I'm talking about when I spoke to them in the last 2 years to 18 months period.


Plenty of Palace fans say that WR is sh1t. Doesn't mean they are right.

gaborgabor
26-06-2005, 10:35 AM
kuqi wont sign

Gooders
26-06-2005, 05:10 PM
Good.

kolinkins
26-06-2005, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Good.

But he will infact sign....

Gooders
26-06-2005, 05:43 PM
Say it ain't so Klinks - please say it ain't so.

kolinkins
26-06-2005, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Gooders
Say it ain't so Klinks - please say it ain't so.

It's so bro

Blackburn want Benni McCarthy, Kuqi doesnt want to move, and our 4 forwards next season will be AJ, Macken, Dougie and Kuqi.

Ships might have to retire, Andrews is a squad player and Torghelle looks like he is off.

Pokerface
26-06-2005, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
our 4 forwards next season will be AJ, Macken, Dougie and Kuqi.

I'll take it.