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glaziers fan
20-08-2008, 02:24 AM
Speroni

Hill
McCarthy
Fonte
Butterfield

Derry
Soares
Carle

Moses
Scowcroft
Scannell

Subs:

Freedman
Watson
Ertyl
Hills
Dayton/Djilali

Hedgehog
20-08-2008, 02:49 AM
Looks good to me.

weh8millwall
20-08-2008, 06:14 AM
Freedman off the bench for Oster or Andrew and you have it spot on.

OneSize
20-08-2008, 06:21 AM
-------------Speroni------------
Butterfield -- Fonté -- Hill -- Hills
--------------Derry------------
---------Soares -- Carle--------
Scannell ---------------- Moses
--------------Andrew-----------

Djilali, Fletcher, Oster, Lawrence, Thomas

Garfy
20-08-2008, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
Speroni

Hill
McCarthy
Fonte
Butterfield

Derry
Soares
Carle

Moses
Scowcroft
Scannell

Subs:

Freedman
Watson
Ertyl
Hills
Oster/Andrew


Sadly I think you've got two hopes of Dougie & Ben on the bench.

stevek
20-08-2008, 08:00 AM
It's not going to happen, but I'd have

Speroni
Butterfield Fonte Hill Hills
Derry Flectcher
Scannell Carle Moses
Andrew

Psychokiller
20-08-2008, 08:07 AM
Parkin, Pemberton, Burke, Pardew, Hopkins, Nebbeling, Dyer, Thomas, Bright, Wright, Barber. Subs: Pennyfather, Salako

Mickey Gilley
20-08-2008, 08:20 AM
---------------Speroni-------------

Butterfield ---Fonte--McCarthy---Hill

-----------------Derry--------------
---------Soares--------Carle--------

---Oster-------Scowcroft------Moses

Bench: Hills, Ertyl, Scannell, Andrew, Lawrence

stevek
20-08-2008, 08:28 AM
When did the 'y' get added to Ertl's name?

cpfcfan1
20-08-2008, 08:34 AM
Lawrence will be in there for Fonte anyway.

Owngoal
20-08-2008, 08:39 AM
---------------Speroni-------------

Butterfield ---Fonte--McCarthy---Hills

-----------------Derry--------------

-------Watson----------Carle--------

Oster----------Scowcroft------Moses

Bench: Scannell, Hill, Soares, Andrew, Dayton

milky87
20-08-2008, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Psychokiller
Parkin, Pemberton, Burke, Pardew, Hopkins, Nebbeling, Dyer, Thomas, Bright, Wright, Barber. Subs: Pennyfather, Salako

What?????????????????????

No Rudi Hedman?

GreatGonzo
20-08-2008, 09:06 AM
-----------------Speroni--------------
-------McCarthy--Fonte--Hill----------
Butterfield---------------------Wiggins
------------------Derry---------------
------Watson--------------Carle------
-----------Scannell---Moses----------

We can but dream.

CHERRY TREE BRB
20-08-2008, 10:27 AM
Speroni

Butterfield
Lawrence
Hill
Wiggins

Derry
Carle
Soares
Scanell

Scowcroft
Moses

Subs: Hills, Fonte, Oster, Griffit, Ifill

doogleboy
20-08-2008, 10:35 AM
Speroni

Hills
Fonte
McCarthy
Butterfield

Djilali
Fletcher
Soares
Scannell

Moses

Scowcroft/Collins John

Subs:

Lawrence
Carle
Derry
Andrew
Thomas

Radders
20-08-2008, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Psychokiller
Parkin, Pemberton, Burke, Pardew, Hopkins, Nebbeling, Dyer, Thomas, Bright, Wright, Barber. Subs: Pennyfather, Salako


Not sure about Pennyfather!!

limited_edition
20-08-2008, 10:49 AM
----------- Speroni

Butts --- Fonté --- McCarthy --- Clint

Oster --- Derry --- Carle --- Griffit

------------ Moses

-------------------- Scowie

Subs: Hills, Soares, Djilali, Scannell, John ?

cdm61
20-08-2008, 11:09 AM
----------- Speroni

Butts --- Fonté --- McCarthy --- Clint

Oster --- Derry --- Carle --- Griffit

------------ Moses

-------------------- John

Subs: Hills, Soares, Djilali, Scannell, Scarecrow

stevek
20-08-2008, 11:21 AM
Which unsigned John are people picking as we've been linked with two. (And Stern John good, Collins John bad imho.)

Matt_Hep
20-08-2008, 11:24 AM
.

milky87
20-08-2008, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Matt_Hep
.

Do you really think this would be a good team? :D

NorthernEagle80
20-08-2008, 11:26 AM
Speroni
Butts Lawrence McCarthy Hill
Scannell Derry Carle Soares Moses
Scowcroft

If it was me:

Speroni
Butts McCarthy Fonte Hills
Derry Fletcher Carle
Djilali Moses Scannell

Matt_Hep
20-08-2008, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by milky87
Do you really think this would be a good team? :D

Why not!? I've seen this type of formation adopted on the continent and it's worked wonders..

limited_edition
20-08-2008, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by stevek
Which unsigned John are people picking as we've been linked with two. (And Stern John good, Collins John bad imho.) Collins. After all, given he's on trial, he's the more likely of the two to sign for us. Although, I wouldn't say no to Stern John, either. Has a decent goalscoring ratio at the Saints, is big, strong and powerful enough to hold it up as a targetman.

stevek
20-08-2008, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by limited_edition
Collins. After all, given he's on trial, he's the more likely of the two to sign for us. Although, I wouldn't say no to Stern John, either. Has a decent goalscoring ratio at the Saints, is big, strong and powerful enough to hold it up as a targetman.

Yes - I'd not seen the bit about him playing for the reserves tonight when I posted.

If we sign Collins John I hope I'll be proved wrong; but all the reports I've heard from Fulham fans, plus his spell at Watford last year, suggest to me he'd be an awful signing.

Il Padrino
20-08-2008, 12:03 PM
Is John on trial for us? I took the qout to mean NW wanted to see him in a reserve game for fulham

stevek
20-08-2008, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Il Padrino
Is John on trial for us? I took the qout to mean NW wanted to see him in a reserve game for fulham Someone posted he was playing for our reserves tonight.

FromSelhurst
20-08-2008, 01:47 PM
---------------------------- speroni

butterfield ------ mccarthy ----- hill ------ hills

---------------------------- derry
------------ watson --------------------- carle
---------------------------- moses

------------------ scowcroft ---- scannell

UEAgle
20-08-2008, 02:03 PM
4-2-3-1

GK: Speroni

RB: Butterfield
CB: Fonte
CB: Hill
LB: Hills

DM/CM: Derry
DM/CM: Soares

AMR: Djilali
AML: Moses
AMC: Carle

CF: Scannell

Subs: Flahavan, Ertl, Smith, Andrew, Scowcroft

UEAgle
20-08-2008, 02:06 PM
---------------Speroni---------------

Butterfield-----Fonte-----Hill-----Hills

----------Derry-----Soares----------

Djilali-----------Carle------------Moses

---------------Scannell---------------

Beanie
20-08-2008, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by stevek
Someone posted he was playing for our reserves tonight.
I think it was a conclussion drawn from the fact that Fulham's reserves next play a few hours before the window closes. A touch late for a deal, unless of course we wait a week, which is an international break any way, sign him as an "emergency loan" and make it permanent in January.

peagle
20-08-2008, 02:31 PM
Speroni
Butterfield
McCarthy
Fonte
Hill
soares
Carle
Scannel
Oster
Andrews

Subs: Moses, Fletcher, Hills, Scowcroft, Ertle

Matt_Hep
20-08-2008, 02:54 PM
Very poor teams when you conisder it could have been this

.........................Speroni.................. ......
Butterfield......Hudson......Fonte....Hills....... ......

...........................Derry................
.............Soares..............Watson........... ...

.........Moses..........................Scannell.. ......
........................Morrisson................. ......

Freedman on the bench

Could've potentially been the best ball-playing team we've seen at Palace for years, shame we've got long ball now.

OneSize
20-08-2008, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
-----------------Speroni--------------
-------McCarthy--Fonte--Hill----------
Butterfield---------------------Wiggins
------------------Derry---------------
------Watson--------------Carle------
-----------Scannell---Moses----------

We can but dream.
Swap McCarthy with Ertl and i think you have a quality team. I loved it when we played wing backs under bruce and midfielders pulling the strings through the middle. I pray one day for a Moses/Scannell front two

UEAgle
20-08-2008, 03:08 PM
3-5-2 went out with the Dodo.

It's rubbish.

stevek
20-08-2008, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by UEAgle
3-5-2 went out with the Dodo.

It's rubbish. Agreed.

peagle
20-08-2008, 03:29 PM
I think we might as well try 3-5-2 at this time! That team might be quite interesting actually!

<_tece_>
20-08-2008, 04:53 PM
TEAM 1

If we want to change the atmosphere dragging us down at the moment, be more exciting and create some chances:

--------------- Speroni ---------------
Butts --- Fonte --- McCarthy --- Hills
---------- Soares --- Derry -----------
Djilali ---------- Carle --------- Moses
-------------- Scowcroft --------------

TACTICS: Trying to pass on deck a bit more, ie, not aiming for and isolating Scowcroft up front on his own. Whatever it takes, get Carle in the game.


TEAM 2

If we want to keep it the same, play sh1t, and not score:

--------------- Speroni ---------------
Butts -- Lawrence -- McCarthy -- Hill
---------- Carle ---- Derry -----------
Scannell ------ Soares -------- Moses
-------------- Scowcroft --------------

TACTICS: Hoof it up to Scowcroft at every opportunity, and pray that his flick-ons go in the direction of one of the wingers' runs, and/or that the referee doesn't whistle for a foul against him. Defence (full-backs included) are not allowed past the half-way line.


NB/ Irrespective of the two teams above, I think that changing the tactics will make more of a difference than changing the personnel. We could play 'Team 2', and still play well if the playing style is right; unfortunately I think the temptation of Lawrence unsuccessfully hoofing it to Scowcroft will prove too much. Hence Lawrence out of Team 1.

stevek
20-08-2008, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by <_tece_>
TEAM 1

If we want to change the atmosphere dragging us down at the moment, be more exciting and create some chances:

--------------- Speroni ---------------
Butts --- Fonte --- McCarthy --- Hills
---------- Soares --- Derry -----------
Djilali ---------- Carle --------- Moses
-------------- Scowcroft --------------

TACTICS: Trying to pass on deck a bit more, ie, not aiming for and isolating Scowcroft up front on his own. Whatever it takes, get Carle in the game.


TEAM 2

If we want to keep it the same, play sh1t, and not score:

--------------- Speroni ---------------
Butts -- Lawrence -- McCarthy -- Hill
---------- Carle ---- Derry -----------
Scannell ------ Soares -------- Moses
-------------- Scowcroft --------------

TACTICS: Hoof it up to Scowcroft at every opportunity, and pray that his flick-ons go in the direction of one of the wingers' runs, and/or that the referee doesn't whistle for a foul against him. Defence (full-backs included) are not allowed past the half-way line.


NB/ Irrespective of the two teams above, I think that changing the tactics will make more of a difference than changing the personnel. We could play 'Team 2', and still play well if the playing style is right; unfortunately I think the temptation of Lawrence unsuccessfully hoofing it to Scowcroft will prove too much. Hence Lawrence out of Team 1.

I actually think the problem with both your teams in delivering your preferred tactics (with which I agree) is the balance in the midfield.

<_tece_>
20-08-2008, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by stevek
I actually think the problem with both your teams in delivering your preferred tactics (with which I agree) is the balance in the midfield.

What do you think the balance should be? :cool:

stevek
21-08-2008, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by <_tece_>
What do you think the balance should be? :cool: I don't think you can play Carle and Soares together in a three man midfield. They both are at their best pushing forward, while we need two midfielders ready to come back and take the ball off the centre backs - otherwise hoofing becomes the only option. Ideally, that would be Derry and Watson; and if not Watson, then Fletcher. Or even Jamie Smith.

<_tece_>
21-08-2008, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by stevek
I don't think you can play Carle and Soares together in a three man midfield. They both are at their best pushing forward, while we need two midfielders ready to come back and take the ball off the centre backs - otherwise hoofing becomes the only option. Ideally, that would be Derry and Watson; and if not Watson, then Fletcher. Or even Jamie Smith.

I remember you saying this on another thread now.

I believe Jamie Smith is one of the 'best going forward brigade' as well though.

Jim Cannons Moustache
21-08-2008, 09:02 AM
why did Jamie Smith not play for the stiffs last night?

stevek
21-08-2008, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by <_tece_>
I believe Jamie Smith is one of the 'best going forward brigade' as well though. Oh - ok. Only seen him once (against Bromley in the pre-season). Ertl would, of course, be another option.

GreatGonzo
21-08-2008, 09:26 AM
The midfielders only need to come and take the ball off the defenders if the defenders are unable to play football.

Ertl, Fonte, Hills, Wiggins, Butterfield are all able to play a pass and the need for 2 deep midfielders is removed.

OneSize
21-08-2008, 09:26 AM
James Comley?

Owngoal
21-08-2008, 09:41 AM
After last nights reserves where Fonte was immense he must start (also was captain of reserve team). Ben Watson should be playing unless his transfer is imminent. Djilali should be on the bench, he could do a brilliant last 20 minutes. Dougie and Kuqi should never get near the first team again.

Ron Dogers
21-08-2008, 09:46 AM
It's all about balance.

4 man defence, 2 full backs who can cross the halfway line and pass the ball to feet apart from defending - 2 centrebacks, ideally a heading monster and a faster reader of the game.

4 man mid, a toughy, a paser, a runner who can drift wide and one out and out winger who can tuck back in when defending.

Up front it's a mobile lump and a poacher to feed off it .....easy really

stevek
21-08-2008, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
The midfielders only need to come and take the ball off the defenders if the defenders are unable to play football.

Ertl, Fonte, Hills, Wiggins, Butterfield are all able to play a pass and the need for 2 deep midfielders is removed.

They still need someone to pass to - if all the other players are marked or miles away, there's no choice but to hoof.

GreatGonzo
21-08-2008, 10:21 AM
Assuming we have 11 V 11 on the pitch and players who do not stand like statues there should never not be an option for a pass, especially from the defenders, even if that pass is back to the goalkeeper.

Palaceboy222
21-08-2008, 10:52 AM
---------------SPERONI!!!!

Butterfield---Fonte---McCarthy---Hills

-------Watson--Derry--Carle

Scannell--------------------Moses

-------------Andrew

Subs:

Djali (sp)
Dayton
Scowcroft
Ertl
Hill

Not going to happen though

cpfcfan1
21-08-2008, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Palaceboy222
-----------------Kiraly

Butterfield---Fonte---McCarthy---Hills

-------Watson--Derry--Carle

Scannell--------------------Moses

-------------Andrew

Subs:

Djali (sp)
Dayton
Scowcroft
Ertl
Hill

Not going to happen though

Kiraly in goal? :eek:

GreatGonzo
21-08-2008, 11:03 AM
Maybe that is Burnleys team cos Andrew Watson and Hills have just about as much chance of starting for us as Kiraly :D

Palaceboy222
21-08-2008, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
Maybe that is Burnleys team cos Andrew Watson and Hills have just about as much chance of starting for us as Kiraly :D :D

|I did say it wouldn't happen didn't I?! I'll change it now, oops! :D :o

Baldy
21-08-2008, 11:26 AM
Speroni

Ertl
Fonte
McCarthy
Hills

Carle
Derry
Watson
Scannell

Moses
Andrew

Randomly Random
21-08-2008, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by stevek
It's not going to happen, but I'd have

Speroni
Butterfield Fonte Hill Hills
Derry Flectcher
Scannell Carle Moses
Andrew

Absolutely spot-on stevek, would love to see this exact team myself!!!!! I've suggested this team in previous threads and honestly believe it could work. It would provide enough defensive cover and with both full backs pushing on we maintain some width.

However, with Fletch now transfer-listed, maybe Ertl to partner Derry would be the one change (along with Andrew if we bring in a new striker)...

GreatGonzo
21-08-2008, 01:12 PM
3-2-3-1 went out with the Dodo

Its absolutely rubbish ;)

Randomly Random
21-08-2008, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
3-2-3-1 went out with the Dodo

Its absolutely rubbish ;)

You're right, playing with nine outfield players is rubbish indeed... ;)

GreatGonzo
21-08-2008, 01:36 PM
lol

Fair point, trying to be smart works better without typos lol

Beanie
21-08-2008, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by stevek
I don't think you can play Carle and Soares together in a three man midfield. They both are at their best pushing forward, while we need two midfielders ready to come back and take the ball off the centre backs - otherwise hoofing becomes the only option. Ideally, that would be Derry and Watson; and if not Watson, then Fletcher. Or even Jamie Smith.
With a midfield three you can't afford two defensive midfielders unless you expect to defend most of the game (FA Cup away at The Emirates perhaps). Derry obviously should be available, and it would be up to the full backs to be available as well. If none of those three can get free then it might be necessary to go a little more direct if only to relieve the pressure we'd be under.

PauLo
21-08-2008, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Palaceboy222
---------------SPERONI!!!!

Butterfield---Fonte---McCarthy---Hills

-------Watson--Derry--Carle

Scannell--------------------Moses

-------------Andrew

Subs:

Djali (sp)
Dayton
Scowcroft
Ertl
Hill

Not going to happen though

This is what i'd be happy with.

Randomly Random
21-08-2008, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Beanie
With a midfield three you can't afford two defensive midfielders unless you expect to defend most of the game (FA Cup away at The Emirates perhaps). Derry obviously should be available, and it would be up to the full backs to be available as well. If none of those three can get free then it might be necessary to go a little more direct if only to relieve the pressure we'd be under.

Agreed Beanie, hence the idea of four attackers in three (central one being Carle) behind one centre-forward.

A lot of top teams play this way, Inter Milan, Real Madrid - although Real have a more attack minded player in the two defensive midfielder positions being Guti. We could play with Derry and Ertl who I'm sure would push forward, as would Fletcher...

stevek
21-08-2008, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Randomly Random
Absolutely spot-on stevek, would love to see this exact team myself!!!!! I've suggested this team in previous threads and honestly believe it could work. It would provide enough defensive cover and with both full backs pushing on we maintain some width.

However, with Fletch now transfer-listed, maybe Ertl to partner Derry would be the one change (along with Andrew if we bring in a new striker)...

Thanks for the support! I think I've bought in Hills and Scannell for McCarthy and Oster from the team I suggested for the previous week - and I take your point about Fletcher/Ertl. I know it was only Hereford, but the only 45 minutes of football we've looked good in this season was playing that formation.

GreatGonzo
21-08-2008, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by stevek
Thanks for the support! I think I've bought in Hills and Scannell for McCarthy and Oster from the team I suggested for the previous week - and I take your point about Fletcher/Ertl. I know it was only Hereford, but the only 45 minutes of football we've looked good in this season was playing that formation.

You are as bad a ranieri!

Settled team is what you want not 2 or 3 changes every match ;)

This isn't Football Manager! :D

stevek
21-08-2008, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
You are as bad a ranieri!

Settled team is what you want not 2 or 3 changes every match ;)

This isn't Football Manager! :D

No, no - you've got to use the youngsters sparingly and not overplay them :)

kolinkins
21-08-2008, 03:34 PM
So Stevek's anti-Soares agenda is in over-drive I see - first Fletcher and now ever Ertl wanted ahead of him?

stevek
21-08-2008, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
So Stevek's anti-Soares agenda is in over-drive I see - first Fletcher and now ever Ertl wanted ahead of him?

It's not an anti-Soares agenda at all. I just think he and Carle shouldn't be playing together in a three man midfield. I made that observation before the start of the season and nothing I've seen so far this season has changed my view.

Il Padrino
21-08-2008, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by stevek
It's not an anti-Soares agenda at all. I just think he and Carle shouldn't be playing together in a three man midfield. I made that observation before the start of the season and nothing I've seen so far this season has changed my view.

I'd agree from what I've seen. Fletcher and derry would allow Carle to concentrate just on attacking.

Although a fully fit Soares putting a few more tackles in could work

kolinkins
21-08-2008, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by stevek
It's not an anti-Soares agenda at all.

Please, you've convinced yourself for a while that he isnt a central midfielder, and any praise he deserved in the 2nd half of last season was given conditionally and begrudgingly by you.

Originally posted by stevek
It's not an anti-Soares agenda at all. I just think he and Carle shouldn't be playing together in a three man midfield. I made that observation before the start of the season and nothing I've seen so far this season has changed my view.
Well yes, the season being all of two games old (I know nothing of the Preston game, who played etc for other reasons, but still, we're only 2 games into the season)

Warnock must feel they can play together. I'm with the manager until further notice.

stevek
21-08-2008, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
Please, you've convinced yourself for a while that he isnt a central midfielder, and any praise he deserved in the 2nd half of last season was given conditionally and begrudgingly by you.


Well yes, the season being all of two games old (I know nothing of the Preston game, who played etc for other reasons, but still, we're only 2 games into the season)

Warnock must feel they can play together. I'm with the manager until further notice.

Rubbish. Just because I am capable of seeing some things wrong in Soares' play, unlike you, doesn't mean I am anti-Soares. Indeed, I have defended him many times. And I can't see what was conditional or begrudging about the praise I gave in the second half of last season - rather I said we'd found a formation that suited his strengths.

As you say, Warnock must feel they can play together. However, on the evidence of three games I have my concerns (after all - three England managers in a row have thought Gerrard and Lampard can play together when it's blatantly clear to everyone else they can't). And if we're all just going to say 'I'm with the manager until further notice' then there's no point in 'Team for x' type threads is there?

kolinkins
21-08-2008, 04:01 PM
Of course there is a place for Team for x threads. It's about which teams we'd like to see. It's just when people would rather start putting a defender who can play in midfield in the team ahead of a key player in our recent success, it becomes a bit laughable

Adam_Eagle
21-08-2008, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Palaceboy222
---------------SPERONI!!!!

Butterfield---Fonte---McCarthy---Hills

-------Watson--Derry--Carle

Scannell--------------------Moses

-------------Andrew

Subs:

Djali (sp)
Dayton
Scowcroft
Ertl
Hill

Not going to happen though

The only spot on team I would do as well ever on here.

stevek
21-08-2008, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
Of course there is a place for Team for x threads. It's about which teams we'd like to see. It's just when people would rather start putting a defender who can play in midfield in the team ahead of a key player in our recent success, it becomes a bit laughable

Interesting that you have personalised this against me when I wasn't even the person who suggested playing Ertl. There's nothing 'laughable' about taking the view that the balance of our midfield at the moment is not working.

limited_edition
21-08-2008, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
So Stevek's anti-Soares agenda is in over-drive I see - first Fletcher and now ever Ertl wanted ahead of him? It's based on tactical analysis rather than favoritism. You wouldn't understand. If it gets the best out of our playmaker, Carle, then it's worth considering.

glaziers fan
21-08-2008, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by stevek
It's not an anti-Soares agenda at all. I just think he and Carle shouldn't be playing together in a three man midfield. I made that observation before the start of the season and nothing I've seen so far this season has changed my view.

Well said. Same position isn't it?

Kolinkins said we'd play differently to accommodate both.

We have. We've played shit.

glaziers fan
21-08-2008, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by limited_edition
It's based on tactical analysis rather than favoritism. You wouldn't understand. If it gets the best out of our playmaker, Carle, then it's worth considering.

:D Spot on again limited_edition!

I asked Kolinkins several times how we would play with Soares and Carle in the team. This has been the result. We've played shit cos Soares goes missing/it affects the team more when he's got a deeper role.

Sadly, it's Soares or Carle, unless Carle can play elsewhere but I've hear he's not great out wide.

glaziers fan
21-08-2008, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by stevek
Interesting that you have personalised this against me when I wasn't even the person who suggested playing Ertl. There's nothing 'laughable' about taking the view that the balance of our midfield at the moment is not working.

Going for the personal attacks again is he? Why can't he just tell us what Soares brings to the team?

He's crap on the right. Then we're told he's not a right midfielder which is correct.

He then plays centre mid in a 4 and is rubbish. Then he plays attacking mid in a central 3 which works.

He then plays centre mid in between an attacking mid (Carle) and a defensive mid (Derry) and it doesn't work!

So the analysis is that he can't play that role. Therefore Soares is not a box-to-box midfielder. He's not a right midfielder. And he can't play in a midfield 4. He's an attacking midfielder to play in a central 3 who can run around a bit.

Finished.

(Although surprisingly enough I actually think he's just about ok on the left mid in a 5 cos he can cut in to good effect and he has the athleticism to get up and down.)

UEAgle
21-08-2008, 05:13 PM
God this is boring. If you're playing you're best team, Soares has to be in it.

limited_edition
21-08-2008, 05:15 PM
A major part of the reason it clicked for Soares in the 2nd half of last season was that he had a great understanding with Watson. They'd interchange positions frequently. One would hold, and the other bomb on. And vice versa. He has no such understanding with Carle. Nicky's a different sort of player, anyway to Ben. He does more damage in the last 3rd rather than starting moves from deep.

In the absence of Watson, Carle is our only playmaker. Unless he has several stinkers, he ain't being dropped anytime soon. Neither is Derry as our capt and best shielding midfielder. That leaves Soares. We either get the other more offensive players to adapt to the way our new playmaker plays, or we change the system and personel.

UEAgle
21-08-2008, 05:16 PM
4-2-3-1

David
21-08-2008, 05:33 PM
----------------SPERONI---------------------

McCARTHY-----FONTE-----HILL--------HILLS

-----SOARES------DERRY--------MOSES-----

----------------CARLE------------------
---------SCANNELL------ANDREW-------

kolinkins
21-08-2008, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by limited_edition
A major part of the reason it clicked for Soares in the 2nd half of last season was that he had a great understanding with Watson.

Which took (a long) time to develop. The Soares-Carle combo has been given all of what, 2 games?

glaziers fan
21-08-2008, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by limited_edition
A major part of the reason it clicked for Soares in the 2nd half of last season was that he had a great understanding with Watson. They'd interchange positions frequently. One would hold, and the other bomb on. And vice versa. He has no such understanding with Carle. Nicky's a different sort of player, anyway to Ben. He does more damage in the last 3rd rather than starting moves from deep.

In the absence of Watson, Carle is our only playmaker. Unless he has several stinkers, he ain't being dropped anytime soon. Neither is Derry as our capt and best shielding midfielder. That leaves Soares. We either get the other more offensive players to adapt to the way our new playmaker plays, or we change the system and personel.

Disagree. The reason Soares played so well at end of last season was because Watson sat deeper and won more of the ball and was more involved, firing off quick passes, allowing Soares to get forward.

In 90% of a match, Soares was further forward than Watson. Soares' biggest strength, apart from his running off the ball, which frankly any athlete could do, is his running at defenders and involvement just outisde the box in central areas. He's very good here and he's getting better with his runs into the box too.

Good player, but he doesn't fit the formation with Carle there now.

rbarmy
21-08-2008, 05:55 PM
Manager Owen Coyle has revealed his attempts to strengthen Burnley's defensive options have so far failed.
The Clarets boss had tried to sign two defenders without success and he admitted he is still undecided on his first-choice back four.
"We've been thwarted once or twice this week, but we'll continue that search," Coyle told BBC Radio Lancashire.
"We want to add some depth in that backline, as well as adding a little bit of quality."

Hmmm.... sounds promising!

They have conceded seven goals in their first two games

limited_edition
21-08-2008, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by kolinkins
Which took (a long) time to develop. The Soares-Carle combo has been given all of what, 2 games? Even if they'd been together 10 games, and we signed Marcos Senna in the window, you'd be making reasons about why Soares should play instead of him. He never has a bad game according to you. So why should we take your Soares views seriously when it's stevek and others that provide tactical analysis why it's not working, whereas you provide none on what makes Tom so undroppable.

rbarmy
21-08-2008, 06:06 PM
For what it's worth, I thought that they were starting to gel in the second half at Preston - until Carle was subbed, Soares looked creative and dangerous

GreatGonzo
21-08-2008, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by David
----------------SPERONI---------------------

McCARTHY-----FONTE-----HILL--------HILLS

-----SOARES------DERRY--------MOSES-----

----------------CARLE------------------
---------SCANNELL------ANDREW-------

Not enough width down the right hand side as McCarthy will not come forward, i would also swap Moses and Carle but thats just me.

The interesting thing is people who are putting what they would like to see, no-one has put the Watford team, no-one has put the Preston team, most have changed formation in some way. Lawrence has been dropped from most of the teams and so has Scowcroft, the majority hadbrought Fonte into the startying line up. Roll on Saturday!

Falco
21-08-2008, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by GreatGonzo
Not enough width down the right hand side as McCarthy will not come forward, i would also swap Moses and Carle but thats just me.

The interesting thing is people who are putting what they would like to see, no-one has put the Watford team, no-one has put the Preston team, most have changed formation in some way. Lawrence has been dropped from most of the teams and so has Scowcroft, the majority hadbrought Fonte into the startying line up. Roll on Saturday!

So long as it is more the Watford team than the Preston team, I will be happy.

ZOHAR
21-08-2008, 07:41 PM
Scannell is injured so most likely this...

Speroni
Butterfield - Lawrence - McCarthy - Hill
Oster - Soares - Carle - Derry - Moses
Scowcroft

Ron Dogers
21-08-2008, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by ZOHAR
Scannell is injured so most likely this...

Speroni
Butterfield - Lawrence - McCarthy - Hill
Oster - Soares - Carle - Derry - Moses
Scowcroft

And our tactics will be 93 mins of boshing it up for Scowy to win/lose the ball (* delete as appropiate based on match fitness) and flick it on to ???????????????????????????????????????

Adam_Eagle
21-08-2008, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by ZOHAR
Scannell is injured so most likely this...

Speroni
Butterfield - Lawrence - McCarthy - Hill
Oster - Soares - Carle - Derry - Moses
Scowcroft

Dispair. You are probably right with that one.At home to Burnley as well.

cpfcfan1
21-08-2008, 08:33 PM
Scannell is fit according to the adder..

Gilbert07
22-08-2008, 01:06 AM
Speroni

Butts
Fonte (Must start every game, was outstanding last season... Lawrence is no-where near his standard imo)
McCarthy
Hill

Derry
Soares
Carle

Moses
Scowie
Oster

.....................

Griffit
Andrew
Lawrence
Thomas
Scannell/Hills

Raoul Duke
22-08-2008, 06:31 AM
Speroni

Butts Fonte Hill Hills

Oster Derry Carle Griffit

Scowcroft Moses

Subs: Dijali, Soares, Andrew, Ertl and McCarthy

Griffit to make his debut but I wouldn't mind if Dayton or Dijali played in his place.

Scowcroft did enough last season to be given an opportunity to improve his form and fitness.

Scannel would feature on the bench inplace of Dijali if fit.

limited_edition
22-08-2008, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by ZOHAR
Scannell is injured so most likely this...

Speroni
Butterfield - Lawrence - McCarthy - Hill
Oster - Soares - Carle - Derry - Moses
Scowcroft Yep, like it or not I reckon he'll pick this side. :(

But hopefully, we'll see the likes of Scannell (or Djalili if Sean is injured) and Griffit on the bench. I'd like to see Djalili on the bench anyway even if SS is fit. We need as many attacking options on the bench as possible for a game we surely must be looking to win. But I reckon NW will have a brain meltdown and put 2 defenders on the bench against the CCC whipping boys. :(

stevek
22-08-2008, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
Disagree. The reason Soares played so well at end of last season was because Watson sat deeper and won more of the ball and was more involved, firing off quick passes, allowing Soares to get forward.

In 90% of a match, Soares was further forward than Watson. Soares' biggest strength, apart from his running off the ball, which frankly any athlete could do, is his running at defenders and involvement just outisde the box in central areas. He's very good here and he's getting better with his runs into the box too.

Good player, but he doesn't fit the formation with Carle there now.

Absolutely spot on.

Jim Cannons Moustache
22-08-2008, 09:26 AM
Whoever is in the team I just hope we get the ball down on the floor to the feet of Moses, Carle, Scannell even Oster, all players who if we get the ball to their feet in space can cause havoc.

It was only 3 home league games ago we destroyed Burnley playing some fantastic football, lets get it down and do the same again. PLEASE.

limited_edition
22-08-2008, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Jim Cannons Moustache
Whoever is in the team I just hope we get the ball down on the floor to the feet of Moses, Carle, Scannell even Oster, all players who if we get the ball to their feet in space can cause havoc.

It was only 3 home league games ago we destroyed Burnley playing some fantastic football, lets get it down and do the same again. PLEASE. Hear, hear. We played some great stuff that day. Not just pretty, but highly effective. We could have had 8 that day.

glaziers fan
22-08-2008, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by limited_edition
Hear, hear. We played some great stuff that day. Not just pretty, but highly effective. We could have had 8 that day.

ben watson's best game in a palace shirt.

milky87
22-08-2008, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by glaziers fan
ben watson's best game in a palace shirt.

Apart from every game against Millwall

Owngoal
22-08-2008, 10:17 AM
Best game of last season against Burnley, greatest atmosphere and crowd 25 years ago.......

Could be our kickstart to the season

TurkeyTwizzler
22-08-2008, 11:39 AM
I miss Ben Watson.

He has never said he doesnt want to play for us... Just that he wants a new challenge, be it now or when his contract is up next season.

NW making another balls-up with this one.

Its like Man U not playing Ronaldo all season just because he said he wants to play for another club and have another challenge. Its just not worth what you are missing out on for that season just to make a point.

Well, Neil, point taken.... but point wrong.

jhc
22-08-2008, 11:51 AM
Sounded like Scannell was a doubt this morning, with a back problem that hasn't cleared up yet.

Justy C
22-08-2008, 11:57 AM
jhc - any rumours of Webber or Geary joining?

Randomly Random
22-08-2008, 12:02 PM
Kolinkins - It was me who suggested Ertl, not stevek, because he can play (apparently, according to reports etc.) as defensive midfielder as well as a right back, even though his favoured position is as a centre-back.

Suggesting the formation I did (4-2-3-1) would mean there is no place for Soares, not because I have a negative opinion of him, just that he would not fit into the formation suggested. The two defensive players would sit in front of the back four and Soares is not a defensive midfielder. Potentially, he could play in the middle of the attacking midfield three, where he could utilise his attacking talents. However, Carle is a much better option in that position.

I don't think anyone has anti-Soares agenda's... It's all opinions which we are all entitled to. This is why I like threads like this and contributing to them because it is all about us sharing our opinions on what we think is the best team. Just because we omit a player does not mean we dislike them.

Some people have suggested Scrowcroft in their best teams, I disagree with this but that's the point I'm trying to make, it's all opinions. I'm sure no-one has any real negative thoughts towards me or others omitting him.

:)

glaziers fan
22-08-2008, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by milky87
Apart from every game against Millwall

that's a given;)

glaziers fan
22-08-2008, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Randomly Random
Kolinkins - It was me who suggested Ertl, not stevek, because he can play (apparently, according to reports etc.) as defensive midfielder as well as a right back, even though his favoured position is as a centre-back.

Suggesting the formation I did (4-2-3-1) would mean there is no place for Soares, not because I have a negative opinion of him, just that he would not fit into the formation suggested. The two defensive players would sit in front of the back four and Soares is not a defensive midfielder. Potentially, he could play in the middle of the attacking midfield three, where he could utilise his attacking talents. However, Carle is a much better option in that position.

I don't think anyone has anti-Soares agenda's... It's all opinions which we are all entitled to. This is why I like threads like this and contributing to them because it is all about us sharing our opinions on what we think is the best team. Just because we omit a player does not mean we dislike them.

Some people have suggested Scrowcroft in their best teams, I disagree with this but that's the point I'm trying to make, it's all opinions. I'm sure no-one has any real negative thoughts towards me or others omitting him.

:)

Exactly. Some people are getting very defensive with regards to Tom. No-one's saying he's a bad player. I think he's actually very good as an attacking centre-mid in a 3.

But we've signed Carle, who plays in the same position, and he's a better player.

On top of that, we're trying to accommodate Soares in the box-to-box position and it's just not working. :(

Soares will be a great option for the bench. He's got energy and I think maybe it'll focus his mind to get involved for all the time he's on the pitch if he's a sub.

jhc
22-08-2008, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Justy C
jhc - any rumours of Webber or Geary joining?

Sorry, nothing to report on those two I'm afraid.
As you'd expect, NW is keeping his cards close to his chest. This morning he said he hopes to make a signing but that clubs are holding out until the end of the transfer window.
I'd be surprised if there's not some activity next week, but it could go right to wire at midnight on monday week!
Having 4 players available for transfer, I'd expect there to be outgoings as well.

glaziers fan
22-08-2008, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by jhc
Sorry, nothing to report on those two I'm afraid.
As you'd expect, NW is keeping his cards close to his chest. This morning he said he hopes to make a signing but that clubs are holding out until the end of the transfer window.
I'd be surprised if there's not some activity next week, but it could go right to wire at midnight on monday week!
Having 4 players available for transfer, I'd expect there to be outgoings as well.

freedman, kuqi, fletcher, ifill

but not watson?

macstar
22-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Speroni

Butterfield Fonte McCarthy Hill

Oster Carle Derry Hills

Scowcroft Freedman


no pace up front, but hey ho!

milky87
22-08-2008, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by macstar
Speroni

Butterfield Fonte McCarthy Hill

Oster Carle Derry Hills

Scowcroft Freedman


no pace up front, but hey ho!

When you have a brain like Freedmans you don't need pace

doogleboy
22-08-2008, 01:58 PM
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo

Subs:

Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo
Moo

macstar
22-08-2008, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by milky87
When you have a brain like Freedmans you don't need pace exactly. he'd do a job at the moment.

oster and hills on the flanks for pace.

jhc
22-08-2008, 02:01 PM
glaziers fan

freedman, kuqi, fletcher, ifill

but not watson?


__________________

Those 4 players have been made available. The difference with Watson is that the club really would prefer not to let him go IMO.
They will only let him go if they get a suitable offer.
NW has decided to make a stand on this issue because he does want to see another 'Hudson' situation.
Players that he wants to retain won't be allowed to go into the last year of their contracts without a new one being agreed. He doesn't want to see players leave on a 'Bosman' for nothing, and then have to go out and spend £500,000 on a replacement!
A get a feeling something will have to 'give' if Ben is still here in September.

Latvian
22-08-2008, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by milky87
When you have a brain like Freedmans you don't need pace

Yes, just look at his goal return... :afro:

milky87
22-08-2008, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Latvian
Yes, just look at his goal return... :afro:

It must be really easy playing 10 minutes here and there :rolleyes:

Look at his record at Leeds.

People can say it is a lower level and all that crap but he done the business and made a player on here who many want us to sign look ameteur (Leeds fans words)

Ready Teddy
22-08-2008, 02:33 PM
Kuqi has a better strike rate that Freedman, why dont we bring him back? Dougie has been long passed it, whens the last time he played a decent game? Its not hard to work out we went flying up the league last year as soon as he went on loan, make of that what you will....

UEAgle
22-08-2008, 02:37 PM
--------------------Speroni--------------------

Butterfield-----Lawrence-----McCarthy-----Hill

Ifill-----Derry-----Ertl-----Fletcher-----Freedman

-------------------Scowcroft------------------

ZOHAR
22-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Team news

Sean Scannell is touch and go about making the side after struggling with a back strain that sidelined him from Saturday's loss at Preston.

Kieran Djilali, 17, is set for a bench appearance after impressing manager Neil Warnock. "Kieran is playing better than anyone at the club at the moment - I wanted to name him on the bench for the Preston game but we already had three attacking players as subs. I want to bring players like Kieran through."

Burnley's Scotland U21 midfielder Kevin McDonald could be handed his debut. Northern Ireland pair Martin Paterson and Michael Duff and Scotland defender Graham Alexander will have fitness tests.

http://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=82&story=4022

Jay_Palace
22-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by UEAgle
--------------------Speroni--------------------

Butterfield-----Lawrence-----McCarthy-----Hill

Ifill-----Derry-----Ertl-----Fletcher-----Freedman

-------------------Scowcroft------------------

What a phenomenally uninspiring line up!

kolinkins
22-08-2008, 03:03 PM
I think it was sarcastic

From knowing nothing of how we were at Preston, I'd like to see (but we wont see):

Speroni

Butts
Fonte
McCarthy
Hill


Derry

Soares
Carle

Scannell
Moses

Scow


Ertl, Lawrence, Djilali, Andrew, Oster

Super-Ste-Cious
22-08-2008, 06:58 PM
http://www.cpfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Shop/0,,10323~1314162,00.html

Scannell (along with Flahavan) will be in the club shop prior to tomorrows game - to me suggests Sean hasnt recovered in time.

glaziers fan
22-08-2008, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by ZOHAR


Kieran Djilali, 17, is set for a bench appearance after impressing manager Neil Warnock. "Kieran is playing better than anyone at the club at the moment - I wanted to name him on the bench for the Preston game but we already had three attacking players as subs. I want to bring players like Kieran through."


http://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=82&story=4022

Neil, you're the one who chose to play a left back as left winger leaving moses on the bench, signing a journeyman to fill another spot in the team, and putting another overweight liability on the bench in the form of Paul Ifill.

Quite frankly, Moses should have been in the team and Dijilali should have been ahead of Ifill, Oster and Hills!

pauldrulez
22-08-2008, 08:31 PM
I can see:

--------Speroni----------
Butts Lawro Paddy Hill
-----------Derry----------
----Soares-----Carle----
Moses--------------Oster
--------Scowcroft---------

I would like:
Speroni
Butts Fonte McCarthy Hill
------------Derry-------------
----Soares-----Carle-------
Moses------------------Djalili
-----------Andrew------------

Subs:
Griffit
Scow
Oster
Lawrence
Hills

wedgetail
22-08-2008, 08:38 PM
Speroni

Butterfield
Fonte
McCarthy
Hills

Derry
Soares
Carle

Scannell
Moses

Andrew

Subs:

Djilali
Hills
Ertl
Dayton
Flahavan

AJ
22-08-2008, 08:48 PM
Add Watson to the midfield, go to 4-4-2 and we may have a half decent team.

wedgetail
22-08-2008, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by AJ
Add Watson to the midfield, go to 4-4-2 and we may have a half decent team.
That would be my choice but I can't see it happening

danpalacefan5
22-08-2008, 09:26 PM
My team would be:

Speroni
butterfield
fonte
McCarthy
Wiggins
Derry(C)
Carle
Oster
moses
Andrew
griffit

subs:
Djilali
hill
Ertl/Flahavan
scrowcroft
soares

thefox
22-08-2008, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by milky87
When you have a brain like Freedmans you don't need pace

not much point having a brain up front if there is no one quick enough to be ahead of you.

thefox
22-08-2008, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Jay_Palace
What a phenomenally uninspiring line up!

I think he was taking the piss.

thefox
22-08-2008, 10:25 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see 442 tomorrow and looking like scanell is injured

speroni

butterfield lawrence mcarthy hill

ifill/soares carle derry oster/soares/hills

scowcroft moses

Or

speroni

butterfield lawrence mcarthy hill

derry

carle soares/moses/freedman soares/hills/oster

Scowcroft Scanell/moses


but want to see

speroni

butterfield fonte lawrence/ertl hill

SOARES/oster/moses carle derry hills/oster/MOSES

scowcroft/ANDREW moses/SCANELL

dijali
andrew
freedman
ertl
oster

cpfcfan1
22-08-2008, 10:29 PM
Got a feeling griffit could start tomorrow, to try and add more to our team.

Latvian
25-08-2008, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by milky87
It must be really easy playing 10 minutes here and there :rolleyes:

Look at his record at Leeds.

People can say it is a lower level and all that crap but he done the business and made a player on here who many want us to sign look ameteur (Leeds fans words)

I know it hurts to admit it Milky but he is passed it. He needs to move on. Its like Soares scoring a very important goal a decade ago ;)