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I.Flyer
29-12-2001, 01:01 PM
Heard some of a discussion on the radio last night about gay footballers which I found very thought provoking. The general consensus was that it wont be too long before a footballer from one of the top clubs ‘comes out’. Alan Smith (yes, that one!), Craig Brown and Max Clifford were the guests. AS said he didn’t have any problem with ‘gays’ in football and in fact he almost signed such a player (a South African) back in 1994 but the player failed the medical. AS said it would not worry him about signing such a player for a club.

Craig Brown said he had never had any issues with it in Scotland i.e. never came across it.

Max Clifford said he believed a gay player would be in for a very hard time (his words, not mine) and clubs would avoid such a situation as much as possible. His suggestion would be to create a fake identity i.e. the player being photographed out and about with young ladies on his arm.

Alan Smith said that it would not be the players at the top of their profession i.e. the ones who scored/saved lots of goals, etc. who would have a problem with the chairmen/clubs/fans. They would be accepted but that it would be a different story for any average player who admitted he was gay. I tend to agree with him here. Can you imagine the opposition fans reaction.

Incidentally, this might be an opportune moment for me to come out. NO, NO, I am not gay but I am female and a mature female at that (a sin in a lot of eyes). :grrr: :eek: :(

I have been on the BBS for a year now and I am quite often referred to as Mr Flyer. Mostly, I have not corrected this misconception as I believe, rightly or wrongly, that my views would be better received if I was thought of as male. I have met a few BBSers and have always had a good reception from them except one who, funnily enough, was about the same age as myself.

sydney eagle
29-12-2001, 01:23 PM
never thought I'd see the day where I agreed with one Alan smith:eek: but he's right here.If the bloke is a class footballer what difference does his sexuality make?

E.X Moontoad
29-12-2001, 02:36 PM
I would hazard a guess that the reason we have not seen (apart from Justin Fashanu) any professional footballer 'come out' as gay is not so only the stick he would get from opposition fans,but how he would be treated by his own teammates. Football is a world where certain macho/masculine values such as toughness,loyalty and being 'one of the lads' dominate. How many times have we heard the phrase 'Football is a mans game'? Any behaviour perceived as effeminate or 'different' such as reading the Guardian, collecting antiques or even reading the music press is treated with suspicion and liable to have the player labelled a 'poof' by his teammates.Therefore you can see why any gay players are reluctant to come out.Best to keep quiet rather than being treated as an outcast.
Anyway it would be interesting to see what would happen if a top level player came out as unlike racism and hooliganism the subject of gay footballers/homophobia is (because of the reasons above?) one that we've barely scratched the surface with.

I.Flyer
29-12-2001, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by E.X Moontoad
I would hazard a guess that the reason we have not seen (apart from Justin Fashanu) any professional footballer 'come out' as gay is not so only the stick he would get from opposition fans,but how he would be treated by his own teammates. ......

The general consensus of the discussion was that the one group it would not be a problem with would be his team mates. It would probably be their view that he was there to do a job and his sexuality was of no consequence provided he did his job properly.

I am not sure I agree with this though.

AJ
29-12-2001, 04:58 PM
Of course there are probably many gay people in football today. Any player, Manager, Coach or Chairman who seems to avoid the opposite sex is a candidate.
Personally, I don't care either way, as long as the person is trying to do a job.

I think as a man, I could be a lesbian:p :p

Gark Moldberg
29-12-2001, 05:43 PM
My mind's on a diffrent level. As AS was at Palace in '94, I'm trying to think who the South African would have been.

Ben H
29-12-2001, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Gark Moldberg
My mind's on a diffrent level. As AS was at Palace in '94, I'm trying to think who the South African would have been.

I can't remember the name of the player but I do know that we didn't sign him because the medical showed him to be HIV+.

Latvian Eagle
30-12-2001, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by Ben H


I can't remember the name of the player but I do know that we didn't sign him because the medical showed him to be HIV+.

:eek:

Also, without causing scandal or getting anyone in trouble, I've always thought Matt Jansen was a bit the other way, still think he's a great player though.

Ben H
30-12-2001, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle


:eek:

Also, without causing scandal or getting anyone in trouble, I've always thought Matt Jansen was a bit the other way, still think he's a great player though.

Mmmm:moo:

Psychokiller
30-12-2001, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by I.Flyer


I have been on the BBS for a year now and I am quite often referred to as Mr Flyer. Mostly, I have not corrected this misconception as I believe, rightly or wrongly, that my views would be better received if I was thought of as male. I have met a few BBSers and have always had a good reception from them except one who, funnily enough, was about the same age as myself.
That's because you had a pic of Dougie as your avatar! We all thought you were a young Scotsman! ;)

sexyrazor
31-12-2001, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Latvian Eagle


:eek:

Also, without causing scandal or getting anyone in trouble, I've always thought Matt Jansen was a bit the other way, still think he's a great player though.

I can assure you he isn't :eek:

Ben H
31-12-2001, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by sexyrazor


I can assure you he isn't :eek:

Been there have we?;)

sexyrazor
31-12-2001, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by Ben H


Been there have we?;)

Worn the t-shirt!!!;)

No Matt was at Palace when I worked there and at Xmas Parties and functions there was always a lady on his arm!!

Latvian Eagle
31-12-2001, 02:12 AM
I stand corrected

Mat ov CPFC
31-12-2001, 02:22 AM
My wife works with a very attractive young Lady who stepped out with Matt Jansen whilst he was with the club. But I also understand that he was a Church goer and was an intelligent lad so perhaps thats how such rumour start, proving the point made by my Poll tax rioting chum PK !

As for the footballers being Gay, well I would not care if we had 11 curtain choosing, limp wristed trans gender Lady-boys playing as long as they gave 100% effort and we won games :)

As for the players reaction, well I guess it would be the same as mine ie if the person proved themselves on the football pitch it would not matter but it would be interesting to see if there was any conflict between Black footballers and the Gay person. From what I know, the African-Caribean segment of our society are not famous for the tolerance of our 'Pink' friends and I wonder if they would carry over onto the pitch ? Now that would pose a moral dilema for our Wishy washy types. :D

Psychokiller
31-12-2001, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
From what I know, the African-Caribean segment of our society are not famous for the tolerance of our 'Pink' friends and I wonder if they would carry over onto the pitch ? Now that would pose a moral dilema for our Wishy washy types. :D
That's a myth. Only the minority, gangsta rap types have got a problem with homosexuals. I've got gays, lesbians and blacks in my social circle and there's never been any animosity. Normally it's sexually confused teenagers or Millwall fan type neanderthals who have a problem with queers.

Mat ov CPFC
31-12-2001, 03:06 AM
PK,

I dont know that many Black or Gay people to be able to argue with you but I can only base my assumption on what I have read in the papers about the level of homophobic attacks carried out in pre-dominately Black areas and the reports of rioting in Jamican prisons that was caused by the issuing of condems to 'Normal' prisoners because of the increase in HIV infections.

Still I am willing to accept its just a myth and put it down to the Media just trying to stir up ****.

Psychokiller
31-12-2001, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by Mat ov CPFC
PK,

I dont know that many Black or Gay people to be able to argue with you but I can only base my assumption on what I have read in the papers about the level of homophobic attacks carried out in pre-dominately Black areas and the reports of rioting in Jamican prisons that was caused by the issuing of condems to 'Normal' prisoners because of the increase in HIV infections.

Still I am willing to accept its just a myth and put it down to the Media just trying to stir up ****.
Possibly in Jamaica where attitudes are different, I can well believe it.

Over here we seem to be more accepting thank god.

Feather
31-12-2001, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Gark Moldberg
My mind's on a diffrent level. As AS was at Palace in '94, I'm trying to think who the South African would have been.

Sizwe Moatang?

eagle mart
31-12-2001, 01:26 PM
This is strange, I heard (from a footballer)of two Prem footballers that were either 'coming out' or were going to be 'found out.' One of them plays for England and the other is a quite well known player. I wouldn't have mentioned it, until I read this thread.

No, I'm not going to broadcast their names.

ammiller
31-12-2001, 01:52 PM
When Cloughie found out about Justin Fashanu being spotted in a Gay club in Nottingham, he called him in and asked...

BC: What do expect to get when you go to a Bakers?

JF: Bread Boss.

BC: What do you expect to get when you go to a dairy?

JF Milk Boss.

BC: Then what the hell were you doing in that gay club the other night???

charltonhater
31-12-2001, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by I.Flyer
I have been on the BBS for a year now and I am quite often referred to as Mr Flyer.


Whoops. I apologise and have since edited my post in which I called you Mr Flyer.

I.Flyer
31-12-2001, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Psychokiller

That's because you had a pic of Dougie as your avatar! We all thought you were a young Scotsman! ;)

I sometimes feel like a young Scotsman, or Englishman .... :love: ;)

Charltonhater - thanks for the apology but partly my fault.

31-12-2001, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Feather


Sizwe Moatang?

Sizwe Motaung died of AIDS last August....

Sick Bucket
31-12-2001, 07:00 PM
I don't have a problem with queers at all, but unfortunately in football I think you'd be well advised to keep it quiet, look how Justin Fashanu ended up, tragic.
Mrs flyer I think the best thing about the BBS is the fact you have such a wide range of people and fews. Surely the beauty of a bulletin board is that every man, woman or child can voice his or her opinions.

Ben H
01-01-2002, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by eagle mart
This is strange, I heard (from a footballer)of two Prem footballers that were either 'coming out' or were going to be 'found out.' One of them plays for England and the other is a quite well known player. I wouldn't have mentioned it, until I read this thread.

No, I'm not going to broadcast their names.

I heard it was Sol Campbell and Roberti di Matteo. Not saying it is though.

Daniel_Nash
02-01-2002, 04:44 AM
Interesting thoughts.. i am surprised that there are not more gay sportsmen/women, publically anyway. I am sure that if one or two big names from different sports came out then it would be seen as a bit more acceptable but leaving professional sport to be the domain of the heterosexual does leave itself open to prejudice.

I've heard Sol Campbell's name in the same sentence as "gay footballer", but it was probably started by malicious Spurs fans (which i am not, malicious that is).

Also, i have heard a few times from someone who worked closely with a very famous promoter that Mr Lewis MBE (i think he is MBE now) was actually gay, but tried to hide it by being a heavyweight boxer. Not saying for sure that is the case, but i have heard stories.

sexyrazor
02-01-2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Ben H


I heard it was Sol Campbell and Roberti di Matteo. Not saying it is though.

I thought Di Matteo was married with children (not that that matters nowadays of course:rolleyes: )

Cleon
02-01-2002, 03:44 PM
Funnily enough, the Campbell and Di Matteo rumours have been doing the rounds this morning. I suspect it's a load of tosh though - Campbell has been accused of it ever since, coincidentally, he joined Arsenal. I've met Di Matteo, and his partner Zoe, along with his son. Not saying it isn't possible, just unlikely.

There is a lot of bigottry still in football - look at the dinosaurs that still exist in lower divison management. And the very sad fall and fall of Justin Fashanu is probably the reason it all continues to remain under wraps.

Daniel_Nash
02-01-2002, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Cleon
Campbell has been accused of it ever since, coincidentally, he joined Arsenal.

He has a house near to my school, it was up for sale but (as far as i know) it isn't anymore. I heard that he wanted to remain in the South East because there was "someone special" in his life who wouldn't leave. Could be a woman of course, but given the choice of Arsenal, Barcelona or Inter... i think i would have moved abroad.

Dave
02-01-2002, 03:50 PM
From what I know, the African-Caribean segment of our society are not famous for the tolerance of our 'Pink' friends

Dear God Mathew your joking right? You don't really believe that do you?

Dartford Lad
02-01-2002, 03:57 PM
I can remember reading something a while back about Ian Brightwell and Ian Bishop being caught together in 1990 I think it was, after they had played in Man City's 5-1 win over Man United.

Bishop was shipped out to West Ham soon after...

brb rule
02-01-2002, 04:09 PM
Well would u want 2 share a shower with a queer.

Ben H
02-01-2002, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Dartford Lad
I can remember reading something a while back about Ian Brightwell and Ian Bishop being caught together in 1990 I think it was, after they had played in Man City's 5-1 win over Man United.

Bishop was shipped out to West Ham soon after...

It was Trevor Morley and Ian Bishop. Morley's wife walked in and caught them at it and basically stabbed Morley, putting him in hospital.

Dean Gordon and Brian Deane (when both at Boro) is another rumour.

Essexeagle
02-01-2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Dave


Dear God Mathew your joking right? You don't really believe that do you?

Unfortunately it is still true in parts of inner city London (where the black/jamaican culture is prevalent)

I know lots of 'ragga culture' (for want of a better phrase) black people who live in my area and they are incredibly homophobic.

I also know plenty of people who have lived in Jamaica and I most certainly would not advise anyone to go there and say they were gay.

As for Di Matteo - there were stories about Ken Bates not wanting to sign him for said reasons, but I think both they and the rumours are untrue

Sol is just malicious Spurs fans, but it has been a half decent fleet street rumour for a good while now that Mr Lewis is gay. Not that that should cause any problem as surely sexuality isn't a part of boxing - its a surprisingly unmacho sport at heavyweight.

Besides boxing is a blood sport that allowed a man who was HIV positive to fight professionally.

Celestial Empire
02-01-2002, 05:04 PM
With the number of Lennox Lewis (un) sympathisers around, especially in the ranks of the US heavyweights/promoters, this sounds like another malicious rumour.

Ben H
02-01-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Celestial Empire
With the number of Lennox Lewis (un) sympathisers around, especially in the ranks of the US heavyweights/promoters, this sounds like another malicious rumour.


I know, it probably is. Just because Lennox hasn't been married umpteen times and fathered 10 kids all by different mothers, as seems the trend in heavyweight boxing, he's deemed to be batting for the other side. I think more likely is that he's been so dedicated to his career for so long that he hasn't had time to settle down with anyone. Anyway, he has been seen out with women on the odd occasion.

JohnA
02-01-2002, 05:35 PM
Strange an Afro-Caribbean footballer who played against us a few seasons ago had an attraction for another player & sent him flowers.

This story got around to one of my pals who mercilessly barracked him when he came near us during the game.

I too don't care a monkeys for a player's sexuality. As for the shower room business - I have held membership at a gym just north of the City. I don't know why but it was incredibly popular with obviously gay people (you know the type, who look and act that they have come from Central Casting). After a while one just adapts to them being there and pay no attention, even the time one of them started trying to chat me up in the Sauna I just shut up his attempts with a smart line.

I am damn full sure no "pink" player would do anything untoward that might offend his team mates, if he did the merciless verbal comments back at him would cause him no end of grief.

Ben H
02-01-2002, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by JohnA
Strange an Afro-Caribbean footballer who played against us a few seasons ago had an attraction for another player & sent him flowers.

This story got around to one of my pals who mercilessly barracked him when he came near us during the game.


Which player was this John?

sfchapman
02-01-2002, 05:53 PM
I think it's pretty sad that players cant come out. I would hope the majority of supporters at Palace are mature enough to deal with it and then even forget about it.

sfchapman
02-01-2002, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by brb rule
Well would u want 2 share a shower with a queer.


Do you think that a gay guy would want to share with you!?!

Do gay blokes have no self control at all when around you. Wow, you learn something new everyday on here!

Skin Up
02-01-2002, 06:04 PM
Scott Dixon a youth team player at Arsenal is openly gay, so it will be interesting to see what reaction he gets if/when he breaks into the 1st team.

Supa Ol
02-01-2002, 06:14 PM
Is this corroboration of the rumour on today's Mediawatch page on Football365?

Worst Mental Picture Of The Festive Season
"Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink just comes across the face of Sol Campbell there" - Andy Gray on Sky Sports (why does he never say anything that interesting in his Football365 column?)

g23
02-01-2002, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Daniel_Nash
Also, i have heard a few times from someone who worked closely with a very famous promoter that Mr Lewis MBE (i think he is MBE now) was actually gay, but tried to hide it by being a heavyweight boxer. Not saying for sure that is the case, but i have heard stories.

What a great idea! Makes me jealous though - if I were gay and wanted to hide it, I think I'd just become Olympic 100 metres champion. Never realised it was so easy!

sfchapman
02-01-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Skin Up
Scott Dixon a youth team player at Arsenal is openly gay, so it will be interesting to see what reaction he gets if/when he breaks into the 1st team.


Does the guy get any hassle from other players or fans?

Good luck to him and I hope he isn't tagged by the media as "Gay football Scott Dixon" as they do with so many others. They wouldn't say "Black footballer Clinton Morrison" or "Jewish footballer Ronnie Rosentall" etc!

El Aguila
02-01-2002, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by g23


What a great idea! Makes me jealous though - if I were gay and wanted to hide it, I think I'd just become Olympic 100 metres champion. Never realised it was so easy!
Thank you g - so many laughs in just two and a half lines. I salute your comic genius.

g23
02-01-2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by El Aguila
Thank you g - so many laughs in just two and a half lines. I salute your comic genius.

Don't thank me, thank my army of 100 monkeys on 100 typewriters. They had to come up with something funny in the end. Now that the experiment has been successful, I'm moving on to cats.

Daniel_Nash
02-01-2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by g23


What a great idea! Makes me jealous though - if I were gay and wanted to hide it, I think I'd just become Olympic 100 metres champion. Never realised it was so easy!

Yeah, real funny *slow clap*

Celestial Empire
06-01-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by sfchapman



Does the guy get any hassle from other players or fans?

Good luck to him and I hope he isn't tagged by the media as "Gay football Scott Dixon" as they do with so many others. They wouldn't say "Black footballer Clinton Morrison" or "Jewish footballer Ronnie Rosentall" etc!

No, Rosenthal was called "Israeli international Ronnie etc..."
Clint is called "Irish international Clint etc.."
Scott Dixon is called "son of Lee Dixon, long time Arse servant etc.."
:rolleyes:

Jules
14-01-2002, 06:03 PM
Of all the openly gay blokes I've ever met, not one has been remotely interested in football.

Are the two "interests" mutually exclusive? I'm sure the answer is "no", but just wondered if anyone had a similar experience.

Are any BBSers prepared to come out?

firesign
14-01-2002, 06:13 PM
In my last job I worked with a gay bloke who very well liked. He didn't support a particular team but was very into the World Cup when it was on and always joined us down the pub to watch games. We also played the odd game and the chap in question was no worse than the rest of us.

g23
14-01-2002, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by firesign
In my last job I worked with a gay bloke who very well liked. He didn't support a particular team but was very into the World Cup when it was on and always joined us down the pub to watch games. We also played the odd game and the chap in question was no worse than the rest of us.

Sorry, but I thought this was hilarious!