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Ecalap Latsyrc
22-07-2005, 09:19 AM
When Dowie arrived he and Harbin performed a fitness miracle on the squad. We went from vastly underachieving to overachieving. Many would agree that it was big factor in our success last time we were in div 1.

We all seemed to think that this would carry over into the prem, but it didnt. Instead of tiring we lost concentration.

How much of a difference is fitness going to make now we're back in the CCC?

Was it just the shock treatment of fitness after Kember which made it noticeable or are we going to be one of the fittest teams in the division?

Any thoughts?

davematt
22-07-2005, 09:25 AM
Last year physically we were up for the challenge, but mentally let our selves down with, as said above, concentration. We need to get the balance right and I am sure we will. One thing is certain, although concentration is important, it certainly wont be as important in this league. In the Premiership, losing concentration for 1 second costs you a goal, but in the CCC, you don't get punished as much, but it is still worth having good concentration at all times.

Scroatey
22-07-2005, 09:37 AM
I'm beginning to think that our "superior" fitness is an exaggerated myth - it suggests that other clubs just jog round the park midweek and then turn up for matches at the weekend.

Funnily enough they all have fitness coaches, doctors, physio's and other experts at the top of their field!

Ecalap Latsyrc
22-07-2005, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Scroatey
I'm beginning to think that our "superior" fitness is an exaggerated myth - it suggests that other clubs just jog round the park midweek and then turn up for matches at the weekend.

Funnily enough they all have fitness coaches, doctors, physio's and other experts at the top of their field!

Was it the shock of seeing the players put effort in after Kember left that created the myth? Seem to remember an Aki article where he said that under Kember there was far less training/fitness work and no-one could be bothered.

palace_crystal
22-07-2005, 10:38 AM
Our team 'fitness' wise is second to none in this division.

Absolution
22-07-2005, 10:42 AM
Yeah reckon the midfield fittness that proved quite useful in the Prem will literally run rings round most of the CCC.

Mackenuff
22-07-2005, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by palace_crystal
Our team 'fitness' wise is second to none in this division.

The question is, how do you know this to be fact??? What/who are the yard-stick for 'superior' fitness?? You can't say our fitness is second to none because there is simply no way of measuring it.

It certainly wasn't second to none in the Premiership!

Just because Harbin used to work in rugby league doesn't make his fitness programme any better than some of the existing ones in the CCC.

Beanie
22-07-2005, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Scroatey
I'm beginning to think that our "superior" fitness is an exaggerated myth - it suggests that other clubs just jog round the park midweek and then turn up for matches at the weekend.

Funnily enough they all have fitness coaches, doctors, physio's and other experts at the top of their field!
Whilst all teams have a physio, by no means all teams outside the Premiership have several or a specific and qualified fitness coach. Many simply have a guy - often an ex-player or athlete - who runs the physical side of training as opposed to a qualified coach. I may be wrong, but I believe Harbin is Palace's first. It's a simple financial reality - you can't have a football team without players or football coaches, but full time fitness coaches, dieticians, masseurs etc are luxuries most clubs outside the Premiership simply can't afford.

Either way though, it's what you do with the staff that really matters.

palace_crystal
22-07-2005, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Mackenuff
The question is, how do you know this to be fact??? What/who are the yard-stick for 'superior' fitness?? You can't say our fitness is second to none because there is simply no way of measuring it.

It certainly wasn't second to none in the Premiership!

Just because Harbin used to work in rugby league doesn't make his fitness programme any better than some of the existing ones in the CCC.

I know this for fact, because i have done rigirous fitness tests on every player in the coca cola championship, 20 best players from each squad. Than found an average for a player in a team and put them into a table to find palace top of the list.

Either that or its a biased guess :)

Beanie
22-07-2005, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Mackenuff
The question is, how do you know this to be fact??? What/who are the yard-stick for 'superior' fitness?? You can't say our fitness is second to none because there is simply no way of measuring it.

It certainly wasn't second to none in the Premiership!

Just because Harbin used to work in rugby league doesn't make his fitness programme any better than some of the existing ones in the CCC.
You certainly CAN see a level of fitness (or at least of suitable fitness), it is visible during games by the simple effort excerted towards the end of the match. There is no doubt that some teams do fold towards the end of a game and some don't. The really fit ones will actually increase their tempo as the opposition slows. In the Premiership, as evidenced against Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal at home, the team did not drop physically.

I felt that we were visibly better than many teams last time in Div 1, and now with a lot longer working on a proper progarmme we will be better still.

Mackenuff
22-07-2005, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by palace_crystal
I know this for fact, because i have done rigirous fitness tests on every player in the coca cola championship, 20 best players from each squad. Than found an average for a player in a team and put them into a table to find palace top of the list.

Either that or its a biased guess :)

I assume you're having me on and it is a biased guess. :)

However, it would be interesting to see what the results were if a sample of players was taken from each club. I really don't think there would be much to choose between the top and bottom of the fitness league. :)

Mackenuff
22-07-2005, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Beanie
You certainly CAN see a level of fitness (or at least of suitable fitness), it is visible during games by the simple effort excerted towards the end of the match. There is no doubt that some teams do fold towards the end of a game and some don't. The really fit ones will actually increase their tempo as the opposition slows. In the Premiership, as evidenced against Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal at home, the team did not drop physically.

I felt that we were visibly better than many teams last time in Div 1, and now with a lot longer working on a proper progarmme we will be better still.

I still believe that there is something to be said in mental lapses being attributed to physical tiredness. Against teams like Arsenal, Man Utd and Liverpool, the players are always going to be fired up due to the level of the opposition. The adrenaline kicks in and carries the players those extra few yards towards the end of the game. But what happened in the games agaisnt Man City, Portsmouth and Charlton, just to use a few examples???

Perhaps, at this level, we will have a superior fitness level but I honestly don't think that there is a massive gulf between our lads and the rest of the CCC in fitness terms.

Raoul Duke
22-07-2005, 12:09 PM
In the CCC we should be able to control the ball for longer periods and pass the ball around more so that should certainly save a fair amount of energy. Last season you head would start spinning watching Aki and Hughes chase the ball all game.

Chris Finch
22-07-2005, 12:13 PM
I saw Ian and Bob plus the new guy from Bolton jogging/small marathon last friday when I was at the lights in Elmers End.
They looked knackered.. good on em.

cpfcinprem
22-07-2005, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Absolution
Yeah reckon the midfield fittness that proved quite useful in the Prem will literally run rings round most of the CCC.

Agree, players like Aki and Hughes did themselves no shame in the prem, so I think they will be pure class in the CCC. Aki improved his game dramatically and played a vital part in a lot of games.
This is without even mentioning Watson and Soares. Our midfield this year will be one of our strongest point imo.

palace_crystal
22-07-2005, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by cpfcinprem
Agree, players like Aki and Hughes did themselves no shame in the prem, so I think they will be pure class in the CCC. Aki improved his game dramatically and played a vital part in a lot of games.
This is without even mentioning Watson and Soares. Our midfield this year will be one of our strongest point imo.

Its encouraging with the good mix of experience in the center (aki, hughes) and youth (Watson & Soares)

I believe that our younger players will do pretty well this season of course this is all just guess work!

LLCOOLSTEVE
22-07-2005, 01:18 PM
The FA sent people down to the training ground to look at what John Harbin does, apparentley they were extremley impressed.

Mackenuff
22-07-2005, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Raoul Duke
In the CCC we should be able to control the ball for longer periods and pass the ball around more so that should certainly save a fair amount of energy. Last season you head would start spinning watching Aki and Hughes chase the ball all game.

I do think that if we want to control the ball for periods of the game, we can't have Aki and Hughesey playing together in the middle. They are both good 'midfield destroyers' and were exactly what we needed to break up play against classier opposition but I'd personally like to see a bit more of Watson. Always looking to play the ball simple and is a lot more creative than Aki and Hughesey. That's not taking anything away from Aki and Hughesey because I enjoy watching both of those guys.

I do agree with your point that it should allow us to conserve energy and make the opponents do all the running.