PDA

View Full Version : And the first European team to qualify is...


Strathclyde Eagle
03-09-2001, 09:17 PM
There has already been one team which has won their World Cup qualifying group. It surprised me, and I imagine it would surprise everyone else, especially since they haven't played in the Finals for sixteen years.

The team? Poland

Anyone know who is likely to be next?

Sunny Fan
03-09-2001, 09:22 PM
What about France? ;)

Gooders
03-09-2001, 09:24 PM
Clever clogs!

Strathclyde Eagle
03-09-2001, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Sunny Fan
What about France? ;)

Has anyone got some firelighters and a match? It seems my bonfire has gone out. :D

Sunny Fan
03-09-2001, 09:28 PM
Ok, OK, I know that Italy and Spain are as near as dammit.
If Liechtenstein beat Spain and Austria overcome a 15 goal goal-difference deficit, Spain may be edged out...

Strathclyde Eagle
03-09-2001, 09:30 PM
I heard Jaffa was going to put 2p on it and get 100,000.56 back. :p

Jimbo ?
05-09-2001, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by Sunny Fan
Ok, OK, I know that Italy and Spain are as near as dammit.
If Liechtenstein beat Spain and Austria overcome a 15 goal goal-difference deficit, Spain may be edged out...


I have money this !!!
I tell you the odds are great!!!

Steve in Phoenix
05-09-2001, 02:44 AM
I cant believe that HOLLAND arent going. Not to mention Norway's decline and the possibility of Germany, Czech Rep, Brazil all missing out too. Mexico as well (not so great but they have almost always dominated Concacaf). I reckon there are going to be more surprises at this World Cup than before.

anti-addick
05-09-2001, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by Strathclyde Eagle
There has already been one team which has won their World Cup qualifying group. It surprised me, and I imagine it would surprise everyone else, especially since they haven't played in the Finals for sixteen years.

The team? Poland

Anyone know who is likely to be next?

Surprisingly the bottom of that group is Norway, having not won a single game. It's definately the weakest group, and Norway have been crap since hoof merchant Olsen left to take Wimpledon down (s******!)

CPFC_R_GREAT
05-09-2001, 03:09 AM
I'm also suprised at the amount of quality teams that may not make the finals!!

And whilst walking past the bookies earler for some reason England were 8/1 to win the World Cup :eek:

Marco
05-09-2001, 03:39 AM
Spain have qualified, I read somewher ethat they were the first European team to qualify but that might be wrong, and Italy will find it harder to not qualify than actually qualify, then again drawing away to Lithuania is a good way to start.

Argentina are going to win the World Cup anyway...

Steve in Phoenix
05-09-2001, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by anti-addick
Surprisingly the bottom of that group is Norway, having not won a single game. It's definately the weakest group,

Sorry I dont agree with you here. Not an outstanding group (Poland, Ukraine, Bielorussia, Wales, Norway, Armenia) but tough. I think England were lucky to avoid Poland in the draw - they are much better than they used to be. Ukraine boast one of Europe's best strikeforces and Bielorussia are hugely underestimated. Then Wales and Norway are surely some of the best teams at 5th/6th position in their respective groups.

For weakest group I nominate group 7 - Spain has to qualify against Bosnia, Israel, Austria and Liechtenstein. Thats almost as weak as the OFC (Ocenia). Who did they have to bribe to get such a piss-easy ride? And why does it seem they always get an easy group? (They havent technically qualified yet by the way Marco)

sydney eagle
05-09-2001, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix


Who did they have to bribe to get such a piss-easy ride? And why does it seem they always get an easy group? I was thinking that,they ALWAYS get an easy group....b@stards

Tor
05-09-2001, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix


Sorry I dont agree with you here. Not an outstanding group (Poland, Ukraine, Bielorussia, Wales, Norway, Armenia) but tough. I think England were lucky to avoid Poland in the draw - they are much better than they used to be. Ukraine boast one of Europe's best strikeforces and Bielorussia are hugely underestimated. Then Wales and Norway are surely some of the best teams at 5th/6th position in their respective groups.



Thanks for your support. This qualification has been the worst, ever!
No wins and 4 draws in 8 matches for us. Grim.

But I'll have to be fair to Semb (the coach). Since he took over from Olsen, he has a record of 20 wins, 14 draws and only 9 losses. That makes him the second best national coach in history. (in Norway).
But time to go for him now.

We're doin' Wales tonight, and I think this is it. We're notching our first 3-pointer.

And having said that, watch out for Poland. They're class. Emmanuel Olisadebe up front simply kicks @ss.

And cheers to England! The mauling of Germany was impressive. Way to go!

zonin2000
05-09-2001, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
Mexico as well (not so great but they have almost always dominated Concacaf). I reckon there are going to be more surprises at this World Cup than before.

Mexico's win in Jamaica will, i think turn out to be very significant. Although they had an atrocious start, I think that they can win their 3 remaining games. They are going to battle it out with Honduras (who are no pushovers, i know) but I think (hope!) that they will make it :p .

Marco
05-09-2001, 02:21 PM
Ah thanks Steve, its just that I'd read on the Gazzetta the title "Mendieta's goal takes Spain to the World Cup" but I guess it must be pretty hard for them not to qualify.

Poland do seem very impressive, the first ever "black" player to play for them is very good, but I cant see them featuring that highly in Japan.

Eagle of the East
05-09-2001, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Steve in Phoenix
I cant believe that HOLLAND arent going. Not to mention Norway's decline and the possibility of Germany, Czech Rep, Brazil all missing out too. Mexico as well (not so great but they have almost always dominated Concacaf). I reckon there are going to be more surprises at this World Cup than before.

Very surprising, especially when you consider teams from other parts of the world that have already qualified.

Senegal, of all teams being one!

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 05:29 PM
The World Cup is becoming almost as farcical as the Worthington Cup nowdays. The best teams should compete for the cup, and Im sorry if that means excluding some of the obscure Asian and African countries.

Cameroon, Nigeria, Senegal and Tunisia are through from the Central African Federation.

Korea and Japan have both qualified as hosts.

France as winners.

Poland as winners of Group 5.

I would choose a different system, whereby the top 20 countries in the World are entered, and then there is a World play-off system for the other 11 entries (Hosts are also given an entry)

As we already know, the Worlds number 7 team (Czech Republic) could be out, as could the number 10 team (Holland)

Germany (5) and Denmark (18) could also be out, not to mention England (15)

But we have the Senegalese (66), so thank god for that.

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 05:47 PM
If you add up the World Rankings of each group, I know it is flawed logic, but the higher the number the easier the group. However, as we have 6 teams in some groups and 5 in others, then it would be fairer to work out Average World Ranking.

So here goess

Group 1 - Av. 67

Group 2 - Av. 56

Group 3 - Av. 61

Group 4 - Av. 65

Group 5 - Av. 63

Group 6 - Av. 68

Group 7 - Av. 65

Group 8 - Av. 48

Group 9 - Av. 43

So Groups 8 and 9 were the groups of death

Oisin
05-09-2001, 06:00 PM
Jaffa, I can't see the point of a World Cup which doesn't have representation from all over the world. The beauty of the competition is there is interest from everywhere. Also I don't trust those Fifa rankings.

Tor
05-09-2001, 06:03 PM
Actually, I believe we'd have a better picture of which group is tougher if you averaged the top four teams in each group.
Some really low-end rankings have too much influence on the av.ratings.

Smurph
05-09-2001, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Oisin
Also I don't trust those Fifa rankings.

Don't trust those Fifa Rankers!!!

hong_kong_hg
05-09-2001, 06:05 PM
Absolute poppycock Jaffa. Why doesn't FIFA simply organise a world international league then, so all the best deams play in the premier etc. :rolleyes:

Sunny Fan
05-09-2001, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by hong_kong_hg
Absolute poppycock Jaffa. Why doesn't FIFA simply organise a world international league then, so all the best deams play in the premier etc. :rolleyes:
Agree, I for one love matches such as Iran vs USA, which wouldn't happen if qualification was on rankings only.
The end result is to find out the best team over the competition, but the first round stages are superb. OK, you do get some mismatches, but it's the world game and by including so-called smaller nations the tournament gains as a truly global event. The Dutch haven't proved themselves good enough to qualify this time (albeit from a very difficult group) and shouldn't assume they have a right to participate. FIFA can never get the balance exactly right, but I'm all for their efforts to broaden the global appeal of the game.

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 06:17 PM
There should be some form of internationalistion in the qualifying proceedure, if you dont wish to do what I proposed.

It isnt fair that many of the big teams arent getting to the finals, purely because Europe is so strong in comparison to the rest of the World.

It would be like regionalising English football, would you like to be demoted to Division 2 in order that some national diversity is achieved throughout the Divisions. Or a better example still, in the FA Cup, we have to play the Arsenals, Chelseas, Tottenhams etc of the World as part of the "London" group, whilst the South West group consists of Torquay, Plymouth, Exeter etc, end result being the same.

Sunny Fan
05-09-2001, 06:21 PM
I think maybe that UEFA should get their seeding sorted out a bit better. However, The Netherlands just weren't good enough, and that's that. I'd rather something like the current system prevails, so that teams from outside Europe are given the opportunity to improve (which they tend to be doing), thereby raising the quality of the game world-wide. FIFA is not there to protect traditionally good footballing nations but to increase the popularity and quality of the game on a global level.

Gooders
05-09-2001, 06:22 PM
There's always at least one very strong European country that fails to qualify.

In recent years it's been Spain, us, Holland, us, France and...us.

That's the way the cookie crumbles. Holland have the ability to win it on their day - they know it and we know it. But they've always had a fragile confidence and it's their own fault they've failed, nobody else's.

g23
05-09-2001, 06:24 PM
At first I thought it odd that Toryboy was criticising what is essentially a 'free-market' competition to qualify. It's purely performance-related, after all. Then I realised that he was actually in favour of competition, but only among the historically priveliged football nations, and Senegal could go feck itself. That's when it all made sense.

Spanish Dan
05-09-2001, 06:31 PM
I can see your point Jaffa, but what would be the point in the World Cup if it essentially had the same teams as the European Championships plus Argentina and Brazil? I think teams like South Korea are fantastic to watch even if they may not be as good as a lot of European teams.

And anyway, your analogy with the FA Cup is not entirely correct. If it was weighted like the World Cup then the winner of the South West group would have to play a play-off against the 3rd placed midlands team whereas the London group would have 5 qualifiers into the next round.

wedgetail
05-09-2001, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
The World Cup is becoming almost as farcical as the Worthington Cup nowdays



As we already know, the Worlds number 7 team (Czech Republic) could be out, as could the number 10 team (Holland)

But we have the Senegalese (66), so thank god for that.

The world rankings are a nonesense The Czech Republic at 7 is a joke, they are rubbish and would not qualify from concacaf, the weakest zone.

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 06:48 PM
Dont Toryboy me g23,

What is wrong in seeking equilibrium for all within the competition. It isnt fair that the hardest game we played was Germany(5), or Netherlands had Portugal (9), when Senegal had to play Morroco (29), Egypt (38), Namibia (98) and Algeria (73)

If the top 32 teams were picked, this years World Cup would have
(the figures in brackets are guaranteed World Cup places for that Federation)

19 European Teams (UEFA) (13)
4 South American Teams (CONMEBOL) (4)
1 Asian Team (AFC) (0)
5 Central and North America Teams (CONCACAF) (3)
3 African Teams (CAF) (5)
0 Oceania Teams (OFC) (0)

Therefore with regards to overall equality, only CAF (Confederation African Football) would loose out on guaranteed places.

Because the league tables could change upto the time of the World Cup, lets look at positions 33-38 who could all force there way into the top 32. 4 African (CAF) teams, 1 South American (CONMEBOL) team, and 1 European (UEFA) team.

Sunny Fan
05-09-2001, 06:57 PM
OK, disregarding the fact that the FIFA rankings are rubbish (they could be better worked out, so let's assume that), how would the world arrange games competitively between competitions to work out who would be top of the pile? At the moment it's through qualifying competitions, but if you turned it into quasi-friendly matches, it would turn into a logistical nightmare with individual federations cherry-picking games to up their global position. I can't se any way around it, unless we stick with qualifying and give Europe an enormous advantage, which I certainly don't want. The rest of the world is catching up, and that's a good thing.

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail


The world rankings are a nonesense The Czech Republic at 7 is a joke, they are rubbish and would not qualify from concacaf, the weakest zone.

Well Concacaf isnt the weakest zone, OFC is definitely weaker, and AFC is weaker as well.

I happen to think that the rankings system is quite fair, it awards points based on the standard of opposition and not just 3 for a win etc. Similarly, points are awarded for goals scored, there are bonuses for away wins and finally the status of the match varies the points awarded, so a friendly isnt as valid as a WCQ.

Secondly, the Czech Republic are not rubbish, ok they are sitting in 3rd in the Group, but they have been pretty creditable with 14 points. There U-21 team sits atop of the U-21 Group 3, so they seem to have youth strength. They reached the final of Euro 96, they were the first team to qualify for Euro 2000 with an unbeaten record, and previous to the breakup to CR and Slovakia, they won the 1976 Euro championships.

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 07:07 PM
I believe that every International team should have to play say 12 friendlies in a year, excluding competition years (like WC, EuroChamps, African Nations, etc)

These should be drawn out of the hat every year, and then the relevant points appropriated to the game as per FIFA rankings.

Sunny Fan
05-09-2001, 07:22 PM
Still no guaranteee for the big countries I'm afraid. In fact I'd imagine it may skew the rankings further than they are already, especially if ther're picked out of the hat.
I honestly can't see a sytem working better than the current one, but more importantly I truly believe that the game is richer for the participation at the highest level of nations from as many areas as possible.

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 07:27 PM
But as my workings showed, only Africa would have less guaranteed positions in the World Cup and they had 4 who were on the brink of being able to get in.

So the diversity issue doesnt really wash.

Sunny Fan
05-09-2001, 07:28 PM
PS: Take the example of a country like Senegal. I imagine that at present their national federation struggles to afford to play away matches in Africa. Are you suggesting that Senegal should instead face some 6 away trips a year all over the world?

g23
05-09-2001, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
Dont Toryboy me g23

Just a playful dig based on the twin facts that you are fairly young and fairly(:D ) right wing. Sorry if it unduly offends.

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 07:30 PM
Yes.

Spanish Dan
05-09-2001, 07:30 PM
Jaffa - your workings don't add up. If you add up all the allocated places in brackets you get 25. Given that France plus the 2 hosts have qualified, that still leaves 4 places unaccounted for. What about the play-off that the Oceania winner gets, I'd imagine they'd be pretty peeved to lose that.

Sunny Fan
05-09-2001, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
But as my workings showed, only Africa would have less guaranteed positions in the World Cup and they had 4 who were on the brink of being able to get in.

So the diversity issue doesnt really wash.
The diversity issue is crucial to the whole argument. If it weren't for the fact that FIFA has encouraged smaller nations to participate in the past, Africa would not have 4 countries within this top 32. I imagine that Nigeria and South Africa may have managed to scrape in by now, but few others.
The very policy of allowing Asian, African, Central American and Caribbean teams better chances of qualification has improved their standard of football so that they can now challenge the previous elites of Europe and the Southern Cone. That has been my argument all along, which maybe I haven't explained clearly enough in previous posts.

Jaffa
05-09-2001, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Spanish Dan
Jaffa - your workings don't add up. If you add up all the allocated places in brackets you get 25. Given that France plus the 2 hosts have qualified, that still leaves 4 places unaccounted for. What about the play-off that the Oceania winner gets, I'd imagine they'd be pretty peeved to lose that.

1 UEFA 2nd Placed team vs the Winner of 2nd place vs 2nd place of the two AFC qualification group

OFC Winners vs 5th Placed CONMEBOL team

and accidentally I put AFC as (0) when it should be (2)

Steve in Phoenix
05-09-2001, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Jaffa
What is wrong in seeking equilibrium for all within the competition. It isnt fair that the hardest game we played was Germany(5), or Netherlands had Portugal (9), when Senegal had to play Morroco (29), Egypt (38), Namibia (98) and Algeria (73)


Senegal's group still has an average of 60 in the world ranking which is very close to Hollands group average of 56. They had to qualify the hard way so lets not underestimate them. Morocco and Egypt despite their low rankings are two of Africa's football powerhouses and to qualify ahead of them was phenomenol. Senegal had to beat Morocco and Egypt in their last 3 games and then scored 5 goals against Namibia to win the group on goal difference.

zonin - I am pretty sure that Honduras will qualify, they are in great form and confidence after their excellent tournament in S.America and now beating USA. Mexico arent out yet, they will probably take third and I fear it could be at a demoralized USA's expense as Jamaica and Costa Rica arent pushovers. I was commenting more on how Mexico are struggling in a group that they used to dominate so easily.

Imagine how much worse the situation would be if the World Cup hadnt expanded to 32 teams. Really does show how the game has expanded in just a decade. However I do think that Europe has been very generous and practically the only federation not to threaten a boycott if it didnt get more places, despite arguably having the best case.

Eagle of the East
05-09-2001, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by wedgetail


The world rankings are a nonesense The Czech Republic at 7 is a joke, they are rubbish and would not qualify from concacaf, the weakest zone.

Take it you never watched them in Euro 2000 then? :rolleyes:

The Czechs are a very strong team.

Eagle of the East
05-09-2001, 11:27 PM
Have to agree with Jaffa in that its unfair that a lot of very good European teams (and South American too an extent) miss out at the expense of lesser Asian/African teams.

Having said that, if it were not for this diversity, the World Cup would just be an exanded version of the European Championship and a lot of the magic would be lost.