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View Full Version : Charity Collectors At The Coventry Game Last Night


A Wooden Fish On Wheels
23-11-2005, 11:15 PM
Never a more unlikely set of blokes would you see collecting for charity on a freezing Tuesday November evening at Selhurst Park. And I don't mean the big fluffy costumes they were wearing that seemed to encourage people to fill their buckets with masses of cash.

But the security were very kind, and they were allowed in the Players Lounge (I don't know about other areas of the ground).

It was a shame that they were collecting for such a generic charity as 'terminally ill kids' - as many bogus collectors use this as a cover. They also had laminate charity passes but, again, it is unfortunate that these have been copied easily in the past and can be knocked together for a few pence.

I hope the club do strict checks before letting charities collect in and around Selhurst Park... there are a lot of scammers around at this time of year, after all, the gang of blokes last night must have taken a few thousand pounds away - but at least it's all going to those poor kids.

Scroatey
23-11-2005, 11:22 PM
Santa in the Glaziers was very cheery and was trying to blag a beer from us - we told him to wait for the sherry we were leaving him :p

Dunno how legit they were :confused:

Eaglesmad123
23-11-2005, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by A Wooden Fish On Wheels
Never a more unlikely set of blokes would you see collecting for charity on a freezing Tuesday November evening at Selhurst Park. And I don't mean the big fluffy costumes they were wearing that seemed to encourage people to fill their buckets with masses of cash.

But the security were very kind, and they were allowed in the Players Lounge (I don't know about other areas of the ground).

It was a shame that they were collecting for such a generic charity as 'terminally ill kids' - as many bogus collectors use this as a cover. They also had laminate charity passes but, again, it is unfortunate that these have been copied easily in the past and can be knocked together for a few pence.

I hope the club do strict checks before letting charities collect in and around Selhurst Park... there are a lot of scammers around at this time of year, after all, the gang of blokes last night must have taken a few thousand pounds away - but at least it's all going to those poor kids.

They might just have been genuine. Have you thought that

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
23-11-2005, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Scroatey
Dunno how legit they were :confused: Surely the mighty power of the BBS will reveal someone who knows them and is able to reassure us and say exactly what charity they were collecting for... or so you would think? I didn't give any money on the night, but I would be more than happy to post off a generous cheque if anyone is able to do this.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
23-11-2005, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
They might just have been genuine. Have you thought that I haven't said they weren't. I was suprised that there were no women or older people involved, but perhaps they were from a local pub or club or were firemen or something?

Anyone?

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
23-11-2005, 11:33 PM
Has anyone on here got a contact at the club that can give me the details of where to send my cheque? They would have done checks before letting them in the ground.

Eaglesmad123
24-11-2005, 08:10 AM
Can i ask why you are so interested in this. Are you trying to find out if they were genuine or not.

If you really want to give money to charity why not look on google and find a local kids charity you could give to.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
24-11-2005, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
If you really want to give money to charity why not look on google and find a local kids charity you could give to. That's a very good point. If we were to do that the chances are that the money would reach its intended destination, unlike a lot of the 'buy a rose' type people that we see at this time of year.

welshneil
24-11-2005, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by A Wooden Fish On Wheels
That's a very good point. If we were to do that the chances are that the money would reach its intended destination, unlike a lot of the 'buy a rose' type people that we see at this time of year.

Try Radio Lollipop for kids in hospital or Dreams Come True which sends terminally ill kids to meet their heroes or on a dream holiday. 2 very worthy kids charities I have donated to or volunteered for before.

Selhurst Celtic
24-11-2005, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by A Wooden Fish On Wheels
Surely the mighty power of the BBS will reveal someone who knows them and is able to reassure us and say exactly what charity they were collecting for...

I know some of the blokes who were collecting money but I'm currently unable to ask them what chariry they were collecting for as none are answering their mobiles and one of their neighbours told me last night that they'd headed off to the Bahamas for Christmas for some winter sun...

;)

Eaglesmad123
24-11-2005, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by A Wooden Fish On Wheels
That's a very good point. If we were to do that the chances are that the money would reach its intended destination, unlike a lot of the 'buy a rose' type people that we see at this time of year.

I get the feeling you think these guys were dodgy hence why you are trying to find out who they were.

strawberry mivi
24-11-2005, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
I get the feeling you think these guys were dodgy hence why you are trying to find out who they were. You may be on to something there Sherlock, but I'm not going to put words into anyones nouth, especially AWFOW

BaldEagle96
24-11-2005, 11:57 AM
One things for sure they were certainly very enthusiastic.. Even there after the game as well..

GreatGonzo
24-11-2005, 12:01 PM
I did object when one deliberately changed his position to block my path. Stand and collect yes but blocking someone 5 minutes before kick off is annoying! To think i could have missed Wayne Andrews goal!

Dorking .Eagle
24-11-2005, 12:04 PM
Sincerely hope they were not dodgy, but usually when the club allow a matchday collection, they insist that the collectors stay in certain allocated positions - these guys roamed around really hunting for donations, and even worked the queue in the chinese chippy - also they spread across the whole of Holmesdale road after the game
very brazen if not official

Scroatey
24-11-2005, 01:20 PM
If anyone would like to make a donation to a good cause then Palace Radio's charity for the 2005/2006 season is St Christopher's Hospice.

We've already raised 400+ on-air but we're also able to take donations on-line this season via our Just Giving page: http://www.justgiving.com/eagles

All donations go straight to St Christopher's and leave a message and we'll give you a shout on-air :p

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
24-11-2005, 09:00 PM
I saw a bloke tonight in Croydon, around the back of East Croydon station, he must have been about 70 and the icey wind was whipping around... he was in a bloody sleeping bag on some steps. Not on the main drag with a begging bowl, just trying to find a little corner on his own at about 7:30 tonight.

Imagine what the thousands of pounds that the scam scum collectors took away could have done for that poor old sod.

1) Think long and hard. Don't be conned by some stupid lame guilt trip layed on you by pathetic wankholes in stupid costumes. Sometimes it takes a much better and braver person to say NO.

2) Use your money carefully.

3) Palace should carefully vet any so-called charity collectors that they allow to fleece money off people, effectively, in their name.

4) Charity con is a double-whammy. Not only does it con the person giving the money, it deprives the very people that it claims to help.

5) I despair.

PhilD
24-11-2005, 10:22 PM
I really hope they were genuine.

It didn't even occur to me at the time that they could have been fraudulent, but the way they were working their way around the queues for the lower holmesdale was unusual for charity collectors.

Eaglesmad123
24-11-2005, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by A Wooden Fish On Wheels
I saw a bloke tonight in Croydon, around the back of East Croydon station, he must have been about 70 and the icey wind was whipping around... he was in a bloody sleeping bag on some steps. Not on the main drag with a begging bowl, just trying to find a little corner on his own at about 7:30 tonight.

Imagine what the thousands of pounds that the scam scum collectors took away could have done for that poor old sod.

1) Think long and hard. Don't be conned by some stupid lame guilt trip layed on you by pathetic wankholes in stupid costumes. Sometimes it takes a much better and braver person to say NO.

2) Use your money carefully.

3) Palace should carefully vet any so-called charity collectors that they allow to fleece money off people, effectively, in their name.

4) Charity con is a double-whammy. Not only does it con the person giving the money, it deprives the very people that it claims to help.

5) I despair.
Once again you are acusing the guys of being dodgy

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
24-11-2005, 10:38 PM
Do you think they were legit?

Ian Hart
24-11-2005, 11:03 PM
I do think we have to be very careful in what we are saying here. If someone comes up with some evidence of them not being legitimate, fair enough. It means they conned me out of a couple of quid, but they wouldn't be the first people to do so, and I hope they can sleep at night.

But until someone comes up with evidence, I'd prefer to believe they were legitimate. And assuming they are, can you imagine what it would be like for a genuine person reading or hearing of this thread. It would mean that having given freely of their own time to stand in the freezing cold and collect money for sick children, they then get abused for their time and trouble and labelled a fraudster. How would you feel if that were you?

Until someone can produce evidence to confirm this speculation, I don't think it's appropriate for people to be making comments of that nature.

pallet
24-11-2005, 11:13 PM
When I was interested in doing a collection for the Asian Diaster fund at Palace, I was told they regulate and control all collections.So I very much doubt they would have been allowed to collect in or around the ground without the clubs permission and therefore should be OK.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
25-11-2005, 12:12 AM
I suppose if it is good enough for Goldberg and Venables...

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
25-11-2005, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Ian Hart
I do think we have to be very careful in what we are saying here. If someone comes up with some evidence of them not being legitimate, fair enough. It means they conned me out of a couple of quid, but they wouldn't be the first people to do so, and I hope they can sleep at night.

But until someone comes up with evidence, I'd prefer to believe they were legitimate. And assuming they are, can you imagine what it would be like for a genuine person reading or hearing of this thread. It would mean that having given freely of their own time to stand in the freezing cold and collect money for sick children, they then get abused for their time and trouble and labelled a fraudster. How would you feel if that were you?

Until someone can produce evidence to confirm this speculation, I don't think it's appropriate for people to be making comments of that nature. How about someone comes up with some evidence that they were legitamate? If they are (or were) genuine hard working charity lads they won't mind a silly old shit like me worrying about it and posting concerns here - they will be more than pleased to put our minds at rest over this matter won't they?

The BBS is great, it can track down the bloke who did an eggy fart in Arthur Waite block X 1976, but no-one seems to know this gang who walked away with their buckets literally FULL of our money only a day ago?

gcwhite
25-11-2005, 04:52 AM
Type 'bogus charity collectors' into Google and see how many hits you get. Seems it's a very big problem.

One of the reports said something about regulations that the name of the charity should be on the collection boxes/buckets. I didn't notice if that was the case on Tuesday.

Leagle1979
25-11-2005, 08:13 AM
I must confess, i thought they looked a bit dodgy, I cant really explain why, maybe the aggressive collection style, and as someone pointed out the fact they were all 30-40 yr old blokes didnt help, not saying that in itself is suspect, its just not something you normally see.

I dont mind giving to charity and often will put a couple of quid in, but i didn't on Tuesday due to the fact that the guy collecting outside the Holmesdale was actively seeking people out, rather than letting people make their own minds up.

My first though on entering the ground was that they looked a bit dodgy.:confused:

Away Day Eagle
25-11-2005, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Leagle1979


My first though on entering the ground was that they looked a bit dodgy.:confused:

The ones outside the main stand looked v.dodgy.

I note that there was no-one telling what they were collecting for.

Pub Idol
25-11-2005, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Away Day Eagle
The ones outside the main stand looked v.dodgy.

I note that there was no-one telling what they were collecting for.

They were the pushiest I have ever seen. Just kept saying Terminally ill children etc.... If they were dodgy they had some nerve to pull that off.

Away Day Eagle
25-11-2005, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Pub Idol
They were the pushiest I have ever seen. Just kept saying Terminally ill children etc.... If they were dodgy they had some nerve to pull that off.

Also at a night game, would you recognise anyone of them again ?

The missus stopped to give money but had no change we moved swiftly onto the bar.

Everyone rushing to get into the ground, pushed for time, Well dodgy IMHO.

Esher Eagles
25-11-2005, 09:46 AM
I have to agree with the majority of threads on this point. They did not fit the normal 'look' of charity collectors.

The one i bumped into, trying to get to my seat in the Main Stand, blocked my path through the gate between the turnsiles at the Whitehorse and the portacabins.
He made himself such a nuisance that i had to push my way by.

He looked more like an Asian Yardie than a charity collector........

It would be useful to obtain a club annoucement on these charity workers....... and whether they were bonafide!

johnny
25-11-2005, 11:51 AM
I'm usually a bit of an easy touch for charity collectors,but on Tuesday I smelt a rat when asked for money outside Sainsburys.The guy was holding a tatty white bucket with no markings on it,and when I asked him what he was collecting for ,he said "African babies".I told him that that was a bit of a vague reply,and asked him what country in particular he was collecting for and he said "Africa" and looked at me as if I was thick.I told him that he should get his facts together and know what he was actually collecting for before asking people for money.He couldn't even tell me what organisation he was collecting on behalf of.

Stellavista
25-11-2005, 12:18 PM
A couple of points.
I wasn't there on Tuesday, but it does sound a bit iffy.

We (CP-FRIS Children's Club) have been allocated a match in January, for a bucket collection. It's the first bucket collection we've managed to get permission for.
The regulations are very strict.
Firstly, our buckets have to be sealed, preferably the approved charity style ones with solid lids. The buckets also have to clearly indentify the charity and our charity reg number.
Our collectors also have to be identified by named badge.
We are allowed to collect in specific areas.
We are not allowed into the stadium or adjoining bars, box office, or club shop.

If you're looking for a worthwhile charity to donate to, and want to be sure it does what it says on the tin, by all means donate to us.
We are all Palace supporters on the committee, and the majority of our contributions come form Palace supporters.
It's your very own charity. ;)

brighton_eagle
25-11-2005, 12:26 PM
If you want to give to charity, sent up a regular dd and tick the giftaid box.

Cleon
25-11-2005, 12:30 PM
Hold on, have I missed something here... is there any evidence that these guys weren't genuine?

Stellavista
25-11-2005, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
Hold on, have I missed something here... is there any evidence that these guys weren't genuine?

No, but the collection methods that have been reported certainly don't tally with the hoops that we have had to jump through in order to have our January collection approved.
I forget to say, as well as having to adhere to the club's regulations, we also have to bear in mind the strict guidelines set down by our regulator, the Charity Commission, the local authority, and the Met.

HolmesdaleNomad
25-11-2005, 01:59 PM
This thread has been going on for two days, and if they were genuine then somebody on here would have come up with some evidence by now.

They were definitely dodgey. There are plenty of charity scams around, and I am sorry, but anybody who gives money to some bloke just because he is dressed up as a bunny and says that he is collecting for terminally ill children is going to get conned sooner or later.

Other than giving it their blessing, I don't know what the club have got to do with it if the collection is in the public street.

Spoons
25-11-2005, 02:10 PM
Can't remember any accents - could it be a scam they try on at various football grounds or sporting events?

I gave a few coins on the assumption it was a group of Palace supporters collecting for a worthy cause. Now I'm having second thoughts.

If the Police are interested, I remember one was dressed as Buzz Lightyear.

Scroatey
25-11-2005, 03:00 PM
I've asked my contact at the Club but no response as yet!

sydnsteve
25-11-2005, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by HolmesdaleNomad
This thread has been going on for two days, and if they were genuine then somebody on here would have come up with some evidence by now.

They were definitely dodgey. There are plenty of charity scams around, and I am sorry, but anybody who gives money to some bloke just because he is dressed up as a bunny and says that he is collecting for terminally ill children is going to get conned sooner or later.

Other than giving it their blessing, I don't know what the club have got to do with it if the collection is in the public street.

The collection at the end of the game was not in the street, it was at the bottom of the stairs coming out of the Lower Holmesdale, so very much to do with the club.

dangerous
25-11-2005, 05:36 PM
Looked dodgy, too agggressive, surely someone on here could vouch for their authenticity if genuine.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
25-11-2005, 07:03 PM
I'm glad this thread has woken up a bit, I was worried that I was the only one pissed off with this crap.

And the fact that no-one has vouched for them speaks volumes.

I'm interested to see what Scroaty comes back with - if the club have cocked up they need to learn lessons from this. And why don't all those Police on overtime check out things like this?

If I stole a few grand on a match night I would expect to go to prison.

I am still willing to apologise and pay a proper donation to the charity if my views and fears on this thread are proved to be unfounded.

Jim Cannons Moustache
25-11-2005, 07:14 PM
At the time I thought it was strange to say the least, reading what I have here (particularly from Stellavista about the hoops legit collectors need to jump through) has convinced me they were dodgy.

selhurstparkflyer
25-11-2005, 07:59 PM
A bit of a side issue, I grant you but last night I was out and a bloke came up to me and asked me if I would give him some money. I normally 'just say no' as I can't really be bothered with begging but this bloke qualified his request with 'it's for some weed.' I loved his honesty and gave him a quid.

gcwhite
25-11-2005, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by selhurstparkflyer
A bit of a side issue, I grant you but last night I was out and a bloke came up to me and asked me if I would give him some money. I normally 'just say no' as I can't really be bothered with begging but this bloke qualified his request with 'it's for some weed.' I loved his honesty and gave him a quid.

Blimey, I used to get a quid deal in 1970. Surely a quid won't get much these days. ;)

Eagle Mal
25-11-2005, 10:45 PM
Why give some money for some weed, is it because we beat them 3-2
:lux:

NorwoodPride
25-11-2005, 10:54 PM
I bumped into 'Donald Duck' at the top of the Holmesdale Road and he asked me what division we were in. But none of them seemed like genuine collectors to me, I must admit. Maybe it was a rehabilitation programme for old lags?

norwood_girl
25-11-2005, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Stellavista
We (CP-FRIS Children's Club) have been allocated a match in January, for a bucket collection. It's the first bucket collection we've managed to get permission for.

Might be a good idea to remind us all in January Stellavista so that we give generously to the collection you guys have organised :p

Does anyone know if the people who come around with the "sick kids" collecting tin in the Cherries are pukka?

AWF is right about these crooks, they make it much harder for genuine charity collectors to raise some cash.

norwood_girl
25-11-2005, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by selhurstparkflyer
I can't really be bothered with begging but this bloke qualified his request with 'it's for some weed.' I loved his honesty and gave him a quid.

Superb! :p

The only pan handler I gave money to in San Francisco was one that had a "why lie I want beer" sign.

TrevorWel
25-11-2005, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by johnny
...........and when I asked him what he was collecting for ,he said "African babies".


It sounds so suspect, let's just hope that we are wrong and he was telling the truth. I heard on the news today that 150 children are dying of starvation in the African nation on Niger every day.

That's rather heartbreaking.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
25-11-2005, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by norwood_girl
AWF is right about these crooks, they make it much harder for genuine charity collectors to raise some cash. Bucket collections can be a very spontaneous and short term quick fix to get money into the heart of a problem very quickly. But, this applies mostly to a local or very specific need.

People really need to change their attitude about charity. Handing money over to some bird with her tits hanging out in the pub to 'buy a rose for a terminally ill child' is just stupid. I have had people barracking me in the pub when I have declined, 'ahhh tight wad' and it is that peer group pressure that they rely on.

It is amazing that these people can fleece us under our noses week after week and walk away scot free, that they can con 20,000 football fans in one foul swoop, yet they are defended on here. We need to get real, stop feeling guilty about our charity contributions and do what we can when we can in the right way.

It is amazing that these people can execute their con freely amongst a set of people with some of the most passionate views about (e.g) dealing with child molesters, people who con old people, muggers, rapists, etc. etc. - and yet they walk amongst us and wander away pissing themselves with a pocket full of cash laughing at what a sad bunch of fools we are.

lightweight
25-11-2005, 11:46 PM
Whilst I agree that this may have been dodgy - not everyone collecting for charity knows what it is for - was at the dogs tonight & there was a charity "human" race - the people selling tickets had t-shirts to do with the charity & everything - I asked one of them what charity it was & they had no idea! However it was all legit!

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
25-11-2005, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by lightweight
Whilst I agree that this may have been dodgy - not everyone collecting for charity knows what it is for - was at the dogs tonight & there was a charity "human" race - the people selling tickets had t-shirts to do with the charity & everything - I asked one of them what charity it was & they had no idea! However it was all legit! Fair enough. But why would they feel passionate about you giving money if they can't even be bothered to find out what charity they are making a tit of themselves for? This is my point - we need to harden up and get serious about it, 'it's for charity' just isn't good enough any more, and it is that attitude that the scammers hide behind, "mention charity on no-one will dare question it". Today there is more need for charity than ever - so let's make sure that when we give a pound IT COUNTS.

ee-ay-ee-ay-ee-ay-o
26-11-2005, 12:02 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by A Wooden Fish On Wheels
[B]How about someone comes up with some evidence that they were legitamate? If they are (or were) genuine hard working charity lads they won't mind a silly old shit like me worrying about it and posting concerns here - they will be more than pleased to put our minds at rest over this matter won't they?

How about the good old English law of "innocent till proved guilty" ?

I applaud your efforts to get to the bottom of this but hold on the insults and accusations until its known...can be dangerous to be so judgemental..

lightweight
26-11-2005, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by A Wooden Fish On Wheels
Fair enough. But why would they feel passionate about you giving money if they can't even be bothered to find out what charity they are making a tit of themselves for? This is my point - we need to harden up and get serious about it, 'it's for charity' just isn't good enough any more, and it is that attitude that the scammers hide behind, "mention charity on no-one will dare question it". Today there is more need for charity than ever - so let's make sure that when we give a pound IT COUNTS.

I agree - if I'm doing a charity collection I make sure I know about it first - although usually it's something I've been involved in, but over the years I've collected for various ones - & had very few people ask detailed questions (although I did have to explain collecting for an Iron Lung appeal in french once!). As Stella said earlier - given the stringent guidelines and problems we've had organising a charity collection at palace for the disabled kids charity I'm surprised that anyone would get through the loopholes, but those on Tuesday seemed inconsistent and from what's been said they were in the wrong places too.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
26-11-2005, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by ee-ay-ee-ay-ee-ay-o
I applaud your efforts to get to the bottom of this but hold on the insults and accusations until its known...can be dangerous to be so judgemental.. [/B] Fair do's, but I had to take this one straight on because I had such a bad gut feeling about it. I started off very carefully because I was mindful of the fact that the power of the BBS would have some big lump going mad at how I could even question them. But the longer it goes on the more I am certain that these were the lowest of the low.

I would like to see them treated in the same way that Garry Glitter is.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
26-11-2005, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by lightweight
but those on Tuesday seemed inconsistent and from what's been said they were in the wrong places too. Again, I am out of order... the people on the gates were probably just taken in by the gushing enthusiasm of the men in costumes, perhaps they felt guilty that if they didn't let them in that they would be f ucking up the charity?

I really hope that there wasn't a back-hander to be allowed inside the ground / lounges / bars / etc.

There is no doubt that many people chucked their dough in because these people were effectively 'sanctioned' by the club by being in all the bars and lounges around the ground.

Ian Hart
26-11-2005, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by ee-ay-ee-ay-ee-ay-o


How about the good old English law of "innocent till proved guilty" ?

I applaud your efforts to get to the bottom of this but hold on the insults and accusations until its known...can be dangerous to be so judgemental..

That's the very point I made on page 1 of the thread. I was hoping - perhaps more in hope than expectancy - that someone would confirm their authenticity, but it is beginning to feel that the silence on that front is worrying, in which case Wooden Fish will have been proved right to raise his concerns.

That would make me feel sick to my stomach, not because I gave money (it wouldn't be the first time in my life I've been taken for a sucker) but because it will make people reluctant to give to genuine people collecting for genuine charities. I'm still hoping that these collectors are proved to be genuine, but my automatic faith in people is beginning to look naive.

James
26-11-2005, 09:37 AM
I have just read this thread. I was also a bit suspicious when I saw the collectors (although I did chuck in some change).

I hope the Club are checking this and will call in the Police if they have any serious doubts.

Ruskin Old Boy
26-11-2005, 09:42 AM
Isn't there usually an announcement in the programme when there's an authorised collection taking place?

Ian of Chatham
26-11-2005, 09:50 AM
Maybe they were Brighton fans in disguise collecting money for Falmer.


I must admit I assumed they were suspicious so I didn't give them any money. Normal collectors usually identify which charity they are from and what location unless it is a national charity.

BaldEagle96
26-11-2005, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Ian of Chatham



I must admit I assumed they were suspicious so I didn't give them any money. Normal collectors usually identify which charity they are from and what location unless it is a national charity.

Funny how many thought the same thing. I was going to give money until I saw they did not have anything on their buckets and all they said was "terminally ill children" without the actual name of the charity...

old git
29-11-2005, 12:24 PM
The poice are quick enough filming everyone for walking up the street maybe they have this lot on camera.:confused:

GreatGonzo
29-11-2005, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by old git
The poice are quick enough filming everyone for walking up the street maybe they have this lot on camera.:confused:

Yes and i can see them arresting a man in a bunny suit any day soon - maybe that was the reason for the fancy dress so they could not be recognised?

Dorking .Eagle
29-11-2005, 12:33 PM
Despite plenty of calls of innocent till prved guilty, still no-one has been able to supply any further details proving they were either authorised by the club, or even collecting for a specific registered charity.

cpfcinprem
29-11-2005, 12:34 PM
So does anyone know? Surely someone must!
When I saw them I remarked to the girl that they looked dodgy. I was thinking of asking them the name of their charity but thought that if I did, I would more then likely end up giving them money!

El Aguila
29-11-2005, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Spoons


If the Police are interested, I remember one was dressed as Buzz Lightyear.
It's a serious thread and thanks to Woody for bringing this up - but that is a great post.

GreatGonzo
29-11-2005, 12:37 PM
All it should take is a call to the club.

rjp
29-11-2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by norwood_girl
The only pan handler I gave money to in San Francisco was one that had a "why lie I want beer" sign.

Was this recently? I did the same a couple of weeks ago. But then found that several had the same message so I decided it was a gimmick and no-one got anymore money!

Henfield Eagle
29-11-2005, 04:19 PM
It's a shame if it is a scam,hope it doesn't affect the genuine ones in future.

GreatGonzo
29-11-2005, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Henfield Eagle
It's a shame if it is a scam,hope it doesn't affect the genuine ones in future.

Of course it will, if it is proved it was a scam it will make a lot of people think twice before giving money on future occasions.

DANGERMOUSE
29-11-2005, 05:08 PM
I thought they looked suspect as well, but didn't give it that much thought - I suppose people generally think the best of such things.

To be honest, I never give to collectors in the street if I've never heard of the charity, and these blokes got nothing off me.

Nelson Muntz
29-11-2005, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by old git
The poice are quick enough filming everyone for walking up the street maybe they have this lot on camera.:confused:
But they'll be in the Bahamas by now.

Cleon
30-11-2005, 05:00 PM
I've just emailed the club to ask whether they were genuine and/or collecting with the club's permission, and will let you know if I receive a response.

rhino_mik
30-11-2005, 05:22 PM
I was selling daffodils for Marie Curie at the Utd game last year (I think). I went up to Simon Jordan outside the car park asked if he wanted one and he just brushed past with a little shake of his head!

Scroatey
30-11-2005, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by rhino_mik
I was selling daffodils for Marie Curie at the Utd game last year (I think). I went up to Simon Jordan outside the car park asked if he wanted one and he just brushed past with a little shake of his head! I wonder how many rich "celebrities" have hawkers, charity collectors, and salesman harrassing them all the time because "surely he's got money!"

Nice try though :p

Cleon
02-12-2005, 10:47 AM
Just had this reply from the Communications Officer at CPFC:

Dear (Cleon)

The collectors at the match against Coventry City were working on behalf the Romford Independent Legal Advise Centre which is a voluntary organisation which helps terminally ill children by taking them on day trips and holidays abroad.

I hope this information is of help.

Kind regards

Which I hope concludes the debate on this thread.

sydnsteve
02-12-2005, 10:54 AM
Ah, Cleon, but what if they were only pretending to be The Romford Independent Legal Advice Centre, and were in fact a marauding troupe of robbers who had stolen the costumes...........................

MATTY THE EAGLE
02-12-2005, 10:55 AM
Romford!, Shouldnt they being do West Ham or Grays etc, not bloody Palace, I hate people from Essex with a passion, bloody mockney s.

Ruskin Old Boy
02-12-2005, 11:03 AM
Thanks for posting the Palace reply Cleon.

Worth having a look at their entry at the Charity Commissioners website http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/showcharity.asp?regno=1081716&submit=Run+Search

Sorry to say that I'm not convinced that they are genuine.

Cleon
02-12-2005, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
Thanks for posting the Palace reply Cleon.

Worth having a look at their entry at the Charity Commissioners website http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/showcharity.asp?regno=1081716&submit=Run+Search

Sorry to say that I'm not convinced that they are genuine.

Possibly so, but I think there is a difference between the orginal suggestion that the guys were some kind of fly-by-night blaggers who'd nicked a few costumes and buckets and disappeared into the night with people's donations, and to question the motives or actions of a genuine organisation.

Ruskin Old Boy
02-12-2005, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Cleon
Possibly so, but I think there is a difference between the orginal suggestion that the guys were some kind of fly-by-night blaggers who'd nicked a few costumes and buckets and disappeared into the night with people's donations, and to question the motives or actions of a genuine organisation.

Don't disagree with that.

No, what worries me more is that in the letter from Palace it says that the charity is a voluntary organisation which helps terminally ill children by taking them on day trips and holidays abroad which is somewhat at variance to their stated objective "TO RELIEVE POVERTY BY PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN MATTERS WHICH MAY INCLUDE WELFARE AND DEBT TO THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO PAY FOR THE SERVICES OF A SOLICITOR OR A BARRISTER. ALSO TO HELP THE HOMELESS AND THOSE IN NEED."

DANGERMOUSE
02-12-2005, 11:39 AM
Good sleuthing, Cleon & R.O.B.

Bloody hell, their accounts are more overdue than Palaces! Bit disturbed that they haven't been struck off the charity register if they've missed three sets of accounts.

Personally, I'm not convinced by them.

Eaglesmad123
02-12-2005, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MATTY THE EAGLE
Romford!, Shouldnt they being do West Ham or Grays etc, not bloody Palace, I hate people from Essex with a passion, bloody mockney s. [/QUOTe

Funny i would have said you and your bro were mockneys. The amount of modern day slang words you use is very laughable.

You also at times use words which are associated with the american black music scene despite your hatred of people called wiggers (white people who talk like they are black)

Little Matt
02-12-2005, 12:13 PM
Interestingly they also turn up here (http://www.lliarsoflondon.com/litigation/jaffray_appeal_062001.htm) (as RILAC) in an axe-to-grind website, representing some of the Lloyds of London 'names'. Curiouser and curiouser.

Cleon
02-12-2005, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Ruskin Old Boy
No, what worries me more is that in the letter from Palace it says that the charity is a voluntary organisation which helps terminally ill children by taking them on day trips and holidays abroad which is somewhat at variance to their stated objective "TO RELIEVE POVERTY BY PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE AND OTHER ASSISTANCE IN MATTERS WHICH MAY INCLUDE WELFARE AND DEBT TO THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE THE MEANS TO PAY FOR THE SERVICES OF A SOLICITOR OR A BARRISTER. ALSO TO HELP THE HOMELESS AND THOSE IN NEED."

Fair enough - it's vague and could be suspicious. However, there are lots of potentially dodgy charities out there, I was more concerned with the idea that both Palace fans and club had been 'mugged' by some wideboys.

sydnsteve
02-12-2005, 12:26 PM
ROB, it is very odd that a charity set up to give legal advice to the poor should in any way be involved with holidays for terminally ill children. And only 3 trustees?

Scroatey
02-12-2005, 12:47 PM
Let's assume it was a genuine charity who do good work for children whether funding trips or legal aid, it is strange that the Club would choose them when there are hundreds of better connected more local organisations who would want to collect at Selhurst Park!?

Perhaps someone knows someone!

Eaglesmad123
02-12-2005, 01:20 PM
Why dont we forget the matter and move on. Its like this whole thing is becoming an obession with some people. If you are that concerned why not do something good and make a donation to a local kids charity.

Scroatey
02-12-2005, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
Why dont we forget the matter and move on. Its like this whole thing is becoming an obession with some people. If you are that concerned why not do something good and make a donation to a local kids charity. Palace Radio's Charity 2005/2006 - St Christopher's Hospice (http://www.justgiving.com/eagles) :p

Spoons
03-12-2005, 12:30 PM
Caught a train yesterday morning from Kent before 08.00 and who was at the station collecting - a man dressed as Santa Clause rattling a very full bucket and written on the bucket "collection for terminally ill children". Seemed to be identical to the collection at Palace.

I'm not convinced there isn't an organised scam in the Croydon/Bromley area at the moment.

If these collections are genuine, how much money (if any) has gone towards funding visitsetc for the children.

Also, do Palace do any checks to see if the info they are given is genuine? After all. they have close liaison links with local Old Bill.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
05-12-2005, 12:18 AM
The charity correspondant listed here --> http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/showcharity.asp?regno=1081716&submit=Run+Search
is a Winston Leachman. The 'legal advice' element of this scam stems from his own experiences when he was jailed in for four and a half years 1991 for obtaining property by deception (cheque book fraud etc.) and subsequently set about trying to appeal using Habeas Corpus despite the fact that he had already been released by then. Needless to say it was rejected. See here --> http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1997/833.html

Anyone else still think this convicted fraudster from Romford and his team of boys were really going to give our money to some poor terminally ill children? How on earth did Palace get taken in by this bunch. They should be struck off by the charity commision investigated by the police.

Johnson
05-12-2005, 12:34 AM
It is an absolute disgrace, how do these people sleep at night.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
05-12-2005, 12:47 AM
See also: http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1998/22.html&query=winston+leachman&method=all
where the court notes, "11. It is perfectly obvious that the Applicant has become wholly obsessed with this form of process and has lost all touch with reality. Nor apparently is that all. We are told that he frequently telephones the Crown Office staff. He harangues them, he abuses them, he demands that they arrange immediate hearings for his applications. He has been told by the Crown Office, very helpfully, that if he truly believes his original conviction was unsafe it remains open to him to apply to the Criminal Cases Review Commission for them to consider whether or not to refer the case back to the Court of Appeal under section 9 of the Criminal Appeal Act 1995."

There is a rather amusing end to the transcript...
"15. THE APPLICANT: Thank you, Sir. Me as a citizen I am not going above this Court but nobody told me where to go or where not to go. I am a free man in this country, ok? If I am going to challenge my conviction I will go where - if you had the same trouble where your valuables have been taken out and your furniture has been taken away from you, then you have got no jurisdiction and I don't care who you are or him above. My furniture and my house has been taken from them policemen and I am going to challenge it and if I have to die for it I will die for it.

16. LORD JUSTICE SIMON BROWN: It has become yet plainer that the Order we make is the right one. Thank you.

THE APPLICANT: Whatever."

:D

and also

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1997/300.html&query=winston+leachman&method=all

Ruskin Old Boy
05-12-2005, 08:52 AM
Nice piece of investigation AWFOW.

Criminal that so many people have been taken in by this eejit.

Kevan Woz Awful
05-12-2005, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Eaglesmad123
Why dont we forget the matter and move on. Its like this whole thing is becoming an obession with some people. If you are that concerned why not do something good and make a donation to a local kids charity.

I don't think it is time to 'move on' By some dogged investigative work by a number of posters and led by AWFOW these boards have unearthed an unholy scam.
Surely it's only time to 'move on' when the Football League warns every club what's going on and the Charity Commissioners wake up and do their jobs properly.

'Providing Welfare' = 'Giving money to whoever they like'.

762657
05-12-2005, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Scroatey
I wonder how many rich "celebrities" have hawkers, charity collectors, and salesman harrassing them all the time because "surely he's got money!"

Nice try though :p

Sharon Osbourne gave some Big Issue seller 20 the other day outside the Ritz. Shoulda seen the bundle of notes she had!!!

Scroatey
05-12-2005, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by 762657
Sharon Osbourne gave some Big Issue seller 20 the other day outside the Ritz. Shoulda seen the bundle of notes she had!!! Darn the success of the X-Factor :veryangry

Little Matt
05-12-2005, 10:26 AM
Cleon, as you are in communication with the club over this, perhaps you could point them in the direction of what AWFOW has dug up. At least it might stop them from coming back.

JohnA
05-12-2005, 10:32 AM
Just spotted this.

I have a particular hatred for fraudulent collectors.
Dress up in a "funny" suit & get a laminate pass.

Well done WFOW - who this time last year did do something good for a sick child.

sydnsteve
05-12-2005, 12:03 PM
Surely there is something that can be done about this? If this is as dodgy as it sounds, you can't think of a much more reprehensible thing to do.

Slimbloke'H'
05-12-2005, 02:32 PM
I can't believe I've not read this thread before...

Some excellent work here guys - it now needs to be taken forward. Old Bill or OFT anyone




Oh, and MATTY THE EAGLE,

...I hate people from Essex with a passion, bloody mockney s.

I must remember to ask you to repeat this should we ever meet.

Spoons
05-12-2005, 11:00 PM
The evidence indicates an offence of 'obtaining property by deception' has been committed.

If the matter is reported to the (South Norwood) Police, they will have to log it as a crime and investigate. Quite a nice case for the local CID seeing as most of the legwork has been done already. Probably get them to a lot of other football grounds, concert venues etc to find associated crimes.

Hedgie
06-12-2005, 07:31 AM
If this turns out to be a con, as it looks like, Palace should learn from this. They should be letting the collectors inside the ground before the game only, and banning collectors in fancy dress, to ensure that any con artists that do fly under the radar by appearing genuine can still be identified by CCTV. They should also have numbered 'official collector' jackets made up that are distributed to collectors before the game and collected immediately after kick off. Simple measures that can easily be communicated to fans.

Tony
06-12-2005, 08:05 AM
These, I think, would be the contacts.

South Norwood Police
Sector Inspector Ian Barry
e-mail ian.barry@met.police.uk

The Charity Commission
enquiries@charitycommission.gsi.gov.uk

CPFC
customerservices@cpfc.co.uk

There's also a rather complicated form for the FA's customer relations people



We still don't know for certain that they were doing anything illegal, but I think there are grounds at least for a further enquiry and the above organisations should all be made aware at least. It may be that this is a job for the Charity Commission, and I think they should at least look into the activities of this organisation. But the police and Palace should be made aware and we can send them the links to the information revealed on this thread.

I don't mind compiling a summary of what's been written on this thread and emailing them, unless somebody else wants to take it on? I'll check back later in the day, if no-one else wants to do it I'll write to them and keep you posted about responses.

Does anybody remember if the fancy dress outfit completely covered the men's faces? The one I saw was in a head to toe Doonald Duck outfit, not easy to identify.

Spoons
06-12-2005, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Tony


Does anybody remember if the fancy dress outfit completely covered the men's faces? The one I saw was in a head to toe Donald Duck outfit, not easy to identify.

I could not possibly identify the Buzz Lightyear or the Santa I saw at the station. However, it shouldn't be too difficult for the OB to track down the gang at an event in the next few weeks. There must have been other complaints registered previously and by the looks of the costumes they are worn frequently.

Let us know how you get on with the report to the OB Tony.

WFOW - hat's off for raising this and sticking with it.

Maybe a story for the News of the World ???

DANGERMOUSE
06-12-2005, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Spoons
Maybe a story for the News of the World ??? Awfow (with the help of Ruskin) should be heartily commended for his work on this. We are all liable to be emotionally blackmailed into chucking coins into buckets, and it was wise of him to be suspicious.

I think the first thing to do is for him to alert the police (if he has not done so already) and, depending on what sort of response he gets from them, the press may indeed be an option. I'm sure newspaper coverage carries the risk of being a double-edged sword, but if exposure in a Sunday paper meant crooks were no longer able to go around scamming the public, it must be worth it.

Brixton Boy
06-12-2005, 01:01 PM
Excellent work by all concerned.

Its possible that the registered charity and the collectors are not related at all. Its more likely that a gang of opportunists and con-men cook up the scam and then look for a moribund charity (which this seems to be), whose name they can use, fairly safe in the knowledge that they won't encounter anyone connected with the charity while out collecting.

Levski
06-12-2005, 04:48 PM
Starting reading the thread this morning, and, assuming these guys were scammers (as it certainly seems to be) I'm really upset by this. I heartily endorse DM and Brixton Boy's comments. I really think this should be brought to the attention of the police. I am disgusted by this and really disappointed by the club for being taken in. Someone cocked up big style to allow this to happen.

ElwissAtMemphis
06-12-2005, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Spoons
Maybe a story for the News of the World ???

It sounds like the sort of thing Watchdog on the BBC would do a good job on (or any other equivalent program). I'm getting visions of a guy dressed as Santa trying to shield his face, carrying an overflowing bucket of coins, getting chased down the street by a camera crew and a relentless interviewer.

"Tell us about these holidays Mr Leachman ... where did you take them ? ... what happened to the money collected at Selhurst Park ? ... stop punching me ! ... help !" (If it's Nicky Campbell on the receiving end, so much the better)

Chillo
06-12-2005, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Dorking .Eagle
..... but usually when the club allow a matchday collection....

Interesting that when the Palace Crystal Cheerleaders wanted to have a collection to raise funds, the message given was No.

I.Flyer
06-12-2005, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by DANGERMOUSE
Awfow (with the help of Ruskin) should be heartily commended for his work on this. We are all liable to be emotionally blackmailed into chucking coins into buckets, and it was wise of him to be suspicious.

...

I too would like to commend AWFOW and Ruskin Old Boy and all the others concerned for their work on this. Well done lads!

Ian Hart
06-12-2005, 11:27 PM
I now have serious doubts whether the Romford Independent Advice Centre really exists any more. It was registered as a charity in July 2000. And if you look at page 9 of this http://www.cityparochial.org.uk/files/publications/grants_review_2001_pt2.pdf they were given a grant of 30k in 2001 to hire a full-time manager and by some equipment. However, there is very little trace of their activities since. They haven't posted any accounts since 2001. I just tried to phone them, and although I wouldn't expect anyone there at this time of night, if they were still an Advice Centre I would have at least expected a recorded message saying when they would be open - but there wasn't.

Furthermore, in a Goverment supported initiative, Guidestar UK are in the process of finalising a website for all registered charities. They've done a draft listing for each, and given each charity a password to enable to get in and improve and expand on it. (I know this because I'm the secretary and trustee of a small charity). Whilst this charity does appear on the website, having looked at the entry it seems obvious that they haven't done anything to expand on the basic entry Guidestar drafted, which seems very odd if they're still after money.

However, on one of the pages of the entry it shows them as having three trustees. http://www.guidestar.org.uk/gs_organ.aspx?CCReg=1rSTCyCuOx4OtgZlXG1rcg%3d%3d&strQuery=romford%20independent%20legal%20advice%20 centre Does anyone know anything about any of these three guys? They're very likely genuine people, but I just wondered. The fact that it shows three trustees does not mean it is still operating, since Guidestar will have simply taken this info from the Charity Commission, which is itself likely to be out of date.

DaveCPFC4Life
07-12-2005, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by ElwissAtMemphis

"Tell us about these holidays Mr Leachman ... where did you take them ? ... what happened to the money collected at Selhurst Park ? ... stop punching me ! ... help !" (If it's Nicky Campbell on the receiving end, so much the better)

LMAO:p

Tony
07-12-2005, 12:48 AM
I found the same City Parochial report as Ian. I also tried to phone RILAC today and there was no reply.

I'm still working on a draft of a letter which I'll try to finish tomorrow as I've been busy at work today.

Ardent Eagle Forever
07-12-2005, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by rhino_mik
I was selling daffodils for Marie Curie at the Utd game last year (I think). I went up to Simon Jordan outside the car park asked if he wanted one and he just brushed past with a little shake of his head!

Don't slate SJ for this, all his fees for his Observer articles go to a Childrens Charity in Guildford!!!

Little Matt
07-12-2005, 09:31 AM
Another bit of evidence, or lack of really, is that they are not listed under their name or acronym on the Companies House website, either as existing, disolved, or even changed name.

This of course doesn't prove that they don't exist or operate as a charity, BUT almost all medium and large charities are registered with Companies House as well as the Charity Commission. (I work full time for a small-ish charity, and the nature of our work includes producing and selling medical publications, so it is essential for us to be registered with both). Very small outfits may not be, but you would think that an outfit purporting to offer A) Independent Legal Advice and B) Holidays Abroad for Kids, should also be a limited company.

Ardent Eagle Forever
07-12-2005, 09:07 PM
Has anyone from the club seen this since AWFOW's detecive work????

Can they care to comment.

I know that when I was at the game, it was bloody annoying that these collectors were rattling their buckets in an overzealous way. I thought that this was banned???

Tony
09-12-2005, 12:36 PM
I've now composed a letter to the Charity Commission (after checking with a couple of people who have posted here for advice). I will send it this evening and copy it to the police, CPFC and the FA.

If anyone wants to see it then feel free to PM me. I will post any reponse I receive on here.

losteagle
09-12-2005, 01:29 PM
Well done to all of you who have come up with the evidence that this lot was fake might be worth taking to the adder or even the nationals

Tony
09-12-2005, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by losteagle
Well done to all of you who have come up with the evidence that this lot was fake might be worth taking to the adder or even the nationals

It's a possibility, but I think we should ask the relevant authorities to investigate before we do anything else. We still don't really know whether they were genuine or not, but I think most of us are agreed that it's worth asking the Charities Commission to look into it.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
10-12-2005, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Tony
It's a possibility, but I think we should ask the relevant authorities to investigate before we do anything else. We still don't really know whether they were genuine or not, but I think most of us are agreed that it's worth asking the Charities Commission to look into it. Good work, Tony, cheers mate.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
10-12-2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by losteagle
Well done to all of you who have come up with the evidence that this lot was fake might be worth taking to the adder or even the nationals In my opinion it is all too common. Every night in most bars in Croydon you will find young women selling roses or luminous bracelets or whatever for 'charity'.

Tony
11-12-2005, 09:25 PM
I've sent a letter to the Charity Commission, copied to the Football League, the police and CPFC. Just a note to say that I've received an automated response from the Charity Commission saying that they will respond within 15 working days.

I guess in the meantime, this thread will drop down the list, but rest assured we are making an enquiry and as soon as I hear from them I'll post it here.

Ruskin Old Boy
11-12-2005, 09:33 PM
Many thanks Tony.

Tony
13-12-2005, 09:05 PM
I received a response from inspector Ian Barry, South Norwood Police, today.

The supporters group did bring this up at the meeting last week and were advised by the club that this was a bone fide collection, authorised by CPFC to take place on Crystal Palace Property (Private Road and at turnstiles). Apparently all collectors had appropriate identification which was intermittently checked by club staff throughout the evening.
Ian Barry
Inspector


This partially answers the question, as the club and police seem satisfied that the collectors were above board. I'm still waiting for a reply from the Charity Commission (to whom the letter was directly addressed) with regard to RILAC's present status.

I guess the supporters' group Ian Barry refers to is PISA.

Ruskin Old Boy
13-12-2005, 09:10 PM
It'll be interesting to know whether PISA were aware of the facts ...

Al From Bromley
14-12-2005, 11:17 AM
I am totally against unsolicited charity collections. They should be banned. If I want to give I will do it thru the appropriate c hannels dirct to the charities concerned. No amount of dressing up as a bear or sitting in baths ful of beans is going to change that. When my sister worked in a place in New York a guy came in one evening purporting to be from some Animal friendly charity. After hassling customers for donations, as he shot towards the door to make a hasty exit, one of the customers shouted 'what about the elehpants" to which the bloke replied as he lit up a ciggy :yeah we'll sort them out next week" before disappearing into the night.

BaldEagle96
14-12-2005, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by Tony
Apparently all collectors had appropriate identification which was intermittently checked by club staff throughout the evening.
Ian Barry
Inspector





This bit strikes me as a little white lie unless of course the club have improved their procedures. I say that as someone who along with my two kids did the collection for the Tsunami appeal last year. None of us had any ID whatsoever and not once did anyone ask us who we were or for any kind of ID etc........

Nelson Muntz
14-12-2005, 04:33 PM
I also collected for the Tsunami and was given a yellow bib which didn't fit me so I tied it around my waste. Nobody challenged me at any time although I didnt have any ID.

BaldEagle96
14-12-2005, 04:40 PM
I forgot about the yellow bibs... Mine did not fit me either and was in my pocket for the two hours we were collecting! :)

Paul Romain
14-12-2005, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Tony
Apparently all collectors had appropriate identification which was intermittently checked by club staff throughout the evening.


Hmmmm......

I suspect the club are hoping this one just quietly goes away if they help it along a bit. Bit embarraassing to to aid and abet your supporters getting fleeced really (more than we are as a matter of course anyway lol). Given all the information gleaned by various tenacious investigators on this thread, the rather vague confirmation of these characters "bona fides" by the club doesn't really do it for me.

Doesn't sound like the authorities are too interested anyway

Ian Hart
14-12-2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Paul Romain
Hmmmm......

I suspect the club are hoping this one just quietly goes away if they help it along a bit. Bit embarraassing to to aid and abet your supporters getting fleeced really

Yep. They'd much rather do all the fleecing themselves ;)

gcwhite
14-12-2005, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Chillo
Interesting that when the Palace Crystal Cheerleaders wanted to have a collection to raise funds, the message given was No.

I wonder why the ladies football team were allowed then?

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
14-12-2005, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Paul Romain
Doesn't sound like the authorities are too interested anyway No it doesn't does it. It sounds like the club considers their obligation to stop once they are shown a charity number. And the Police are completely unconcerned about thousands of pounds worth of fraud taking place right under their noses.

That is WRONG.

The club should take responsibility to investigate the charities that they allow to collect under the banner of CPFC to protect the fans of the club and other genuine charities. That is their MORAL DUTY.

They should make at least some small effort to ensure that the charity is relevant to a current crisis or a local concern - there are masses of perfectly good charities that are already known to the club that would have loved to have used the money that was taken - we have had a few examples already on here - the Ladies football team, Cheerleaders, Disabled Kids Club, etc. etc. etc. but instead it lined the pockets of a gang of ex-convicts from Essex.

And as for the Police, they don't seem to understand that they have a LEGAL DUTY to investigate this matter. They are too busy counting their match day overtime for sitting in a van all evening.

Tony
14-12-2005, 11:39 PM
You'll be pleased to know that the Football League's reply, received today, simply said it's nothing to do with them it is the jurisdiction of individual clubs, although they'll be happy for us to let them know what happens.

Hopefully, the Charity Commission might be a little more interested.

Ian Hart
15-12-2005, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Tony
You'll be pleased to know that the Football League's reply, received today, simply said it's nothing to do with them it is the jurisdiction of individual clubs, although they'll be happy for us to let them know what happens.

Hopefully, the Charity Commission might be a little more interested.

Tony, my friend, I have a horrible giddy feeling coming on.

* The Football League say it's a matter for Palace.
* I suspect Palace will say it's a matter for the Police
* The Police might feel it comes under the auspices of the regulator, the Charity Commission
* And the Charity Commission will suggest.......

.......you write to the Footbal League :bash: :bash: :bash:

Elephant with mouse gyp
15-12-2005, 08:39 AM
Missed this thread until now. Great work by all concerned, except the club and the police.

Maybe it would be worth contacting fans of other clubs?

sydnsteve
15-12-2005, 10:34 AM
Is it worth contacting the Adder to see if they have a keen young reorter who might want to follow it up?

GreatGonzo
23-02-2006, 01:01 PM
BUMP

Looks like the rain is affecting them now.

Just had a call through my business line with someone telling me i had agreed to do a charity booklet and they needed all the details from me. Apparently i agreed to all this before new year but now they need detail, addresses etc etc.

Guess what the charity was? Only described as 'The kid's charity' and collecting for terminally ill children.

These people are still at it, i would have got their number but would you have guessed? They withheld it and hung up when i said i hadn't agreed leaving no contact details.

I expect they are calling businesses across Croydon with the same scam now!

RickyB
23-02-2006, 01:10 PM
the 'you agreed before ...' ploy is quite an old one. Tell them to feck off and sign up to the TPS.

Scroatey
23-02-2006, 01:23 PM
And call the Police!

Ian Hart
23-02-2006, 02:35 PM
Tony Matthews has made some progress on reporting this, and an investigation is underway.

Best to leave it to Tony update you all more fully though.

ElwissAtMemphis
23-02-2006, 02:45 PM
So has anybody made a formal complaint to the police. Surely yhey have a duty investigate if so, don't they ?

I know somebody made an enquiry, but that stinks of the club realising thay were conned and wanting it brushed under the carpet.

BaldEagle96
23-02-2006, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo


Just had a call through my business line with someone telling me i had agreed to do a charity booklet and they needed all the details from me. Apparently i agreed to all this before new year but now they need detail, addresses etc etc.



I get at least one such call a month!! People doing charity booklets for the police, the fire brigade, such and such a charity.. The list is endless..

I have even had things printed up with an ad for my hotel in and then they send me a bill saying they have some member of staff on tape agreeing to go into such a booklet. When I say to them to send me a Purchase Order and I will pay they soon disappear....

GreatGonzo
23-02-2006, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by BaldEagle96
I get at least one such call a month!! People doing charity booklets for the police, the fire brigade, such and such a charity.. The list is endless..

Just though i would post this one up cos it sounds like exactly the same people - very vague about the charity being 'for kids' and terminally ill children' etc etc.

gold76
23-02-2006, 05:18 PM
When I was poor & out of work a few years ago, I did actually work for a charity booklet publishing company based in Sydenham. Only for a couple of weeks mind. I was seeing a girl in Maidstone & needed the money to get down there! There was actually a booklet for schools that was published, the con side of it was that we were cold calling companies, saying that they had agreed to have their details used, when they hadn't. The guv'nor was a bit shifty & the money wasn't good, so I left & found more ethical employment!

Tony
24-02-2006, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Ian Hart
Tony Matthews has made some progress on reporting this, and an investigation is underway.

Best to leave it to Tony update you all more fully though.

There isn't much more to add at the moment. I have received an email from the Charity Commission in reply to my original letter. They said that they believe there is some cause for concern and have passed it to their investigations team. I don't know any more than that at present.

Sorry for being a bit slow on updating this, when I hear from them again I will let you know.

sydnsteve
24-02-2006, 02:49 PM
Thanks Tony. I really hope something happens as this is just so suspicious.
It makes you very worried about any small charity really, as there is no real check on them.

Supa Ol
21-03-2006, 03:58 PM
Two men who appeared to be representing the bunch from the Coventry game were collecting money on the platforms at Bromley South railway station this morning. I checked the ID of a guy dressed as The Pink Panther and it said 'RILAC'. He was miaowing and asking for money for terminally ill children.

Did anyone get any further with their investigations into the veracity or otherwise of this organisation?

PeterH
21-03-2006, 04:09 PM
Station staff, police and stewards should not be letting these type of collectors on their property and around the streets of a football match.

Spoons
21-03-2006, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Supa Ol
Two men who appeared to be representing the bunch from the Coventry game were collecting money on the platforms at Bromley South railway station this morning. I checked the ID of a guy dressed as The Pink Panther and it said 'RILAC'. He was miaowing and asking for money for terminally ill children.

Did anyone get any further with their investigations into the veracity or otherwise of this organisation?

I saw them at Bromley South this morning as well - one of them dressed as a clown and I'm certain it was the same guy who was dressed as Buzz Lightyear at Palace v Coventry.

Two questions

(1) are they genuine - I thought the previous enquiries suggested otherwise
(2) just how active are they because this is three separate places I have now seen them and if they are 'collecting' every day then thats an awful lot of money they are bringing in.

Supa Ol
22-03-2006, 12:14 PM
Previous posts on this thread indicated that the charity, which is registered as such, was run by a convicted fraudster and details of their charitable activities were not available. But that's about it. Did anyone get anywhere with their further enquiries?

elliott
22-03-2006, 12:18 PM
In Sheffield last week a bloke came up to me and told me that I was th e sort of person to give money to help "Sick children". He seemed a bit dodgy so I asked him what exactly it was for but he said "Sick Children". I noticed his card hanging around his neck and it looked like one of the most amateur things ever made. I could've done a better job.

Tony
23-03-2006, 01:45 PM
As stated above, the Charities Commission feel there is cause for concern and are still investigating this, I guess the wheels turn fairly slowly.

I passed on the comments about collectors being seen at Bromley South to the officer in charge of the case. When I hear from them, I'll let you know.

Scroatey
23-03-2006, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Spoons
...if they are 'collecting' every day then thats an awful lot of money they are bringing in.And taking home, cash in hand!?

It's a real shame that the Club and other authorities fail to act on these suspicions - the least we can expect are the charities accounts and the truth about the people behind it. And the claim that a convicted fraudster is involved doesn't fill me with confidence.

When this is concluded please send a letter with the findings to CPFC and ask them to be a little more careful in the future.

Good work everyone :p

PeterH
23-03-2006, 03:57 PM
Especially around Xmas time or any time really. If people are feeling generous this is potentially money not going to good causes.

Imagine a scenario around the Xmas break where this lot turn up at Selhurst. people give generously and they pocket the readies. The following week Lightweight et al do a bucket shake for the supporters box and lots of fans think 'I gave last week'. There is a limit to peoples charity, especially if a game like Crewe is 30 quid to get in.

Away Day Eagle
24-10-2006, 02:03 PM
Saw the other thread in General Chit Chat re: charity & it got me wondering about this thread.

Anything come of it.

Tony
24-10-2006, 05:02 PM
I never heard anything from them, but I've still got the email address, I'll write and ask.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
24-10-2006, 10:53 PM
No wonder these people do it.

They know the club won't give a shit, they know people will just chuck money in a bucket if they see a bloke in a funny costume, they know the Police couldn't care less, the football league don't care, and the Charity Commission take months to investigate and don't even bother to report back. If they do eventually take away their charity number then the blokes have had years of coining in thousands upon thousands of pounds in the meantime and could easilly set up again under a new name with a new front man and address.

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
24-10-2006, 11:01 PM
Still listed as a valid charity - check out the 'accounts': http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/showcharity.asp?remchar=&chyno=1081716

A Wooden Fish On Wheels
24-10-2006, 11:03 PM
Still the same fraudster in charge of it too.

Pathetic.