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selhurstparkflyer
02-09-2001, 01:45 AM
Tonight we witnessed something never achived before- a side beating Germany in a meaningful World Cup Qualifier on their own patch.

Not only that, we shafted them.
Yes, we had our luck but so did Brazil in 1970- its all about how you ride it.

I confess to having had a few.
Nevertheless, I beg the question.

Is this the first time in my lifetime (I am 28) that, with a fit side, we can really make a serious play for footy's ultimate prize?

pallet
02-09-2001, 01:49 AM
This is a young side that only get better, if they all saty fit and we get a the luck which is usually kept for German and Argentina, the the answer is

YES YES YES YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

I.Flyer
02-09-2001, 01:50 AM
If we continue to play with the same amount of luck and determination as tonight, I don't see why not. A brilliant evening and may I say, probably an historic one in the realms of English football. Cheers :D

SARN
02-09-2001, 01:50 AM
Yes I believe we can.....providing, as you say, everyone is fit. Great result tonight, about time we flogged those Krauts!

Daniel_Nash
02-09-2001, 01:55 AM
*whistles "The Great Escape"*

do-do do-do-do do do, do do do do do do

Would Dyer come straight into the side? I think we have depth throughout and that result will send signals to everyone in the world.

Steve in Phoenix
02-09-2001, 02:10 AM
Average age 25? (which would be lower once Seaman retires). Things look pretty good for us. Walloping the Germans was great after their arrogance, but it is clear to everyone they are no longer as good as they were. England and Germany are still both in the same boat of not being quite good enough to be top 5 in the world, particularly in defense - the difference is we're improving every game with Erikkson and with a young team.. the Germans must be so jealous.

Daniel_Nash
02-09-2001, 02:18 AM
There is more to come from England i feel, whereas Germany is (are?) in decline, and have been for a while. From the showing the Dutch put up today.... hmm, maybe they are too?

Thing that really annoyed me about the England game tonight was Adam Crozier and the other FA suits. Standing there in their Umbro training jackets congratulating Sven like it was because of them that England won. ******** was it, the FA institution has long been holding England back and finally they realised it was getting to be a joke... they loosened the purse strings and getting a world class manager who actually picks good players who can play in the system he wants and have now won 6 out of 7. The FA and their old-school approach to the game is outdated and so is the way they went about their business in recruiting Sven, but.. it appears they may have finally sorted it out.

It was like the people standing with Crozier were the "yes-men" who are the very ones who have been responsible for appointing people to please the public, and not actually someone who could do the job. Venables, Keegan, even Hoddle have all had minor successes but not continued success... lets hope Sven can do that.

muswell eagle
02-09-2001, 02:20 AM
We will win The World Cup in 2006 on German soil, which will be even sweeter than tonight.

We should qualify for 2002 now and realistically should aim for a quarter final place, but once a side gets that far, then who knows what could happen in a knock out tournament.

The defence is still very shaky and will remain so until we replace Neville and Seaman (notwithstanding their contributions tonight, which were both extremely important) and Campbell loses some weight.

sydney eagle
02-09-2001, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
[BI think we have depth throughout and that result will send signals to everyone in the world. [/B]agree 100% Daniel
COME ON ENGLAND:p

Prince Phillip
02-09-2001, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash

Would Dyer come straight into the side?

Bruce ???

David Murray
02-09-2001, 03:07 AM
We certainly have the potential of going on and winning the ultimate prize in football. I agree with muswell eagle about first getting rid of Neville and Seaman though.

zonin2000
02-09-2001, 03:11 AM
i reckon that we are in the same boat that argentina were in pre-france '98. a young side with great potential, argentina weren't the favouurites for the world cup but they were expected to do well, which they did, unfortunately losing out to a great piece of skill from denis bergkamp. however they continued to progress and now have the nucleus of the suad which did so well in 98 as well as some fantastic young players giving them, in my view, the best SQUAD in world football with even more depth in it than france.

in my opinion, england are following the same pattern and, as has been pointed out, the nucleus of our present team is still very young (david beckham and nick barmby are veterans at 26 and 27!). there is so much talent coming through that i think we will eventually have a squad that will make the rest of the world jealous (except maybe the germans, they would be too proud ;) ). brown, bramble, terry, sean davis, carrick, joe cole, gavin mccann (who i rate extremely highly), bowyer, dyer, chadwick, alan smith and jermaine defoe all added to the players who were involved tonight, im sure i missed quite a few others out. so as daniel pointed out we have (or, will have) great depth, which is ironic since i believe that a bbc pundit cited lack of depth as one of englands main problems in the past.

so in response to the original question, perhaps world cup 2002 will come slightly too soon for this england team, although they could (and hopefully will) surprise me. in any case we look in great shape for euro 2004 and even better for one of our future trips to germany...

zonin2000
02-09-2001, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Prince Phillip


Bruce ???

or even Alex! (remember him??)

jone-zee
02-09-2001, 03:22 AM
an excellent result and u know what is so good??? Thw fact that it puts the bandit Vegetables result aginst the Dutch way down the list.The meeja were creaming their pants over that one but did he produce a side that totalled the Germans the way that they were tonight??? BTW if u werent nervous with 5 minutes to go ...... u aint Palace ;)

Steve in Phoenix
02-09-2001, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by Prince Phillip
Bruce ???

Kieron of Newcastle.

Originally posted by zonin2000brown, bramble, terry, sean davis, carrick, joe cole, gavin mccann (who i rate extremely highly), bowyer, dyer, chadwick, alan smith and jermaine defoe

Woodgate, Jeffers, Ameobi, Ball, Barry, Cort, Seth Johnson, Hargreaves, can be added to that list of 12...

Actually I think the Germans would admit we are far better positioned in terms of youth. Its just impossible to argue otherwise even if they try to compare Deisler to Beckham. Interesting comparision to Argentina. I dont think we're quite as strong as they were going into France 98 with players like Batistuta, Redondo, Zanetti and Ayala but we are on the same course.

Doesnt it seem like a lot of countries are declining with only a few improving? Brazil, Germany, Norway, Czech Republic, Denmark, Romania, Bulgaria, Mexico, Ukraine..

AJ
02-09-2001, 03:36 AM
Makes me mad to think what England might have achieved over the past 30 years if a decent manager/coach had been appointed. I could argue "
what if", had Brian Clough been made manager instead of Graham Taylor.

The side is young and some of the U-21's (and younger) look even better. Nice to have something to cheer about for once....

How long before Sven is Knighted??

zonin2000
02-09-2001, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Actually I think the Germans would admit we are far better positioned in terms of youth. Its just impossible to argue otherwise even if they try to compare Deisler to Beckham.

i was just joking about the germans ;) . and its true, deisler cannot be compared to beckham. im sure that deisler will become a special player but i think that their styles are fairly dissimilar (although deisler is a dead ringer for a young peter beardsley!).


on a seperate note steve, i was wondering (and dont answer if you dont want to) how old you were ( i ask because from the responses to some of your posts you seem to be an adult and you do make references to your job, but then you were participating on the gamecube thread.. i didnt know adults played video games!! ;))

Steve C
02-09-2001, 04:09 AM
I loved tonight,sitting at home with my German mates watching the game,but the only downer were the British press they are an embarrisment to our nation,and I can see the crap headlines already for tomorrow crowing and boasting that they helped to beat the Germans,I say piss off back bown the hole you crawled out of and let the team take the glory they totaly deserve.

zonin2000
02-09-2001, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by Steve C
the only downer were the British press they are an embarrisment to our nation,and I can see the crap headlines already for tomorrow crowing and boasting that they helped to beat the Germans,I say piss off back bown the hole you crawled out of and let the team take the glory they totaly deserve.

hear hear! especially as since had we lost, they would probably be crucifying sir sven.

selhurst
02-09-2001, 04:28 AM
I spent this evening in a small room, above the Green Man pub in Catford at a wedding reception. About 20 blokes were huddled round a portable TV, and witnessed an English side that played with pride and confidence. Who knows where this will lead, but at the moment I feel we can go on to win the trophy. Anything is possible tonight.

ScottHooky
02-09-2001, 05:59 AM
Can we win the world cup? maybe. maybe not. Personally I just feel privigled to witness such a result...even if it was only on the tele.

As Palace fans, we're all used to relative success rather than anything tangible. In the same way, I feel ******* marvelous with tonights result. Let's enjoy it for now!

congress
02-09-2001, 02:16 PM
Answer to question-HA HA ,HA HA , HA HA.
Lets be honest,the German defence were crap.
If Finland had put away all their chances in thier last game against them the score would have been something similar to six or seven goals.

charltonhater
02-09-2001, 03:15 PM
Holland are literally out, Germany could go out, Brazil may fail to qualify who else is there who can win it apart from the overated Frogs and the evil Argentinians? Plus it's going to rain in every game giving Engaland a huge boost over the likes of Italy and Spain

Ben H
02-09-2001, 05:14 PM
This result will make the world sit up and take notice. No one goes to Germany and wins 5-1. We did.

Providing Owen and Beckham stay fit we've got a great chance next year.

As an aside, I watched the game in the Portmanor, wearing my Palace shirt. There had to be one Millwall w*nker in there giving it the large. Roll on Saturday!

AJ
02-09-2001, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by charltonhater
Holland are literally out, Germany could go out, Brazil may fail to qualify who else is there who can win it apart from the overated Frogs and the evil Argentinians? Plus it's going to rain in every game giving Engaland a huge boost over the likes of Italy and Spain

Don't kid yourself. Brazil are now very likely to qualify since the last round of results. Germany will probably still be there through the playoffs, there are still a lot of very good teams, remember Romania and Portugal in WC98 and Euro 2000, when they beat England.
The biggest challange for England will be the climate and the food:o

SE20
02-09-2001, 06:12 PM
Well done to England. We gave jerry a footballing lesson he won't forget in a hurry. In his own backyard too.

As for winning the World Cup, don't we always go into them expecting to win it? ....and come horribly unstuck

Daniel_Nash
02-09-2001, 06:36 PM
Is it just me who thinks this... but Deisler looks a bit too much like Peter Beardsley???

Ben H
02-09-2001, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
Is it just me who thinks this... but Deisler looks a bit too much like Peter Beardsley???

It's just you;)

Daniel_Nash
02-09-2001, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Ben H


It's just you;)

I'll get my coat....

Jack Regan
02-09-2001, 07:40 PM
Sorry to put a downer on things but in the last few weeks The Republic of Ireland have beaten the team (Holland) who beat the team (England) who beat Germany 5-1 yesterday.

Yes, I know, Holland was only a friendly..blah blah blah

Yet no-one's seriously suggesting that the Republic can win the World Cup. But it's apparently perfectly reasonable to say that England can!

You couldn't make it up.

And to all the bone-heads outside my local last night chanting "I'm England 'til I die" - lads, it's "I'm ENGLISH 'til I die"

Hills might well have 'slashed' Englands odds from 16/1 to 9/1 but I'm not in the slightest bit tempted. Give me 66/1 and we might be in business.

Santos-er
02-09-2001, 07:45 PM
Are you German???

Jack Regan
02-09-2001, 07:50 PM
No, I'm not.

Like the title says, I'm putting things in perspective lest people start thinking England are serious world championship material.

One freak result doesn't alter things.

They're ordinary. Realise it.

PJ
02-09-2001, 07:55 PM
Just to inject a note of caution, I recall that in the run up to the '94 World Cup, Columbia won 5-0 away to Argentina which was a comparable result in terms of the 2 country's rivalry and as a shock. The odds on Columbia winning the tournament were slashed and then they didn't get past the 1st round. Germany were very poor and we could easily have ended up with just a single point against Finland and Albania. It's looking good but let's not get carried away.

Pistike
02-09-2001, 07:58 PM
I didnt see the game Jack but a mate in the UK told me that Germany were atrocious. Would you agree?

zonin2000
02-09-2001, 08:19 PM
i think that england are an above-average team, still behind the likes of france, argentina and probably italy and in the same category of teams such as portugal, holland, germany, spain and brazil (and possibly ireland?). however, at englands current rate of improvement and with the talent currently coming through, they are rapidly pushing towards the top tier of world football, i think that only complacency and resting on our laurels can stop that from happening.

now, to compare england an ireland on the basis of both nation's matches against holland is, in my opinion, unrealistic. england played the dutch without five or six key players and without the extra pace and zest which is reserved for more competitive games. the game turned into a 'chess match' which suited the dutch. now from what i saw of the ireland vs holland match, the irish performed extremely well (perhaps above themselves) but they also rode their luck on many occasions. but credit where it's due and the irish certainly deserve it, with them being in with a chance of topping a group containing two euro 2000 semi-finalists. as for the england match last night, i think that the scoreline slightly flattered england, but only ever so slightly.

as for the betting, well i wouldn't back england either, at that price. not that they are not in with a chance, i would perhaps back them at longer odds. i don't know ireland's price, but i wouldn't back the at anything less than 25-1, mainly because i don't think that they will be seeded so will therefore probably get a tough group and also because of the lack of depth in their squad.
anyway, im not old enough to bet :).

pistike- i would agree with your friend, the germans were atrocious throughout the team (kahn included).

zonin2000
02-09-2001, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
Is it just me who thinks this... but Deisler looks a bit too much like Peter Beardsley???


no not just you, look at this earlier in the thread:

Originally posted by zonin2000
although deisler is a dead ringer for a young peter beardsley

great minds think alike... :p

Jack Regan
04-09-2001, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Pistike
I didnt see the game Jack but a mate in the UK told me that Germany were atrocious. Would you agree?

Yes, I would Pistike.

The current German side is widely regarding as being below the normal standard.

Lets see how England perform against Albania and Greece before any more of this loathsome bragging (which at times is bordering on sheer racism) continues.

ozzieEagle
04-09-2001, 05:30 PM
God i hope england can manage it, i'm lucky enuf to remember the
atmosphere the last time they won, (aged 9)


However presuming Australia qualify, and i'd say that was about 60/40
australias way at present, You want to pray that england dont meet
them, cos the only team Australia has to beat, from the aussies
point of view is England.

dont say you wasnt warned

Australia for the last 8 maybe 4 :)

Gooders
04-09-2001, 05:35 PM
Hadn't seen this thread before.

I think we have a good number of very promising young players and we could make a decent impression at the next couple of world cups if Sven can keep them focused.

But win it? Long way from that yet.

Germany are in a bad way and even so had a lot of possession - we were simply ruthless with our goal attempts.

We need to find Seamans replacement (not Nige - he'll be too old) and a couple of decent defenders too.

Nice though, wasn't it?

:)

DE - Glad All Over
04-09-2001, 05:42 PM
Agree with the earlier comments about our press, I winced the next day. I see that The Mirror burned a pair of German goal keeping gloves and sent the Ashes to the F.A making comparison to the Cricket Ashes are they mad, what happened to English cricket after that. The references to the 2nd world war are not even remotely funny anymore.

Additionally they spoke about burying the German arrogance over previous penalty shoot-outs, like we would not have loved to come through on those sudden death penalties. I have a hypothesis with our awful press that they are unwittingly a major factor in our sporting downfall over the past 20 years or so.

bunghole
04-09-2001, 06:30 PM
Not a chance.:D

Strathclyde Eagle
04-09-2001, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by ozzieEagle
Australia for the last 8 maybe 4 :)

Let them get past the play-off first. That isn't meant as a criticism - Australia do have talented players and it isn't their fault if they have possibly the most difficult route to the finals, i.e. playing lots of weak opposition even though there is no automatic spot available, then be thrown in with a South American team - nice. :rolleyes:

Hopefully the Australians will be there next year.

bunghole
04-09-2001, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Strathclyde Eagle


Let them get past the play-off first. That isn't meant as a criticism - Australia do have talented players and it isn't their fault if they have possibly the most difficult route to the finals, i.e. playing lots of weak opposition even though there is no automatic spot available, then be thrown in with a South American team - nice. :rolleyes:

Hopefully the Australians will be there next year.

Fair assessment Strath. Whilst hopeful, I just can't see us beating Uruguay, Colombia or god help us Brazil over two legs.

Daddy Long
04-09-2001, 07:06 PM
I can see Oz getting through. A Brazilian mate and avid follower of all world football is definite that should the Ozzies meet Brazil, the Ozzies would come out on top over 2 legs.

Gooders
04-09-2001, 07:09 PM
Well that's the shagging sorted out...what about the football?

ruediger
04-09-2001, 07:14 PM
Can England win the World Cup ?

Any team that has qualified can as long as they win their matches.
:D

Les Butler
04-09-2001, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Jack Regan


Lets see how England perform against Albania and Greece before any more of this loathsome bragging (which at times is bordering on sheer racism) continues.

Why is it when we get a chance to jump up and down and go nut's because a England team has done bloody well for a change, then we have to hit ourselves with sticks after ? I jumped up and down and went nut's and laughed at the GEEERMANS FOOTBALL TEAM and took the piss out of a couple of close Germans friends at the Bar (They come back with "we have to give you a go once since 66 etc and sad B@stards etc)

Yes there are racists pratts but they are in the minority 'but no lets put them dickheads to the front and spoil the party each time.

Lets see how most of us Palace fans act if (when) we beat The "Millwall Scum" or the "Brighton Faggots" and not forgetting the "Charlton Gypo's" and what is the name they call spurs fans...... Ahhh I guess that's ok and quite normal to call a guy born in London with English parents a racist Jewish name as I have heard on this BBS.
.I hope there's no bragging as well.

*Jack Regan has called no one anything in any of his posts just pointing how hypercritical "we" can be

Just because there are nations competing why has a bunch of English fans waving a Union Jack or St- Georges flag jumping up and down in victory looked upon as racist ?
Why cannot it be just simple flag waving and supporting your team ?

Ben H
04-09-2001, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Daddy Long
I can see Oz getting through. A Brazilian mate and avid follower of all world football is definite that should the Ozzies meet Brazil, the Ozzies would come out on top over 2 legs.

Was he on the funny stuff at the time?:rolleyes:

Oisin
04-09-2001, 10:10 PM
England can win the world cup but it is highly improbable a team with a ****e defence will do so.